Red Wolf

On 12/1/2021 at 7:41 PM, Dilbert said:

The OVC is in need of football schools and Chicago State is not one of them.

Good news! It would appear that Little Rock is joining and they also don't have football and have no intentions of adding it.

5 minutes ago, Dilbert said:

The OVC is in need of football schools and Chicago State is not one of them.

Isn't Chicago State constantly in danger of closing down entirely?

10 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

Don't forget to add a bit of Beaver Cleavage for the incestual angle, too.

I would have preferred to forget, so thanks.

According to this, they spend more money on football than anybody in Conference USA.

1 minute ago, Burmy said:

I think both schools are in good position to add football soon...they won't even have to build a new stadium. (UTA can use Globe Life Park, Little Rock can use War Memorial Stadium)

UTA's said they have no intention of adding football until they get their other sports better funded. Little Rock football ain't happening, no way no how. LR doesn't even sponsor the Sun Belt's minimum of sports. I made a long post about Little Rock a while back so I'll just quote that here if you want a little more detail.

On 9/20/2021 at 4:13 PM, Red Wolf said:

 

Finally, a topic I have some knowledge on where I don't have to recklessly speculate. Little Rock football ain't happening. When the Razorbacks were pushing harder to get out of playing games at War Memorial, the city and the state parks department were worried about all of the lost revenue and decided to push for UA-Little Rock to finally start football.

 

The university wasn't super interested, but the parks department and the city agreed to pay 2/3 of a feasibility study. The results? Real bad. For one, the amount of donors who said they would give for football was super low, which is saying something since people will usually pretend they'll give money until they actually have to. I suspect this is because most of Little Rock's donors are already big Razorback football fans, as evidenced by the license plates one sees when walking through the donor lot at basketball games.

 

The study also said that if they did start football, it would be best to be an FCS (specifically in the Ohio Valley I believe was the suggestion) as that would be more in line with Little Rock's budget. They would have also needed to increase the student athletic fee which was (is?) already the highest in the state. If I recall correctly, I believe it was the same amount that UTSA increased to when they started football. Also worth pointing out that UA-Little Rock has really struggled with enrollment lately, partially because UCA, just 30 minutes up the road, has become a much more attractive option for a lot prospective students.

7 hours ago, Germanshepherd said:

Good. MACtion is a sacred thing, and I don’t like it being :censored:ed with too much. 

WKU and MTSU wouldn't stop Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday night football from happening. Not sure what else about MACtion would be sacred.

6 hours ago, Burmy said:

McNeese is staying in the Southland for now...they still want to move up to FBS someday, and the Southland has said that, when they do, it won't cost 'em a penny to leave.

McNeese moving up to FBS seems like a longshot to me. Louisiana schools are constantly trying to stave off financial crises.

Quote

With the addition of four new members, C-USA offers a strong footprint in the South and Southwest, providing opportunities to develop new regional rivalries, while staying connected to traditional opponents that our fans want.

Not that Middle had great options here, but it's worth pointing out that FIU, NMSU, and UTEP are all further away from them than literally every single MAC school. Regional is definitely not the term I would use here.

1 hour ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

 

Why would't the MWC want UTEP? Like what is some legitimate reasoning? 

Another mouth to feed that doesn't bring anything to the table. Same reason New Mexico State isn't there.

C-USA is clearly no longer a viable FBS entity, but the one thing I would point out is that they still have an NCAA auto-bid for basketball, and should have some money from all of these exit fees, though those always seem to be negotiated down. So there's still something there, even if it isn't much. Little Rock and UTA need homes now, and that gets you to five. They could probably grab WAC or ASUN schools, or if nothing else grab those left behind in the Southland during that exodus. Obviously doesn't save the football side of things, but it could keep the conference alive.

This is all assuming MTSU and WKU are gone. If not, it's a little easier to keep the conference alive even if they're still not an FBS league.

On 10/28/2021 at 3:34 PM, Dilbert said:

If CUSA dont raid the FCS then Id expect MTSU and WKU go to the MAC,  LA Tech and FIU to the Sun Belt and UTEP to either the MTN West, American or be forced to go independent. UTEP has said they will be in a conference, the MTN West said they dont want them and the American is trending toward a western footprint but also has a footprint up to Philadelphia so having a team far away from everybody isnt out of the question.

If those were going to happen they would have happened. Louisiana Tech is redundant as there's already a northern Louisiana school in the Sun Belt. In an alternate universe, Louisiana Tech is already in the Belt in place of ULM, but they balked and went to the WAC instead so that they could spend all of their money on travel expenses. Would be fitting for them to end up there again.

A large part of the appeal of the Sun Belt as it's being constructed is that it's geographically sound and made up of like-minded schools. They're all public universities, mostly in college towns, with an emphasis on football. Texas State is already a bit of a geographic outlier, but nothing like UTEP, and Miami is further from its closest potential opponent than San Marcos is.

