bosrs1

Have there been any updates on what will happen to the Colorado Eagles or who will be the new Islanders ECHL affiliate? What about the Las Vegas Wranglers' return from hiatus?

http://www.mynews3.com/content/news/story/echl-las-vegas-wranglers-fold-hockey-jacobs/Al7fga6YeE2vG-MT5jDi5w.cspx

They're done.

This was posted over on a different website, but it's very interesting. Particularly as a response to the knee jerk reaction some on the east coast have had that this is just another hockey sunshine state move that is doomed to fail...

The average attendances for the ‘14-’15 season thus far are listed below for the 8 cities involved in this move that currently have teams.

ECHL Ontario 7,235
AHL Manchester 5,571
ECHL Bakersfield 4,648
AHL Norfolk 4,553
ECHL Stockton 4,438
AHL Adirondack 3,586
AHL Oklahoma City 3,443
AHL Worcester 3,355

As you can see, the west coast cities that are involved support their inferior ECHL teams pretty damned well. Ontario will be an upgrade crowd wise over the leading AHL team Manchester. Stockton is almost 1,000 more fans a game than Glen Falls. And Bakersfield is even more compared to OKC. Of course San Jose and San Diego don’t currently have minor league teams so they are wild cards but the last ECHL iteration of the San Diego Gulls averaged 5,841 in their final season (‘05-’06) and were never lower than 4,591 in their first and lowest attended year in the old WCHL in 1995. So at worst they’d be a push compared to Norfolk and San Diego would likely also be an improvement seeing as the former WCHL and the current ECHL are lower level league than AHL.

Seems this move makes sense not just from a proximity standpoint, but also from a fan and fanbase building standpoint as well. Both local AHL fan base and regional NHL fan base in the case of the Sharks, Ducks and Kings.

Sports reporter in Rockford asked someone with the IceHogs on how the Pacific movement would impact them, and the spokesperson basically said they'd replace some eastern-ish road games with some western ones. So it looks like the Pacific 5 may not be completely insular. Maybe each of the other 10 West teams takes a swing through California with a game or two at each stop.

May only be a one year thing too if the rumors of the Coyotes, Canucks and Avs bringing their teams west come to fruition next year. The West could survive as a pretty insular division in that case.

Far more? Is that due to the inhouse ATP tourney? The suites above the arena bowl is the issue which made you "cry in verse" yesterday. That's their primary revenue restrictor.

What SAP brings in from Fresno and south for concerts, Oracle books from the north bay.

Now back to spare pro hockey.

"cry in verse"? Not sure what that means but I didn't mention anything about the suites yesterday.

And yes SAP center hosts more events than Oracle. That's not news to anyone who is from or lives in the Bay Area. Oracle hosts so few events that its a money loser for it's owner (the OACCA). So much so that they're actually concerned about its future viability as a venue once the new SF arena opens and steals what events it still gets. Meanwhile SAP Center turns a profit annually and hosts more non-sporting events than any other arena in the western US.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_25645511/oakland-new-competition-spells-trouble-oracle-arena

Why is that so hard to believe? If anything the Worcester team will be a simple date filler but not a money maker. It's at best a neutral proposition which is why it won't last long.

And does San Jose really need an NHL team and AHL team?

No, but the poor widdle Sharkie-warkies were having a wah-wah because it took too long to fly some guy named "Melker" from Boston to San Francisco.

It really makes a lot of sense, from the arena's perspective.

I've no idea how many shows/concerts/whatever make stops in all three Bay Area venues: SAP Center (San Jose), Cow Palace (San Francisco) and Oracle Arena (Oakland). Nor do I know the SAP Center's annual calendar during hockey season. For at least seven months, they likely have ice on the floor every single day, from mid-September to mid-April. Just to have the ice on the floor (this does not include any maintenance) costs $15,000 per day. The arena's normal house lights cost like $22 a minute to operate.

If the SAP Center doesn't have many events during the hockey season other than Sharks games, having a second hockey tenant that you own can at least sell some tickets for those that can't afford NHL prices for another 30-ish dates.

Actually SAP Center has plenty of events, far more than the competitor venue in Oakland. The Cow Palace doesn't host much of anything anymore. It's a 75 year old relic that needs to be demolished badly... The real competition will come in 2017 or 2018 when the new SF arena opens.

