bosrs1

Ballpark Business is reporting that the Nogales Desert Ghosts of the all-but-defunct independent American West Baseball League have apparently been resurrected as the Yuma Desert Ghosts of the proposed indy Western Association of Professional Baseball. Flynnagain Productions is responsible for designing the team's new logo package.

http://ballparkbiz.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/nogales-desert-ghosts-and-new-league-take-on-yuma/

Another year, another proposed SW baseball league. Call me when they fold before every playing a game.

Welcome back to the front of the line, white-panel hats!!!

I know they never disappeared completely, but since the Orioles decided to bring them back they now seem to be in every new set... even those where they obviously do not fit...

(and I love some of the designers' lame excuses explanations for including the white-panels: "Oh, it's part of the team's heritage, because in 1981, when the team was located in Poughkeepsie, a hot-dog vendor at the stadium mistakenly wore an Expos hat with a white panel... so, there you go!!!)

It's a terrible time we live in...

The Lake Monsters white front cap is pretty sweet I think. Also all of this merchandise sells, and teams know when they hire Beandoise they get top work, so it keeps happening.

Also I think everyone hires them to piss y'all off.

I'm not a fan of white panels normally, but this one seems more forced than most.

Vermont is a definite upgrade, but looks like Yoshi joined TMNT

I was thinking the same thing. It really does look like someone used the 1980's version of the TMNT as a base for what they were designing.

You know what's literally a world away from LA? Mars.

I thought Mars attacked though... Does that mean they're in Orange County?

The Rays just need to move to downtown Tampa and get this whole "what if" thing over with.

Now with that crazy St. Pete mayor out of office, I think some real progress can be made.

The Bolts never have attendance issues downtown in a market (or plainly, a complete region of the US) where hockey isn't exactly the hot topic at the sports bar. They still thrive somehow and I think it is because of the surrounding population and accessibility to all.

Maybe all of this "what if" talk is good and is what the Rays organization wants...maybe it is just a bargaining chip in getting the city of St. Pete to let go and realize this team isn't the St. Pete Rays...it's the Tampa Bay Rays. I have a slight inner conflict in where I do believe a contract should be honored, but this is just getting ridiculous.

I really just think a lot of people outside of the area don't understand how much there is to do around here besides a baseball game or other sporting event. I mean, it is still 80 degrees here during the day...we aren't trapped in our homes from the cold and snow begging for a reason to get out.

So what you're saying is that Tampa is the east coast answer to San Diego?

It's a separate region for sure, but "literally a world away" is a bit over the top.

Nitpicking much?

Seriously though, I write a big long post making several salient points in response to another person's and the specificity of the words in one sentence is the part people want to debate most? Particularly when they don't actually dispute the overall theme of said sentence?

Orange County which is literally a world away from LA.

OH NO NOT AGAIN

What? Anyone who disputes that Orange County is a de-facto separate region from LA both culturally and simply because people from Orange County can't easily get to LA, has obviously never been there.

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

Right. Somebody's got to be last, but the Rays are a very competitive, exciting and young team which has made the playoffs four out of the last six seasons; one which plays in the AL east, meaning a quarter of their home games are against NY or Boston, which gives them a huge bump from those teams' transplant fans coming out. Somebody's got to be last, but it shouldn't be the Rays.

Given they're still a young franchise, they play in the second dumpiest stadium in the league, and are also distant from the bulk of their fan base in a region that is largely transplants, they're not doing half bad. It takes a generation to develop a dedicated fan base. Particularly in an area that already has fans of other teams. They're not unlike the A's in that regard. And indeed that's why both teams are trying to make similar moves to better locations within their own market which will solve some of their respective problems.

There is a one in a billion chance the Rays will move to Jersey, let alone Newark. However, if they do move to Newark I would have to change teams, because I would want them to succeed and thrive in NJ.

Interesting. I would wonder how many Jersey fans would react to that. You've been a Mets fan since the 1980s and I figured it may be hard for you to turn that around (and maybe it would be harder than you think).

But my guess is there may be a lot of people like Tank. After all the Ducks, Clippers, Mets, Angels, A's and maybe even the Devils, Nats, and Ravens all came into areas that probably had a semi-local team that dominated the fandom and they all have fans. It may be a simple as people in Jersey having a much easier time getting to Rays games than Mets games. I certainly think it could be a draw to kids, but I still wonder how easy it would be for adults to just switch from Yanks or Mets to Rays.

All that said, I don't see it happening.

Difference is though that all the teams you list didn't come into areas with their own teams already or came into areas that recently acquired their other teams.

The Ducks formed in Orange County which is literally a world away from LA.

The Mets came into a market that had recently been vacated by two other NL teams leaving scores of Dodgers and Giants fans teamless (they didn't all just jump to the Yankees during the 5 years NYC was w/o NL ball).

The Angels were formed in LA not 3 years after the Dodgers moved in (and indeed the Angels were also a continuation of a brand from the PCL that had existed in LA long before the Dodgers ever showed up) so it's not like everyone had been cemented in as a Dodger fan already. And then to top it off they moved down to Orange County which is essentially its own market a few short years later.

