oldschoolvikings

Atlanta Falcons concept

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I've already posted a concept for the Falcons based on their current throwback. (At least it was current before the NFL changed their helmet rule.) But recently an idea occurred to me that would utilize more gray, and connect more to their late 70's early/80's look. This gray would be slightly darker than the current NFL style silver/gray so many teams use.

As always, comments are appreciated.

falcn1_zps60820b76.png

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I think the logo needs some red, especially if that's the main colour in the uniforms. But great job so far!

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1. I disagree with the above comment about the logo needing red. Just give it a red outline around the white (just like how they use the silver today). That way it blends in with the helmet, but also still has red when used in other applications. If you do feel the need to add red, a very thin line under the silver "streaks" that are in the feathers would suffice.

2. I think a more sharp font would work better with this. Not necessarily straight up block, but something more blockish. Nothing really wrong with the ones you used, I just think that sharper lines would work better.

3. I'm not sure if gray works for the NOB. This is one that I'd have to see actually mocked or photoshopped up to judge. I kinda think it wouldn't be legible enough, but at the same time, would look good up close. I think that maybe a black NOB and gray sleeve stripes would work. Or even deviate from the home stripes and go red-gray-black, or gray-red-black, or some combo that would give the colors some balance.

4. I don't think helmet stripes are the way to go with that logo. It's a contemporary / aggressive logo, and the "traditional" stripes just don't work IMO. Also, (hear me out here), I think that logos like this have more of a dynamic quality than say the Packers' "G", or the SF. This bird is in flight. He shouldn't be obstructed by bars. The same IMO applies to the Titans logo wtih the flames. The flames would burn through stripes in the back, so they have that strip that stops half way. I know it's an overthink, but that's why we're here.

5. It would make sense to have a gray alt. Red helmet over gray jersey over black pants could look great.

6. Definitely not a fan of the striping on the black pants. It looks more like two thin stripes than a 3-color triple stripe, and clashes when viewed next to the gray pants. I'm not sure why you wouldn't go gray-red-gray here.

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But if he gives the logo a red outline, wouldn't he be adding red to the logo? ;)

I should have explained myself better. I realised the idea here was to incorporate more silver, and I felt that the logo needed something to be red. The eye or the outline, I was thinking. But now that you've mentioned the pants stripe, I can't unsee it. Definitely go grey-red-grey on the black pants, as BringBackTheVet said.

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Yay some Falcons concepts!!! I like them but I know the grey is a nod to our old Black and Greys which I loved but they look odd with Red as the Primary.

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Nice job on the concept. I would keep the grey, it looks better, and it's different.

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1. I disagree with the above comment about the logo needing red. Just give it a red outline around the white (just like how they use the silver today). That way it blends in with the helmet, but also still has red when used in other applications. If you do feel the need to add red, a very thin line under the silver "streaks" that are in the feathers would suffice.

2. I think a more sharp font would work better with this. Not necessarily straight up block, but something more blockish. Nothing really wrong with the ones you used, I just think that sharper lines would work better.

3. I'm not sure if gray works for the NOB. This is one that I'd have to see actually mocked or photoshopped up to judge. I kinda think it wouldn't be legible enough, but at the same time, would look good up close. I think that maybe a black NOB and gray sleeve stripes would work. Or even deviate from the home stripes and go red-gray-black, or gray-red-black, or some combo that would give the colors some balance.

4. I don't think helmet stripes are the way to go with that logo. It's a contemporary / aggressive logo, and the "traditional" stripes just don't work IMO. Also, (hear me out here), I think that logos like this have more of a dynamic quality than say the Packers' "G", or the SF. This bird is in flight. He shouldn't be obstructed by bars. The same IMO applies to the Titans logo wtih the flames. The flames would burn through stripes in the back, so they have that strip that stops half way. I know it's an overthink, but that's why we're here.

5. It would make sense to have a gray alt. Red helmet over gray jersey over black pants could look great.

6. Definitely not a fan of the striping on the black pants. It looks more like two thin stripes than a 3-color triple stripe, and clashes when viewed next to the gray pants. I'm not sure why you wouldn't go gray-red-gray here.

Thanks for all the feedback, Vet. I always value your opinion, even though we don't necessarily have the same tastes. Actually, now that I think about it, I probably value your opinion because we don't necessarily have the same tastes.

Let me try to explain what I was thinking, point by point.

