Still MIGHTY

That's because there aren't any. If you look at this picture below on the left side of the scoreboard, the logos are the representation of the Division/NL titles. It uses the logo from the time and it has the yeah (02, 07, etc.) attached in a circle on the logo. The World Series title is above the Miller Lite logo on the right.

The NHL is not expanding. Not now. Not ever. And if they do, it will be the death of the league.

Yeah they were flying banners over the Dodger's game at Camelback Ranch on Saturday trying to lure some spring training visitors over to the arena after Sunday's games to watch some hockey on Sunday. Found that just funny given that a large number of spring training go'ers aren't locals. The Blackhawks played a road game in Phoenix during spring training the last few years because of all the Cubs/Sox fans that make the visit. I can't confirm that there were Sox fans who rooted for the Coyotes because too many Cubs fans like the Blackhawks, but I can't confirm there weren't, either. The Coyotes also had A.J. Pierzynski ( ) do a ceremonial puck drop at a spring Hawks/Yotes game last season.

Like I said, I'll miss them, but I'm a die-hard hockey fan. I like going just to see the game (and when the Ducks are in town). There is a fair amount of people that will miss them. Now mind you these people that miss them also dont go to games for the most part. Actually, most of the kids in my generation (18-23) that were born/raised here that I've met out here in college are Coyotes fans. They've never not know Phoenix sports without the Coyotes (or DBacks for that matter). When I go to the games, I find that most of the Coyote fans are young adults or the older Canadian snowbirds rooting for the home team. There will definitely be people that miss them. (I don't want to say definitively more than there were in Atlanta because I couldn't say that for sure, but gauging my feel, I suspect that's the case. Just an opinion, don't flame down upon me Atlanta fan.) Most of the rational thinking fans out here see the endgame too. They'll miss them, but they'll understand for the most part. And really, it's nobody's fault but their own and Glendale's. The NHL has been fighting hand over fist for this team to work in Arizona, but it sadly just isn't. Ah well. Allez les Yotes.

Except the NHL has already said that Winnipeg is staying in the Southeast next season. (I'm assuming they're assuming the Coyotes are still in Phoenix.)

Further emphasis for KeyArena's badness, the scoreboard is centered over the blue line: Ah c'mon, but this was fun, wasn't it? And the Senators played HERE? Good God.

Looks like this whole thing might finally FINALLY be coming to a head, doesn't it? Obviously for the good of the league and the health of the game (and hell, for the good of Glendale), I understand that the Coyotes need to leave. If I didn't actually live here, I'd be full force behind wanting the Coyotes to just get the hell out. But like I said in the main NHL thread, for my own selfish reasons, I hope that somebody does come in at the 11th hour to save the Coyotes or at least string this out a little longer (at least two years, then I'll leave AZ, and give the Yotes my full blessing ) Again, all that said, swaping Phoenix for Quebec, and we'd have the NHL back to the right and good way it should've been. Only other team that probably doesn't fit/work left would the the Panthers, but they're not in money troubles yet. (Are they?) Since the NHL isn't going to expand and I still believe Columbus should have their team and the other Southern teams (Dallas/Nashville/Carolina/Tampa) are all relative successes and in good shape, the Panthers are the only other team that I would put up as Seattle-bait right now.