I've heard the Hitman play on the Flames ice in the Saddledome... that's really something.

I'm also guessing that the center ice logo at SAP Center will still be the NHL Sharks. Would they switch out the logo for the AHL team? Or is the AHL team going to be shark-based too?

It'll be Shark based. If I were a betting man I'd put money on the little Sharks being renamed to some variant on Sharks. Be it the Spanish word for Shark or some derivative or kind of Shark in English.

Basically the exact opposite of what I hope happens in San Diego. While I'd prefer Gulls, as long as it's not Ducklings, Mallards, Mighty Ducks or something like that I'll be happy.

Will the San Diego team be the Admirals as well? San Diego has a bunch of Navy folks. If that happens, and Norfolk receives a team to be called Admirals...that's 3 minor league hockey teams with Admirals as a name.

Hoping for San Diego Gulls.

And does San Jose really need an NHL team and AHL team?

It can be guarenteed it won't be the Admirals. The AHL Admirals now former owner is retaining the rights to the name and going to use it for the new ECHL team. So there will be either a Norfolk or Hampton Roads Admirals next season in the ECHL. The Ducks will have to find a new (or old) name in San Diego. Hopefully they go with the San Diego Gulls. It's by far the most popular choice on the poll the UT San Diego is currently running with a clear supermajority.

As for the Sharks... this seems like it's going to be a short term thing until there is an acceptable AHL venue to move into. Oakland once the Warriors move out, SF along side the Warriors or the new Sac arena along side the Kings would all work when they're completed in a few years.

Well here's the official announcement. Everything shook out as predicted.

http://theahl.com/ahl-approves-formation-of-pacific-division-p196033

LA is swapping ECHL and NHL affiliates. The Ontario Reign are now in the AHL and Manchester Monarchs are ECHL.

Oilers moving AHL Barons from OKC to Bakersfield, and the Bakersfield ECHL club is likely going to Norfolk

Anaheim is buying the Norfolk Admirals of the AHL and moving them to San Diego

Calgary is moving their AHL from Glen Falls, NY to Stockton, CA

San Jose is moving Worcester Sharks to their home arena in San Jose.

The owner of the Alaska Aces says they're going to be just fine...

http://www.adn.com/article/20150128/amid-expected-ahlechl-shake-aces-here-stay

For now. Doesn't surprise me, I mean flying to the west coast or the mountain west is equally as costly for them so if they're eating that cost now that's not going to change. What might change is who is willing to fly up to play them and eat the cost on their end unless the Aces subsidize all their incoming competitors.

Ok, so here's what I've gathered from the AHL Western Conference shuffle news today, as well as news from the past several months.

LA Kings - Manchester Monarchs will relocate to Ontario, CA while their ECHL affiliate will relocate to Manchester.

The Manchester Monarchs and Ontario Reign are expected to keep their respective names after the move, so essentially the leagues are swapping franchises. Manchester Monarchs will join the ECHL, and Ontario Reign will join the AHL.

Edmonton Oilers - OKC Barons will fold, new AHL franchise/affiliate to be placed in Bakersfield, CA.

The Oilers now own the ECHL's Bakersfield Condors, that team will get promoted upto AHL

San Jose Sharks - Worcester Sharks will relocate to San Jose, CA

They couldn't find another building to put AHL affiliate in, so both teams will be playing out of the SAP Center.

Anaheim Ducks - Norfolk Admirals will relocate to San Diego, CA

Calgary Flames - Adirondack Flames will relocate to Stockton, CA

ECHL's Stockton Thunder who are affiliated with the NY Islanders will move to Glens Falls, NY (Adirondack)

Vancouver Canucks have 1 year left on their affiliation agreement with the city of Utica, which afterwards (for the 2016-17 season) will likely move their AHL team to the West coast as well.

Winnipeg Jets are rumored to be moving their AHL affiliate to Thunder Bay in the near future, possibly in time for 2016-17 season.

