IceCap

Yes, but you're forgetting the very important fact that they're not the right color dollars. I mean, I've never even heard of most of those Presidents. Why do I have to be out of likes? Well played sir, well played.

Seattle may not even get a basketball team, and without that there's no arena deal. Kansas City has never been a solid draw for the NHL, and the arena doesn't need an anchor tenant to survive anyway. Also, no local ownership group. Quebec City has hordes of educated, passionate fans ready to plunk down hundreds of dollars each for season tickets, a local, stable ownership group, a state of the art NHL calibre arena set to open in two years, and a serviceable hockey rink that can house the team in the interim. Also Winnipeg made cash hand over fist for the league, despite being a small, seemingly insignificant (to some people) market. So why not do that again and make even more money?

That logo's only associated with failure because the storyline it was introduced in was terrible.

That stung bro Though I think WCW's failure is more associated with the version in the thread's first post. This one, to me anyway, is associated more with the company's rise then fall.

I'm so glad we rushed a stupid ass realignment out of the gate to accommodate a now non-existent market. It's cliched by this point, but what the hell. OTGDNHL

Wouldn't that just make sense though?

I like the old guy wearing the Picasso Coyote hat. "I hear that young Jerome Roanoke has a bright future ahead of him."

Oh boy. All I said was Liberty Island was in NJ's waterway, I didnt say who owned what..... Seriously, what do I need to do to get out of this argument? Can I send you some money or something? You brought it up buddy.

That Quebec Coyotes logo isn't half bad.

Well as important as the Montreal AAA hockey team was to hockey history I think the Red Wings have made the winged wheel logo their own thing Not to mention it technically sits in NJ's waters. From the National Park Service: You didnt contradict anything I said above. It still sits in NJ's waters even though NY has jurisdiction over the Island. Jurisdiction trumps territory. The US embassy in London's in the UK's territory but it's still American land. It's more or less an easement granted to the given country. And I didnt say anything trumped anything. Stop devolving this further into semantic stupidity. It's not semantics. If a government has jurisdiction over a piece of land, then that land is theirs. Therefore the Statue of Liberty is in New York because the land it's on falls under the State of New York's jurisdiction.

No one's begrudging you for simply not liking it. It's that your stated reasons came off as misinformed. Had you just said "I don't like the Red Wings' logo no one would have cared. That cycling club WAS Montreal AAA... they called themselves an ATHLETIC association because they played more than one sport. But auto racing wasn't part of that. My point, it isn't a car wheel. I don't think the Red Wings ever claimed it was a car wheel. The whole "it's a car wheel/it represents the auto industry" thing probably came from people who didn't know where the logo came from and were trying to justify it to themselves. It's just an homage to one of hockey's earliest powerhouse teams.

The club wasn't a cycling club. It was an athletic club. Cycling and hockey were each different aspects of the club. The hockey team was the first team to win the Stanley Cup. James Norris, who bought the Detroit Falcons and renamed them the Red Wings, played for them in 1898. So that's why he used a variation of their logo for the Wings. To honour the legacy and history of his former team. They didn't just see a random athletic club logo and go "let's use that!"

No. They took the logo from the Montreal Amateur Athletics Association, whose hockey team, the Winged Wheelers, were the first team to win the Stanley Cup.

The Montreal Winged Wheelers? How DARE they pay homage to one of the game's first powerhouse franchises!

Not to mention it technically sits in NJ's waters. From the National Park Service: You didnt contradict anything I said above. It still sits in NJ's waters even though NY has jurisdiction over the Island. Jurisdiction trumps territory. The US embassy in London's in the UK's territory but it's still American land.

Uggg no thanks. The Blue Jays actually look like the Blue Jays again. I wouldn't mind that scheme on an other team, but not for the Jays.

I should probably add that ideally a 30 team NHL would have franchises in Quebec City, Seattle, and Milwaukee, but we had to go chasing the housing bubble instead. You know what really chaps my ass about those states? The whole economy is a house of lies. They undermine the entire industrial midwest/northeast where unions fought like hell to make sure workers could be treated like human beings, then the South, which never manufactured anything that wasn't distilled, comes in all "hey free tax breaks for everyone and we have air conditioning now," and so now you have all these non-union shops in Tennessee that they can afford to have because of all the tax money DC has given them for lagging so much behind the traditionally developed part of the country. I mean, they don't have a hockey team, thank God, but how much of Alabama's economy is based on the Pentagon giving them money to build warships to nowhere and generally play with expensive guns and stuff? Mr. Destructo said it better than I can in a rant about college football fans: So yeah, it just breaks my heart to watch Detroit and Buffalo fall apart while these johnny-come-lately sprawlsvilles like Nashville and Raleigh pop up to gobble up everyone's blue-collar and white-collar work because they're able to pretend they're better off than they really are. But I mean, it can't go all the way downhill. We're all descended from Scandinavians and Germans and European Jews who spent the winters staying indoors and thinking, so we'll think our way out of this, too, right? The North will rise again. There's a lot here to dissect and discuss that is sadly beyond the scope of the Coyotes killing Glendale and the league simply by existing, but by and large well said.

I believe it is, yes. I should probably add that ideally a 30 team NHL would have franchises in Quebec City, Seattle, and Milwaukee, but we had to go chasing the housing bubble instead.

Seattle also has a larger, American, English speaking TV audience which is worth far more to the league than the second smallest market in North America behind Green Bay with an almost exclusively francaphone Canadian population. That said, you're right that Quebec has some great points in it's favor, not the least of which is a dedicated hockey loving fanbase which the team would have all to itself without having to share with the NBA, NFL, MLS, and MLB. Which is why they'll likely get Team 31 due in no small part because they'd pay the expansion fee far more readily than Levin would in Seattle or any other US market for that matter. The thing is that tv isn't what makes the NHL the bulk of its money. It's ticket sales. Winnipeg proved that a small Canadian market with a dedicated fanbase was more then capable of succeeding economically in a league where a major American city failed. As for tv, well even with their new deal with NBC the NHL's most profitable tv deals remain the ones with CBC and CTV (TSN). And having more Canadian teams could only help in that regard. No doubt Quebec City's a shoe-in for team 31 if Seattle gets the Coyotes, but there shouldn't even be a team 31 in the first place.

Fixed that for you, Cap. Phoenix is the "undeserved" market. Haha, thanks.

I can see how that would be preferable to Quebec City, which only has a state of the art hockey arena on the way and a serviceable hockey arena ready to use in the meantime.

Also Gary Bettman's head just might explode during the press conference if he had to confirm a second sunbelt team moving to Canada in under five years. I really want Quebec City to get the Coyotes because it's an undeserved market full of knowledgeable, passionate hockey fans. That being said my main motivation for wanting to see them move to Quebec City at this point is just so I can see what that press conference would be like. He threatened to move the Jets at theirs, and he didn't even care about the Thrashers! I can only imagine what a "Coyotes to Quebec" press conference would be like at this point.

Just as an aside, this thing is beautiful. It's like if the big gold belt were somehow more awesome. http://topropebelts.com/gallery/custom-wrestling-belts/right-coast-pro-heavyweight-title/

Yep. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Seattle's all but said that without an NBA team the arena is a no-go.

So Mike Smith has something new to threaten people with?