1) I saw what you did McCarthy Smooth. 2) I'm sure we've already done this thread like 4 times already, but whatever. Anaheim Ducks - Born/Raised in OC. Family had season tickets since Day 1 of the Franchise. Gone to games since I was 4 years old. Of any of my teams, this one is my life blood. I could lose all the others, but the Ducks are a part of me. LA Angels of Anaheim - Born/Raised in OC. My Grandpa was a Giants fan as a kid when they were in NY, so there was no way he was rooting for the Dodgers in SoCal, but he also dropped the Giants when they left. Been going to games since I could hit a teeball. Los Angeles Lakers - Born/raised in SoCal. Like Rockstar said, it's the Lakers here, or the Clippers if you want to be different. Honestly, I don't hate the Clippers. I like seeing them do well as a local team. Sometimes it's annoying when the hardcore Clipper fans try to make themselves as something more than they are, but that's it. The Lakers are king in SoCal no matter what and that will never change, but I think everyone in SoCal has a small soft spot for the Clippers. Indianapolis Colts - Growing up in SoCal, my local options were ripped out when I was 5. I went to one Charger game a year when I was growing up, but I never got attached to them. It was the Doug Flutie years, they royally sucked. I was a Charger "fan" just because they happened to be the closest NFL option, but San Diego is generally in its own bubble separate from the rest of SoCal and I really didn't care about the NFL. When I really started paying attention to football when I started playing in High School, the Colts were beginning their rise. I liked their uniforms, I loved Peyton Manning and how he controlled the offense, so I started following them. I "split" with the Colts/Chargers for a year or two, but when the Colts/Pats rivalry got truly fired up and the Chargers/Colts match-ups, I got really into it from a Colts side. My allegiance was picked organically in that way. You can call it a bandwagon if you want, but I'm firmly in my seat on it. Not getting off. The ONLY exception will be the return of an NFL team to LA that either is the Rams or isn't the Chargers. Arizona State Sun Devils - My school. Ball So Hard University. Fear the Fork, buddy. Manchester United - Easily the stupidest of my fandoms In the movie Eurotrip, the main characters find themselves in a Manchester United supporters bar in London. The supporters are stereotyped soccer hooligans and it's ridiculous and funny. But since it was in the movie and I had no soccer knowledge at all when the movie came out, I thought Man U was fake. Then after I started to get into soccer after watching the 2006 World Cup, I looked towards European football and the Premiership for a team to follow, I found out Man U was a real thing. I was so taken aback by this that they had to be my team. I had no knowledge of their reputation or their record or anything like that, but they were going to be my team. I've learned a whole lot since then, but Man U is still my club. Secondary followings: NHL - Phoenix Coyotes, because I live in Phoenix and love the old jerseys. Florida Panthers, because they're the Ducks expansion brother and I love the old red jerseys and it's the East so no effect on the Ducks. Winnipeg Jets, because I'm happy they got their team back and pretty nice jerseys and again, for now, it's the East. MLB - San Diego Padres, other SoCal team that isn't the Dodgers and in the NL. Arizona Diamondbacks, because just like the Yotes they are now my local team and like the Pads it's the NL so no effect on the Angels. NBA - Los Angeles Clippers, because it's the aforementioned LA little brother thing, sometimes they can be annoying but deep down you like them a little bit. Blake Griffin being awesome helps. Milwaukee Bucks, just for the of it and again the East thing. Chicago Bulls, because I grew up with Jordan and its the East. NFL - Arizona Cardinals, because again I live here and my family has season tickets for the Cards (I have other family in AZ, so we split them among the family). San Diego Chargers, just a little because it's the local team and I like Charger fans. New York Giants, because it's my family's old team when my grandpa and uncles lived in NYC and the Manning connection. NCAA - USC Trojans, because I grew up in SoCal and you had to choose USC or UCLA for an allegiance. USC was also the school I set my sights on going to since I wanted to go to school. Obviously, that fell through but the ties are still there. Texas A&M, because it's my mom's alma mater and I spent a few summers in College Station. MLS - Los Angeles Galaxy, because again local team. I didn't even know Chivas played in LA for like 3 years, and I actually remember the green/gold Cobi Jones years of the Galaxy.

The $1.00 beers are 10z Bud Lights and you can only get two at a time, but yeah. It's basically all that you said. These promotions are great for the people that actually go to the games. Had I not had a prior family commitment, I would have been at that game. (Defensive, team, "Scrappy BunchTM" systems aside) two division leaders, Saturday night, $1 everything night, I definitely would have gone. Especially being assured a great seat no matter how cheap I bought It really is just so pathetic. I was talking with somebody the other day, and they brought up an interesting idea. What if the Coyotes were able to organize a deal to play some of their games downtown at US Airways Arena (sightline issues aside)? Try and prove that it's an actual "location issue" over a lack of hockey enthusiasm. It probably couldn't be worked out or actually work. If anything it'd give Bettman another crutch to lean on if it did work., but I wonder how that could work out.