Former Central Hockey League franchises, the Arizona Sundogs and Denver Cutthroats, which are respectively owned by the Arizona Coyotes and the Colorado Avalanche, could either be future ECHL or even AHL expansion teams in time for 2015-16 season. Both former CHL teams are currently on hiatus, as they both decided to go dormant for the 2014-15 season after the CHL+ECHL merger, with expectations of resuming business in 2015-16.

The AHL press conference to announcement the creation of a the AHL West will be tomorrow (Thursday Jan 29) at 12:30PM PST from the SAP Center in San Jose.

related news article - http://mayorsmanor.com/2015/01/updated-ahl-west-official-announcement-set-for-thursday/

You did miss one thing. The current ECHL franchise that's in Bakersfield will be moving to Norfolk and will become either the Norfolk or Hampton Roads Admirals. The current AHL Admirals will be moving to San Diego as you mentioned but will be taking up a new moniker (or old if they go with the prohibitive local favorite Gulls).

I thought the Bruins were looking to move their ECHL club to Worchester.

That was the rumor. So Worcester might not get left out of this after all.

That and despite someone's assertion above that the tank wasn't built to last, it really was. It's still a gorgeous venue today that has all of the bells and whistles the Sharks need. And it has been updated pretty regularly since it opened. But I imagine the Sharks will come asking for a larger renovation or a replacement in the next decade or so.

The arena is fine, except for the part about how it's not really going to be fine much longer. Geez, does any organization get more blowjobs for less than the Sharks?

Arenas and stadiums that are fine (and really don't need to be replaced) are replaced all the time. Lest you believe a place like Turner Field actually needs to be replaced? Fact is the Shark Tank is a fine venue, and the Sharks continue to make bank off of it as it is the only arena in the largest city in the Bay Area (or for 50 miles in any direction), and will continue to do so if it is renovated further. They won't get that kind of sweetheart deal in San Francisco since the Warriors will be too busy paying off their private financing.

Speaking of replacing arenas that are worn out pieces of crap however... how's Calgary doing replacing the Saddledome?

Hmm, so looks like the ECHL will have another realignment for 15-16

Yeah we're all focused on the AHL aspect of it... but the ECHL is going to be as equally realigned after next year with a fair chunk of the western division moving east too. And it won't be over for 15-16 either with Winnipeg, Arizona, Vancouver and Colorado all with the potential to follow the other western teams in moving their AHL affiliates west. Makes me wonder how long a team like Alaska in the ECHL can hang on with the entire Pacific time zone worth of teams now gone from the ECHL. And the potential for one or more of the lower 48 western ECHL teams to be gone next off season.

I'd be very happy with the Sharks moving downtown and leaving the Shark Tank to a minor-league team. It's getting old, and relative to its contemporaries in Chicago, Anaheim, and St. Louis, I wouldn't exactly say it was built to last. I haven't seen anything that suggests that the new Warriors arena will accommodate a full hockey bowl, though. Have you? I was afraid it was going to be basketball-specific.

bosrs, I think he's saying that the Bakersfield ECHL team, having been evicted by Edmonton's AHL affiliate, will move to Norfolk to replace Anaheim's AHL affiliate, which is moving to San Diego. Gotta love trans-continental bi-league musical chairs!

Nothing official. Did see an article in last June that the Warriors could still make their new arena hockey ready, but no word on if they are contemplating it. The city of San Jose really loves the Sharks, but the potential for a new, more lucrative deal could lure Plattner away from San Jose. So far though, he hasn't mentioned anything, just read it in a few news articles, including a Mark Purdy article, which I've found and you can read here. Make your own conclusion about the article. Also for S&Gs (or to ruin your day, read the comment section of the article - I personally find most of them hilarious - especially the ones about moving the Sharks to Seattle.

Wait, maybe I shouldn't laugh I don't know if I could root for the Seattle Sharks that play across the street from the Seahawks.

The last news I've heard was talks between higher ups at Comcast in Philadelphia and Bettman to the Sharks a better TV deal weren't fruitful/have stalled".

Yeah and a new arena isn't going to change the TV situation for the Sharks. The big thing though, is that the Sharks have full management control of the Shark Tank in San Jose. And they get a cut of everything that goes on there. The same wouldn't be true at the Warriors arena in SF. They'd simply be a tenant of the Warriors and would lose all that ancillary revenue. It's a prime reason the Sharks won't be moving to SF beyond the fact their monied corporate sponsors and season ticket base are also in the South Bay (not to mention the bulk of their ownership).