As somebody who has been watching Sun Belt football since its inception, it's really weird to see how far the conference has come. The first ever champion had a losing record. We've outlived the old WAC, and now we're killing Conference USA, and schools actually want to be here.

3 minutes ago, Rockstar Matt said:

Wentz with one of the worst picks I’ve ever seen lmao.
 

People really use to argue that he was better than Dak. Vehemently argue no less. 

Well yeah, Nick Foles won him a ring. Who has bothered to win a ring for Dak?

I was driving a bunch Thursday, so I forgot to bring up the fact that the Broncos now officially have a losing record after starting 3-0 against the NFL's version of the FCS and C-USA. All of my fears about them have been realized and that's a bummer. Oh well.

Why did the Titans have to wait until they had crap uniforms to get good? Though they lost to the Jets which is weird.

6 hours ago, Seadragon76 said:

 

Which ones, though? If a school like Liberty says no to C-USA, what makes an newcomer want to jump into that rotting husk?

 

I think they may have to throw out football only invites to UConn, UMass and New Mexico State to stay afloat (You need eight schools to stay at the FBS level)

Adding three only saves C-USA if the rumors of MTSU and WKU going to the MAC aren't true. Otherwise, they'll need FCS schools.

As far as who they can get? Eastern Kentucky tried to join the Sun Belt a while back, so there appears to be an appetite for moving up and they have a large enough stadium. Not sure how nice it is, but it can't be much worse than what ULM is working with right now. Beyond that, I guess you have to look towards the ASUN and Texas WAC schools for the most part.

1 hour ago, rams80 said:

 

NMSU would INSIST on being a full member; they've done the separate leagues in football and Olympic Sports dance and it didn't end well for them.

They tried to get in for all sports with the Sun Belt but there wasn't any interest from the conference. Non-football membership may not be a thing for C-USA if things are as cataclysmic as they seem, so NMSU might not have the ability to argue for full membership vs. football only.

1 hour ago, rams80 said:

Tarleton's already good enough to beat an FBS team.

But do they have the money to add even more scholarships and build up facilities? I know very little about this school. I don't even know how to pronounce Tarleton.

13 minutes ago, sportsfan7 said:

8 is the minimum for an FBS conference. NMSU might be a lock given their proximity to UTEP and current FBS status. UCONN and UMass are probably additions of last resort, but I'm not sure how many schools are looking to move up and can. I've thought the Montana schools could and maybe Idaho wants to bounce back up. I don't think the Dakota schools would. Sam Houston is probably a good choice. Beyond that...Central Ark? MO St? Tenn St? Jacksonville St?

UCA would have to do major construction to get their stadium up to FBS standards, including possibly demolishing surrounding buildings. Sam Houston would have to up grade to be FBS compliant as well. Missouri State, Jacksonville State, and Eastern Kentucky have large enough stadiums, but I don't know if any of these schools have the budget or the appetite to add scholarships along with jumping into the facilities arms race.

Having talked to a guy that knows people who know things (so take that for what you will), it sounds like the rumor of Southern Miss, Marshall, Old Dominion, and James Madison to the Sun Belt is going to happen.

Which would leave us with a Conference USA made up of UTEP, Louisiana Tech, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, and Florida International. And there's some rumors out there that Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky could be heading to the MAC, leaving just UTEP, La Tech, and FIU in C-USA.

Potentially dire stuff. There is the possibility of C-USA's zombie corpse becoming a football only conference to survive in some form and then everybody finding homes elsewhere for their other sports. They could also conceivably cobble together FCS schools to make the move up, but I'm not really sure who all is actually capable of actually making that move.

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

How are people still stuck on the shift in the Sun Belt-CUSA dynamic?

It's fair. Only so many people are going to pay enough attention to G5 conferences to know what's going on and most people think of the Sun Belt as being closer to their inaugural season when the champion had a losing record. Whereas people might still remember when Conference USA had Cincinnati, TCU, Louisville, Houston, and when they had Southern Miss and East Carolina when they were both really good.

Not to mention it was C-USA that was poaching Sun Belt schools last time around, so in most circumstances that would mean C-USA is the better option. It's unusual for their to be a flip like that. Imagine if the SEC, after taking Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and Missouri ended up being surpassed by the Big XII somehow. It's a much more extreme example since the SEC never hemorrhaged teams of their own like C-USA did, but it's still odd.

24 minutes ago, Seadragon76 said:

-Wouldn't it be a downgrade for Southern Miss and Marshall to go to the Sun Belt? I understand that both schools are possibly seeing the writing on the wall and want out, but it doesn't make sense to me.

No. The Sun Belt passed C-USA on the field and in media rights, and it only gets better with two football schools shoving out the two non-football schools.