SAN DIEGO State in the Big EAST... Sure.

I was at the Ducks/Yotes game. It was $1 hotdog/soda/beer night. The upper deck was actually pretty full. The problems came at each endzone and the top of the lower bowl. And honestly, besides all of the obvious that's been stated ad nauseum in each incarnation of this thread, I think a lot of if has to do with the pricing. Upper deck starts at $35 face value. I got mine for $15 dollars. Almost every upper deck ticket on StubHub and the Coyotes official ticket exchange was under that face value. Lower bowl starts at $60 or $65 I believe. Eh, besides the Ducks sucking ass through a hose and that obnoxious Coyote howl (literally at any time it is a semi-positive result, echoed by some drunk, middle-aged woman 3-rows behind me), I had a good time. $1 beer night is a great idea. It's only 10 oz and two per person with each trip, but hey, it's $1 beer, and if you time your tv timeout runs up the stairs right, you can get your beer and be back to your seat before the trivia question is answered. And that's a great thing EDIT to add picture of "9,124" people:

You're giving it too much credit.

Ever? Uh, Yeah? They sold out their home opener this year AGAINST Winnipeg. They sold out plenty of games when they first moved the Phoenix. They've sold out playoff games.

I wanted you to be lying. That couldn't possibly be real. Then I looked it up. Just like CS85 said, this is now just reaching the sad territory. Not sad for the fans, the city, or the team itself. I weep tears at the very idea of the Coyotes at this point. It's just sad that this is how a professional organization has to be run. Just end it all.

They've actually done the $1 hotdog/soda/beer night two or three times a season the past couple seasons. It's good for people on a budget, like me especially with their next $1 night on Thanksgiving Eve vs the Ducks. Me personally I don't have a huge problem with it, and I've seen it done in baseball, but baseball is a different animal with promotions with the long season. However, I see your point. But John McCain bobblehead night? I get that it's military night, but you don't need to bring down a nice gesture with that. Hell it hardly looks like McCain and if it did it's still him 20-30-40 years younger in a Coyotes jersey with a little American flag on it. Is McCain even going to be there? And I just looked at their promotion schedule, and they're having another Military Night in February, but this time they'er giving away an Alice Cooper bobblehead. Alice freaking Cooper on Military Night... Make sense of that. Also, while it's nice to offer the discount to the military, I can get those same tickets that they've marked down to $20 in the upper bowl for like $5 on Stubhub. Same with the $50 to like $25. I've fought for you, Coyotes. I enjoy going to your games, and I enjoy having NHL hockey down the street. But damn, you're making this hard.

Kids 12 and Under... but yes that too.

I will say that Winnipeg vs Florida on a Halloween Monday night in Sunrise doesn't sound like the most enticing of match-ups to try and sell to the Panthers Red Zone at Lexus Ice at the BankAtlantic Center sponsored by Iams Dog Food presented by Bud Light. But yeah that looked pretty damn bad. However, it was 11,855. Beating out Phoenix, even with the tarped upper deck.

For those interested, the two forces of the suckily-attended play each other tonight in Glendale. The Coyotes and Stars met in Dallas on a Columbus Day Monday matinee, a thrilling game where the two were scoreless into the 3rd where each scored a goal then finished in a shootout, to an announced crowd of 6,306. This time it's a Tuesday night at the Jobberdome. I'm excited for the results. ---- Also point of order: People, irregardless doesn't mean anything, and is never used correctly. When people say it, they are usually meaning to say "regardless." Regardless means without regard. Irregardless means without without regard... so with regard... If in doubt, use regardless. Please and thank you.