1. Yeah, I think the same about the red in the logo. Back when Atlanta had a logo that was only black and white on red, they did that same thing... red logo outside the white. Hell, at one time they had a black and white logo on a black helmet... no red at all, even though red was technically their secondary color.

2. The font I used is just their current font with a less obtrusive outline. I kept it because, as custom fonts go, I've always kind of liked it. You may be right that its out of place on this particular design. I'll think about it.

3. I used gray for the NOB (and the same front wordmark too) mostly to get some gray onto the road jersey. Without it, there's no gray. Its the same reason I used white on the home jersey. I figure it would be just about as legible as the Steelers' road jersey's gold NOB.

4. I think that's an interesting point about the helmet stripes combined with the modern logo. I never would've thought about that (the bird is obstructed by bars...). I'm not sure I completely agree... to me, a three stripe helmet just says football, and is almost always appropriate, but that's a very interesting way to look at it. I'll have to think about it.

5. I'd probably rather do a gray alt than the obvious black, but unlike you, red over gray over black sounds unworkable to me. One of my basic personal football uniform "rules" is you can't use three different colors for helmet/jersey/pants, unless one color is white. So, for me, a gray alt would need white or red pants. (I know you would hate a gray jersey over white pants, however.)

6. Finally, I have to admit, the stripes on the black road pants were a struggle. In the end, I decided red/black/gray on black was my best option, and here's why. If you notice, I've intentionally isolated the red and gray in all parts of the uniform. Red and gray never touch. I actually tried both gray/red/gray and red/gray/red (I liked the latter slightly more) but it bugged me for two reasons. First, that would be the only place gray and red touched, and more importantly, the red and that particular gray are very close in Achromatic Value. That's a fancy-ass term, I know, but it basically means if you took a black and white photo of them, they'd look almost the same. That would be something I'd hammer my freshman design students on (OK, not really hammer) so I can't bring myself to do it.

Once again, thanks for the detailed thought... its really appreciated.

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1. I disagree with the above comment about the logo needing red. Just give it a red outline around the white (just like how they use the silver today). That way it blends in with the helmet, but also still has red when used in other applications. If you do feel the need to add red, a very thin line under the silver "streaks" that are in the feathers would suffice.

2. I think a more sharp font would work better with this. Not necessarily straight up block, but something more blockish. Nothing really wrong with the ones you used, I just think that sharper lines would work better.

3. I'm not sure if gray works for the NOB. This is one that I'd have to see actually mocked or photoshopped up to judge. I kinda think it wouldn't be legible enough, but at the same time, would look good up close. I think that maybe a black NOB and gray sleeve stripes would work. Or even deviate from the home stripes and go red-gray-black, or gray-red-black, or some combo that would give the colors some balance.

4. I don't think helmet stripes are the way to go with that logo. It's a contemporary / aggressive logo, and the "traditional" stripes just don't work IMO. Also, (hear me out here), I think that logos like this have more of a dynamic quality than say the Packers' "G", or the SF. This bird is in flight. He shouldn't be obstructed by bars. The same IMO applies to the Titans logo wtih the flames. The flames would burn through stripes in the back, so they have that strip that stops half way. I know it's an overthink, but that's why we're here.

5. It would make sense to have a gray alt. Red helmet over gray jersey over black pants could look great.

6. Definitely not a fan of the striping on the black pants. It looks more like two thin stripes than a 3-color triple stripe, and clashes when viewed next to the gray pants. I'm not sure why you wouldn't go gray-red-gray here.

Thanks for all the feedback, Vet. I always value your opinion, even though we don't necessarily have the same tastes. Actually, now that I think about it, I probably value your opinion because we don't necessarily have the same tastes.

Let me try to explain what I was thinking, point by point.

1. Yeah, I think the same about the red in the logo. Back when Atlanta had a logo that was only black and white on red, they did that same thing... red logo outside the white. Hell, at one time they had a black and white logo on a black helmet... no red at all, even though red was technically their secondary color.

2. The font I used is just their current font with a less obtrusive outline. I kept it because, as custom fonts go, I've always kind of liked it. You may be right that its out of place on this particular design. I'll think about it.

3. I used gray for the NOB (and the same front wordmark too) mostly to get some gray onto the road jersey. Without it, there's no gray. Its the same reason I used white on the home jersey. I figure it would be just about as legible as the Steelers' road jersey's gold NOB.