That and despite someone's assertion above that the tank wasn't built to last, it really was. It's still a gorgeous venue today that has all of the bells and whistles the Sharks need. And it has been updated pretty regularly since it opened. But I imagine the Sharks will come asking for a larger renovation or a replacement in the next decade or so. And San Jose, being as happy as they have been with the arena as it exists today, will oblige if the Sharks are willing to put in their share. Which is where the "little" arena at Sharks Ice makes no sense to me. Why would they waste money on something like that knowing it has little purpose...

Condors' Twitter account mentions hockey in Bakersfield "for years to come"

With what we know, the Bakersfield-Norfolk-San Diego-OKC shuffle looks like this right now:

Step 1: Move Norfolk (AHL) to San Diego

Step 2: Move Bakersfield (ECHL) to Norfolk

Step 3: Fold OKC

Step 4: ????

Step 5: Team in Bakersfield!!

When should we be expecting this AHL news conference again?

OKC's not "folding" per se...they're moving to Bakersfield.

Yea, bad parsing of wordage there. "Ceasing operations" is not the same as moving teams. Granted, the Barons are ceasing operations in OKC, but the franchise itself won't be going away.

But that's another debate that's IIRC been discussed in another thread.

Looks like the board of the AHL voted as expected and approved the west coast division. Norfolk has been sold to the Ducks and will be moved to San Diego. The other moves will occur as predicted. Formal announcement is on Thursday.

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/ahl-oks-west-coast-division-ducks-will-move-admirals#

So nothing else is new? Just the 5 California teams (San Diego, Bakersfield, Stockton, Ontario, and Sharks Jr.)?

Terrible move by the Sharks BTW...

Don't think anyone expected anything new. These were the moves that had been long rumored. 5 teams coming at once is a lot. And of course there's still the potential for a few more teams like Arizona and Vancouver to move their AHL affiliates west later. But 5 is definitely a good start. And I agree, all the cities chosen make good to great sense... except whatever San Jose is up to. But I suspect San Jose is only doing this short term. There are plenty of potential options that will be forthcoming in Sac, Oakland, San Francisco or even San Jose itself that make more sense long term with the forthcoming arena shuffle in NorCal with the new SF and Sac arenas coming soon, the small arena proposed in San Jose at the Sharks practice facility, and Oakland becoming available after the Warriors bail.

Looks like the board of the AHL voted as expected and approved the west coast division. Norfolk has been sold to the Ducks and will be moved to San Diego. The other moves will occur as predicted. Formal announcement is on Thursday.

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/ahl-oks-west-coast-division-ducks-will-move-admirals#

one of the leagues most popular teams.

Are there charities that benefit from your generosity?

Indeed. But I wasn't being generous. Until this season the Sharks sold out more than most teams.

I've been hearing whispers one of the reasons, (besides the Worcester bad attendance in the middle of Bruins country) is that this will ensure San Jose has a hockey team when the parent NHL club move to San Francisco, when the Warriors arena is built and be the San Francisco Sharks. (I've heard previously, rumblings of the Sharks looking to move because of a bad TV deal, but no real agreement on where).

Now, a few years ago, I would have said that the Sharks are never ever moving to SF, but their lease at SAP Center is up, and they've got a bad TV Deal. I'm not saying the Sharks are moving to SF, but a lucrative deal that puts the Giants blocks from the Warriors and Sharks 10-15 blocks away would be tremendous for the city of San Francisco. While it's three different sports and the Sharks would be the only NHL team in San Francisco, I still don't know about being in a city with two other high profile teams and sharing a facility with at least one tenant.

However with the 49ers down the road from the Shark Tank, and the A's contemplating moving to San Jose, it's hard to imagine the Sharks just packing up and moving north. Because then you have a NHL-ready building either housing a AHL minor league team or no hockey at all just sitting there across from Diridon Station.

Capacity for Warriors new arena which I'm going to call Mission Bay Coliseum is estimated to be 18,000. Compare this to SAP Center at San Jose (17,562) and Oracle Arena (19,596).