25 minutes ago, Seadragon76 said:

-Old Dominion might have a decent plan, on paper, to save C-USA. Adding Liberty and James Madison would be a starting point towards that plan.  The problem becomes this: Who else would join this newly reformed C-USA and what to do with the biggest outlier in the plan in UTEP? Does this conference take in Little Rock and UT-Arlington to help out UTEP despite both schools not having football? Do we see more FCS schools move up as to help ODU in this plan? There's a lot of things going on here.

Even if they had football, Little Rock and Arlington do nothing to help UTEP. Little Rock is closer to every current Sun Belt school (and even Marshall) than they are El Paso. The only team that would help UTEP in any meaningful way is New Mexico State because of geography and willingness to be a full, football playing member.

1 minute ago, Dilbert said:

I thought I heard somewhere that the Sun Belt was looking to dump its non football members Little Rock and UT Arlington.

Correct.

The Southern Miss + Marshall to the Sun Belt rumor has been around pretty much since this all started and I would support the addition of both. I'd also be on board for Old Dominion and James Madison.

C-USA would be in a bad way with only five schools in this situation. They could definitely get New Mexico State as a full member in a pinch, but UMass and UConn aren't joining as anything other than football only. Would Liberty still want it a Conference USA that's such a disaster?

Regarding the eastern G5 plan that Old Dominion is putting forth, I do wonder if James Madison would be interested. They balked at the Sun Belt in the last realignment, thinking they were better off waiting for a C-USA invite, but the landscape has totally flipped in that regard. And again, is Liberty desperate enough to be in a conference to make that happen? And what about UTEP? The Mountain West isn't taking them and neither is the Sun Belt.

20 minutes ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

 

I'm curious why Georgia State is not on that list.

Especially when they already have the DFW market in SMU. Maybe it's to prepare in case SMU leaves, or perhaps the talk that the AAC was going to just gobble up all of Texas to keep the Mountain West away was true. This does feel very much like when C-USA focused too much on markets. Rice and UNT seem like duds, though I think UTSA is good pickup. At least they were smart enough to go with FAU over FIU and also not go with both.

Assuming this happens, C-USA is left with

• Florida International
• Louisiana Tech
• Marshall
• Middle Tennessee
• Old Dominion
• Southern Miss
• UTEP
• Western Kentucky

I feel like UTEP is pretty much screwed here because nobody really wants them due to geography and general lack of on-field success. Everybody else at least has a shot at getting into the Sun Belt. Louisiana Tech might be a hard sell.

4 hours ago, NicDB said:

 

Grand Valley even in FCS would be a mistake IMO.  Competing with Wayne State or Michigan Tech and the like for recruits is one thing. But to continue that same level of success in FCS means digging from the same talent pool as Michigan, Michigan State, and the MAC schools.

FCS doesn't pull from the same pool as FBS. They'd need to compete for that talent as much as they do now.

The American taking Mountain West schools always seemed like a longshot just because the geography gets really wild in a hurry. It's one thing if you're  talking about Big XII money to make the difference, but a whole other issue when it's AAC money.

2 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Beating teams you should beat and winning convincingly, hard to complain there.

 

Baltimore is next week. Will find out who the Broncos really are after that one.

Exactly. It's great to be 3-0, but I'm still pretty sure the Broncos are the fourth best team in the AFC West, so I guess I'm just trying to talk myself out of getting too hyped.

The Broncos are about to be 3-0, but I don't really feel good about it because they've played such a garbage schedule, beating the Giants, Jets, and Jags. It's like when Texas Tech would be 4-0 to start every season having played schools most people had never heard of. I mean, I guess I feel better than if they had lost to the trash pile teams.

If the Mountain West hypothetically loses Colorado State and Air Force to the American, and Boise State to the Big XII, then you still have nine football playing teams. They can just play a standard eight-game conference schedule and pit the two best teams in a championship game. I doubt UTEP and NMSU bring enough to make it worth splitting any money with them. I also have my doubts about calling up any FCS schools.

They could maybe try and snag the other C-USA Texas teams, which worked with TCU, but Rice, UNT, and UTSA are decidedly not TCU.

10 minutes ago, Geoff said:

Listening to this week's Going For Two and Matt said it sounds as though Colorado State and Air Force is all but finalized. Seems as though there are two main considerations: geography and the future of the MWC. It's a helluva lot easier and cheaper to fly your softball, track, etc. teams to places like Dallas, Philly, Tampa, New Orleans, etc. than to Honolulu.

Sounds like they just shouldn't schedule those sports against Hawaii then since they're a football-only member.

29 minutes ago, Dilbert said:

Would UTEP leave CUSA for MTN West?

 

Yes, and C-USA wouldn't try and stop them either.