4. I think that's an interesting point about the helmet stripes combined with the modern logo. I never would've thought about that (the bird is obstructed by bars...). I'm not sure I completely agree... to me, a three stripe helmet just says football, and is almost always appropriate, but that's a very interesting way to look at it. I'll have to think about it.

5. I'd probably rather do a gray alt than the obvious black, but unlike you, red over gray over black sounds unworkable to me. One of my basic personal football uniform "rules" is you can't use three different colors for helmet/jersey/pants, unless one color is white. So, for me, a gray alt would need white or red pants. (I know you would hate a gray jersey over white pants, however.)

6. Finally, I have to admit, the stripes on the black road pants were a struggle. In the end, I decided red/black/gray on black was my best option, and here's why. If you notice, I've intentionally isolated the red and gray in all parts of the uniform. Red and gray never touch. I actually tried both gray/red/gray and red/gray/red (I liked the latter slightly more) but it bugged me for two reasons. First, that would be the only place gray and red touched, and more importantly, the red and that particular gray are very close in Achromatic Value. That's a fancy-ass term, I know, but it basically means if you took a black and white photo of them, they'd look almost the same. That would be something I'd hammer my freshman design students on (OK, not really hammer) so I can't bring myself to do it.

Once again, thanks for the detailed thought... its really appreciated.

Tastes in modern vs traditional are nearly irrelevant when giving feedback. If you want to make a very traditional set, I'll provide feedback to help it be a good traditional set. Same with contemporary. There's a difference between constructive criticism and a "wish list". For example, if someone is making a very traditional set with block numbers, northwestern stripes, it's silly to say "you should add piping, and a custom font, because that's cool!" The "concept" is the vision or goal. I won't give feedback that alters that, unless it is clear that it is flawed (for example when I wasn't sure what your end game was when you wanted the logo-on-front uniforms.)

I think tastes come in to play on a much narrower scale. For example, the color of a NOb, double vs single outlines on the numerals, etc. Personal tastes that if applied might alter the execution, but not the concept.

That's actually why I pretty much stopped posting feedback on the concepts board years ago. Too many kids with "feedback" like "it's kewl" or "no complaints". It's just not worth the time in most cases.

Now that the speach is out of the way, let's continue this.

2. There's certainly nothing wrong with the font you chose, but I just think that with the straight "traditional" stripes that exist everywhere else, a blockier font would be better. If you want custom, maybe use the Jags or Texans as inspiration (maybe Jags moreso). The Jags font is pretty bad, but could pretty easily be molded into something that would work well with this concept.

3. Like I said it may work well. If this was "real", you'd probably want prototypes with different options. You could still work gray into the sleeves and be fine. This may be one of those "taste" things.

4. I think that if you want stripes, a more static logo (like their old one) would be better. The "aggressiveness" of the current logo, which is designed in the contemporary style, almost clashes with the concept. I mean it's fine and there's no need to change it, but if you were a logo designer, I'd probably suggest redrawing it to be more traditional. The more I look at it, I'd lose the stripes.

I thought of another comparison - look at the Broncos helmets. I never understood the silly helmet stripe and why it started where it did, but then I realized it's because of the "direction" of the horse, and how you won't want a bar in front of it. It's almost "breaking through" the stripe (yeah that's a stretch, but work with me here.) Granted the Broncos logo is more horizontal and would be closer to the stirpe than yours, but I think that the general idea of what I was saying holds.

Again, wouldn't ruin the concept to have stripes there, just my opinion and reasoning behind it.

5. Yeah - white pants suck with gray jerseys, unless it's a really dark gray. I get what you're saying about R-G-B being too many different colors. Maybe R-G-R would work, I'd have to see it. R-G-B might not be too bad if the pants were fixed. Speaking of which...

6. I get your reasoning, and can appreciate the consistency of keeping colors from touching throughout the entire set. However, there are times that it just doesn't work. I really think these pants are the weakest part of the entire concept.

You could still keep to your mandate of colors touching by doing red-gray-red or gray-red-gray, but insert thin black stripes in between, so it'd be R-B-G-B-R or G-B-R-B-G. It would be a little inconsistent from the other pants, but I think it's perfectly acceptable. You could claim that there's invisible gray stripes outside of the black on the gray pants, and the black is just thinner on the black pants.

I'm always more than willing to provide my opinions when someone knows how to take criticism and appreciates the feedback. Doesn't matter if any of my suggestions are implemented (at the end of the day, why do I care?) but I like hearing the reasoning behind the various parts that I don't agree with, because every now and then I learn something.

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