I think that's an interesting point. Over the past two good years on the ice for Phoenix, yeah they were winning, but it wasn't all that exciting to watch. Yeah Dallas is winning, but watching them, I cursed at my TV [ackbar] "IT'S THE TRAP!" [/ackbar] People see teams like Washington and Pittsburgh on the highlights with all their talents and speed, and they want to see that in hockey. That was the whole point of the post-lockout rules. Fast, high-scoring, exciting hockey to try and get people back into the sport or grab the ever elusive casual fan. Trying to win over fans that are slow to warm up to hockey in the first place by showing the "the finer points of defensive hockey," is going to be a hard sell. You can see in the paper or the news, oh good they're winning. Then when you sit down to watch, you kinda get lost in it until the final horn sounds with the win. And then people will say, oh good they won. Admiral used the example earlier of Anaheim. Now while the Ducks aren't exactly a run and gun team, they still have these stars and dynamic players to market. MVP Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Bobby Ryan, atletic goalie in Jonas Hiller, hockey legend in Teemu Selanne, personality and mustache in George Parros ( ). The Ducks have become a more up tempo team than in the past, and, when they aren't purposefully trying to sludge themselves, they can be a dynamic scoring team. They have the assets to market, and they actually market them quite well. (Side Note: I agree with your earlier point, Admiral. The Ducks are never going to be tops in the market, but they have their niche and they fill it well. They can even go over that limit with a great team or the right situation. Playoffs, Cup Run, bad Angel years, overall frustration with the Angels.) Dallas and Phoenix don't really have that. Both lost arguably their best player/biggest star. (Brad Richards/Ilya Bryzgalov) Both play primarily defensive systems. Dallas has Mike Ribeiro and... I guess Brendan Morrow. Jamie Benn is really good, but he has almost no name recognition at this point. They have some decent players, but no one that a guy on the street would know. Phoenix is still riding the laurels of Shane Doan as their top guy. Keith Yandle is a dman good d-man, but who is even going to know Keith Yandle? Marketing a d-man isn't usually your best bet. You can market the twitter sensation of BizNasty all you want, but he's only out for 4 or so minutes a night and you're not getting on the ice what he's selling off of it. I actually like their ad campaign ("Hockey The Hard Way") because it does work for their situation, but not for the actual team. (Although they're trying their damndest. They've got billboards all over the Valley.) These teams have an opportunity to grab, but they are hard teams to market and try and get people excited about them, even if they do win.

I like the premise. It'd make more sense to fill the side you're looking at in the picture. That's the TV broadcast angle. I don't know why they'd have people sit in the upper deck if the entire population of the arena could half-fill the lower bowl. Give everyone a seat upgrade. Who is it hurting? Just you, Coyotes.

Here's a panorama of the Kings/Coyotes game yesterday: Yeah, no way in hell is that 7,000 people

Well, Portland drew 5,285 (out of a possible 6,733) against the Manchester Monarchs on Wednesday. It's close.

The Sharks affiliate is in Worchester, Massachusetts. The Kings affiliate is in Manchester, New Hampshire. The Ducks affiliate is in Syracuse, New York. All of those are closer to Quebec than California, but I don't think the Quebecor boogeyman is hanging over San Jose, Los Angeles, or Anaheim. Yeah, you're reading way too much into that. The Coyotes ended their affiliation with San Antonio, then the Panthers left Rochester for San Antonio, the Sabres left Portland for Rochester. Phoenix still needed an AHL team, and Portland was the only open spot. There's nothing there to read into... Unless you're Quebec and you really want a team back.

They were. Up until their recent string of bad ownership decisions, bad seasons, and this season with payroll. Hell, they made a trade for a suspended player last week just so they could be at the salary cap floor. The Stars had been relative "winners" on the ice for the majority of their existence in Dallas. These recent down years have unfortunately coincided with the Rangers' and Mavericks' rise along with new Cowboys Stadium. And of course, Tom Hicks. The past few years have been a confluence of bad for the Stars.