Saintsfan Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Here I am to start another occasional series, on a sports related issue- The first is (ironically!) when to retire? Karl Malone went to the Lakers attempting to win a ring- serious injury and a teams failings denied him of this- John Stockton retires happily rather than move onto somewhere where his heart wouldn't go with him. Gary Payton moves from Seattle onto Milwaukee and finally ends up in Los Angeles to chase the dream of a championship ring. Stockton comes out of this with a great deal of class (as ever seemingly!) Payton has put his place in the Hall of Fame, to some extent, at risk, Malone gains nothing and misses the opportunity to retire gracefully, with a team he had given years of service to. However at the time who would have criticised Malone or Payton? My point is the moment of deciding to retire is a tough thing for any sportsman. Do you go on and on chasing what perhaps is your destiny of a championship. Watching Andreychuck or Borque pick up the Stanley Cup, who could criticise an ageing veteran having one last run at the gold. However there is nothing sadder than watching a veteran who has clearly lost there talents playing on and on and on beyond there peak. The wise are clever and find an alternatinve- coaching, broadcasting or something far removed from sports. Some just can't stop and try and try and try. The odd thing about all of this is the comeback- the old and often succesful vet who decides to have one last run, having already given it all up- most famously recently his Airness himself. Has Jordan's career standing been at all affected after a couple of years showing his skills in a weak team? Does that tarnish his 6 championships with the Bulls at all? 2011/12 WFL Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTank Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 When to retire is always a difficult subject for all atheletes. Their love for the game and desire to play is hard to fight and when you have done something all your life its hard to give it up and walking away is not always a simple decision. www.sportsecyclopedia.com For the best in sports history go to the Sports E-Cyclopedia at http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 The only thing that tarnished Jordans name in his comeback with the Wizards was the fact that none of the younger players enjoyed having him on their team.He was still a solid contributer, still put up numbers that most NBA players would love to be able to put up, still played over 35 minutes a game. Still hit some game winning jump shots. So he played on a bad team? One of his reasons for returning was to teach the kids something about the game. And since alot of younger players like to consider themselves "Students of the Game", it should be good for most anyone to be on the same team as Michael Jordan.What I think some players don't realize that winning a Championship is not everything in sports, and I hate how some fans like to use that against a player. Fact is, some players just play on worse teams. Hell, it's stupid to have even criticized Larry Brown for not having won a championship but to have praised Phil Jackson for having won so many. Larry Brown took over bad teams -- Phil Jackson took over teams where he was expected to win just about right away.But back on topic, it's really stupid to think, as an athlete, that your career means so much less because you didn't play for a ring and I think going from team to team chasing a ring and never quite getting it tarnishes a players name more than retiring without one, and having been loyal to a particular team and fan base for a good portion, if not all, of your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFoA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Here's my $.02 on this one...I can't understand why MJ, who already had a ring for every finger and then one, would want to come back, when he knew he had no chance of bolstering his status with another championship... So I say that in both cases of MJ and Karl Malone, it tarnished their careers... It tarnished Malone's because of the way he went out in his final season {if it is his final season}, and it tarnished Jordan's career because he already retired ontop, and him coming back just messed it up IMO...Now, for the players who move from the team they were famous with to another team just to win a title, I have no love for them at all... I lost my respect for Borque when he left the Bruins, and the same thing for Malone when he left the Jazz... Now I know they want the ring, but really, if you're with a team for a decade and a half, then you up and leave them for a contender just to win a title, then that tarnishes your career, ESPECIALLY if you don't win the title   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfannova Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Here's my $.02 on this one...I can't understand why MJ, who already had a ring for every finger and then one, would want to come back, when he knew he had no chance of bolstering his status with another championship... So I say that in both cases of MJ and Karl Malone, it tarnished their careers... It tarnished Malone's because of the way he went out in his final season {if it is his final season}, and it tarnished Jordan's career because he already retired ontop, and him coming back just messed it up IMO...Now, for the players who move from the team they were famous with to another team just to win a title, I have no love for them at all... I lost my respect for Borque when he left the Bruins, and the same thing for Malone when he left the Jazz... Now I know they want the ring, but really, if you're with a team for a decade and a half, then you up and leave them for a