Anyway, just dropping some NHL "gossip"...

Only issue, SF Arena isn't planned to be hockey ready. It would be another Brooklyn which obviously isn't ideal for one of the leagues most popular teams. Particularly if you're moving them 50 miles from the heart of their fanbase and corporate base to another metro area.

Now it became official. Norfolk is going to California but they're getting Bakersfield & returning to the ECHL.

http://wavy.com/2015/01/23/norfolk-admirals-owner-forced-to-sell-team/

After weeks of rumors regarding the future of the Norfolks American Hockey League franchise, Norfolk Admirals owner Ken Young confirmed to WAVY Sports Director Bruce Rader that he is being forced to sell the team to the Anaheim Ducks.

It is not a happy week for Young, who 11 years ago was considered the savior of Hampton Roads hockey when he bought the AHL Admirals, keeping them in Norfolk. NHL owners, have decided they want their top minor league teams closer to home, so this weekend the forced sale will be announced. Young said the Anaheim Ducks will move the franchise to California at the end of this season.

We didnt have any choice, Young said. It was either keep a team that would not have an affiliation, so we would not have dates or have to sell to Anaheim, which if the Pacific division gets voted on by the American Hockey League this weekend then what we know as the AHL team will end up going out west.

That is the bad news, but here is the good news for hockey fans: Young has already cut a deal to bring the Bakersfield Condors to Norfolk. The Condors are a minor league team owned by the Edmonton Oilers.

Where are you reading that the Admirals are going to Bakersfield? There's nothing supporting that in your link and the strong rumors were SD, not Bakersfield. Bakersfield was going to Edmonton.

Watch it be something like San Jose Sharks 2, kinda like the MLS-US PRO with Timbers 2, Galaxy II, Whitecaps 2, etc.

Actually they've said it won't be Sharks. That's the only name we know HAS been ruled out. They don't want to create any market confusion or take away from the primary team. It seems to be the Tiburones someone suggested might be what they're going to go with. It's the same, yet different. Doesn't require a logo change at all from the big club.

It still looks good, but they ruined the neon sign vibe that the original updated logo had. I preferred the orange as well. Disappointing.

Being that they're now the A's AAA affiliate can't say I'm worry to see the orange and black go. It didn't feel right having their top minor league team wearing their cross town on and off field nemesis' colors.

Still, wherever they end up, I pray they keep the original Sharks logo!

If it's San Jose, they'll almost certainly adopt the current NHL Sharks logo - otherwise they'd have to repaint the logo at center ice on every changeover between the NHL and AHL Sharks.

They'll probably go with a different uni style and a variation on the Sharks name for the AHL team, in order to differentiate it from its parent club/arena-mate. Tiburones (Spanish for "Sharks"), perhaps?

Yeah they've said they're going to rename the team, but not to what. But it'll undoubtedly be Shark related but distinct. The old Sharks logo it appears though will unfortunately die with Worcester. I for one will be sorry to see it go. I never warmed to the new one.

Am I the only one who would kinda like to see the San Diego Mariners come back? WHA history aside, it'd make sense and would subtly recall the franchise's prior history as the Norfolk Admirals.

Being in SD I get the sense the Gulls name coming back is a must. The old Gulls didn't close down for lack of local support but rather owner indifference. That and it makes sense having one water foul as the minor league team of another.

Hopefully they can get the OK from the junior hockey Gulls...then again, they're the Ducks, so they can throw some good money towards them to get that going.

As I mentioned on some thread, $100,000 would be more than enough to buy back the rights to the moniker.

The Jr club does currently own "San Diego Gulls" as a trademark since last August (they used it for years despite being in possible violation of the original holders). But the ECHL still owns "Gulls San Diego." Either way I figure the ECHL will play ball with the AHL given their relationship. And the Jr Gulls will take a small buy off for their shoestring operation no doubt.

Am I the only one who would kinda like to see the San Diego Mariners come back? WHA history aside, it'd make sense and would subtly recall the franchise's prior history as the Norfolk Admirals.

Being in SD I get the sense the Gulls name coming back is a must. The old Gulls didn't close down for lack of local support but rather owner indifference. That and it makes sense having one water foul as the minor league team of another.