contender just to win a title, then that tarnishes your career, ESPECIALLY if you don't win the title haha, the Flame of Atlanta, posting in the hot topic....man,I'm easily amused...but anyway.....I think retirement is completly subjective and all depends on the "If he's a valuable asset" factor. I don't like the ring-whoring at all, but you can't really blame guys if they want to continue their career and go to a different city. I mean, that's always happened.I don't think that a ring is completly necessary, but if your going for the greatest player ever, rings are pretty much necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I can't understand why MJ, who already had a ring for every finger and then one, would want to come back, when he knew he had no chance of bolstering his status with another championship... So I say that in both cases of MJ and Karl Malone, it tarnished their careers... It tarnished Malone's because of the way he went out in his final season {if it is his final season}, and it tarnished Jordan's career because he already retired ontop, and him coming back just messed it up IMO... Maybe Jordan didn't care so much that he went out on top? Maybe Jordan wanted to come back and prove he could still play at a higher level than most can dream of? He did just that. It didn't tarnish Jordans record in terms of how he looks as a player. He's still the single greatest player to ever live and it has nothing to do with his Championship rings, more-so how he played in the games to get him those rings. Jordan was absolutely amazing, and did everything the Bulls needed from, and asked of, him. That's what makes him the best player and that record has not been tarnished. I think Jordans name has been tarnished as a teammate because of how the younger players didn't like playing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFoA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Maybe Jordan didn't care so much that he went out on top? Maybe Jordan wanted to come back and prove he could still play at a higher level than most can dream of? He did just that. It didn't tarnish Jordans record in terms of how he looks as a player. He's still the single greatest player to ever live and it has nothing to do with his Championship rings, more-so how he played in the games to get him those rings. Jordan was absolutely amazing, and did everything the Bulls needed from, and asked of, him. That's what makes him the best player and that record has not been tarnished. ToucheI'm not saying that he won't go down in history as the greatest ever, because BY FAR he will... I'm just saying that I would've had a better view of him if the last play I ever saw him play was that last minute shot to sink the Jazz in game 6 of the '98 Finals, because that's more of a glorified way to go out...But then again, you're right by saying that of all people who would come out of retirement at the top, just to see if they could still play at the highest level, it would be Jordan   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintsfan Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Of course Jordan has now retired 3 times, so he has plenty of practice! I just saw Pete Sampras interviewed and his retirement was a bit strange, in that he had kind of retired before announcing it- cutting back a long way on his schedule.Golfers have it easy, they don't retire, they go play on the Champions Tour. Kind of makes life simpler! Recently an England cricketer retired mid season, having just put in a great performance, because he wanted to go out on top, and that shows guts I think. Making your own decision and just going! 2011/12 WFL Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I don't like that. A player should never retire in mid-season unless it's injury related, or he has some other problem that makes it difficult for him to complete the season and/or play at a high level.Bailing out on your teammates because you had one good game is inexcusable and does nothing but hurt your teammates. That's just about as self centered as I feel you could get. When you start a season, you're in it for the long haul unless something comes up to where you can't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintsfan Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 I'll explain the story in a bit more detail, just to explain why in this case in the end isn't quite being fair.Nasser Hussain had been captain of england between 1999 and 2003. He had served English cricket well as a determind and commited player. During the 2003 world cup he had been put in a spot by the cricket authorities over whether England should play in violence strewn Zimbabwe. He has always had an uppity side, and in his post retirement press conference admitted to being selfish. In the last few weeks and months leading up to his retirement several prominent ex players had been calling for him to be dropped from the team to allow younger players in. During his last game, a younger player came into the team to replace a player who was injured for that one game and performed very well. Rather than wait to be dropped, and putting the selectors in a spot, he decided to retire. His retirement has been widely supported by players and the media. 2011/12 WFL Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Ahhh... I thought it was like... "Well, I had a good game so I'm gonna leave the rest of my team out on a limb and retire"In that case, Its a pretty classy move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pking34@comcast.net Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Joe DiMaggio got a lot of things wrong,but on the subject of when to retire, he got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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