The A's moved into Oakland which again isn't entirely the same market as San Francisco and only did so 10 years after the Giants showed up.

The Nats again don't play in a market that was serviced by an existing team despite Baltimore's TV claim to the area. Indeed DC had 2 of their own teams prior to the Nats.

The Ravens too didn't move into anyone else's market. They in fact filled a big hole left by the Colts years earlier.

The only two you're probably somewhat right on are the Clippers and Devils. And with the Clippers because they came late to another team's obvious market in LA it took them decades to form their own fan base of any significance. And that was only in the last 10 years they really made progress on that. The Devils too aren't exactly an attendance powerhouse and are an occasional move threat because they came into a market already served by a long time historic franchise (the Islanders were probably too distant but they too suffer some of the same problems of the Devils).

If a baseball team came to Northern New Jersey today they'd always be seen as the third fiddle team in the New York area, not as a New Jersey team. And their attendance and TV viewership would suffer accordingly not unlike the Devils and Islanders. I wouldn't be surprised to see a NJ based team quickly fall off in the attendance standings back to near Tampa levels after a few years when the novelty of a new team wears off.

What about Memphis or NOLA?

Isn't the Memphis metro area about half the size of their existing one in Tampa? And NOLA is even smaller.

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

When said attendance isn't terrible it most certainly is...

18,000+ a game despite their stadium challenges is not terrible by any measure. We're not talking the 7,500 a game the Expos were getting in 2001 which was and remains truly terrible. That was more than enough justification for moving the Expos. 18,000+ in Tampa is not.

Link: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/scott-boras-rays-move-new-jersey-tampa-bay-yankees/

Not that anyone cares what a superstar agent thinks, but - hey... Agents, I guess, are the utmost standard bearers for fully "free markets".

Discuss.

Good thing that baseball's executives don't think much of Scott Boras.

Funny thing is too his justification is that they're last in attendance. What he doesn't mention is that they're aveaging nearly 19,000 a game. Yet he makes it sound like they're the Expos who were averaging 7,500 at one point in the early 2000's. Fact is someone is ALWAYS going to be last, that's the nature of a list. Doesn't mean it's justification to move. Particularly when a decade ago 5 other teams had attendances lower than what the Rays had this year.

1. The motor on the lower left...does it have an eye, or am I seeing things?

2. What's the significance of the bird (or whatever it is) and wings on the top right?

I will admit that I like the color combo and the two secondary wrench logos.

Big downgrade from their old duds and their actual highway themed look.

El Paso Times poll is showing only 11% of respondents like the name. 87% dislike it or think it is offensive. Even with the online skew I don't think that's the auspicious start they were looking for with their new franchise. I wouldn't be surprised in a month if we're talking about a new brand for this team.

Native & current El Pasoan here.

On one hand, I totally understand the naming conventions of minor league baseball. Theyre supposed to be fun, tongue-in-cheek names. EP Chihuahuas fits.

I hate to be THAT guy....but on the other hand I find myself being puzzled by this name. Currently, there is an active push to change the perception of El Paso. One of the most commonly negative perceptions of EP is that it is too "mexican", not "american" enough. The owners of the team, while non-hispanic, have been leading the charge for change. They have donated a tremendous amount of time and money to improving the city (donating $$$ to medical school, UTEP, charities, etc.)

So with that in mind, I am confused as to why they would go with this particular name. If they're actively trying to change the negative perceptions of the city, did they not stop to think that their choice reinforces one of the key ones? I'm all for paying tribute to our roots and heritage, but I strongly feel there are better ways to do this.

Am I looking at this the wrong way? Am I taking it too serious? Are they trying to encourage people to "own" one of the most negative perceptions of the city? Thought?

No you don't seem to be alone. The prevailing sentiment I'm seeing online and off is very negative toward the name. It's being seen at best as pretty pathetic using a rat dog as a mascot, and at the worst being seen as downright racist and/or backward. Not seeing how they could have screwed this up any more than they did.

Big Mac, Diablos is not in consideration right now for El Paso's new moniker. Sun Dogs, Desert Gators, Chihuahuas, Buckaroos, and Aardvarks are the five pitiful finalists the team owners selected.

They hinted at the final mascot choice yesterday.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_24307856

Arizona Coyotes doesn't sound as good as Phoenix Coyotes. Same terrible franchise, worse name.

Sounds about right for the NHL. Plus I can understand why the name is required to change. Why should Phoenix get their name on the team when they haven't spent a dime on it?

I don't even.

I'm missing something aren't I...

Speaking of Seattle getting screwed out of stuff. Yesterday was the final day of their original 5 year MOU with Clay Bennett regarding the Sonics' team history being jointly shared if Seattle got a team back in the 5 years after the move in 2008. Since that didn't happen starting today the Seattle SuperSonics history, titles, etc... are all the sole property of the Oklahoma City Thunder whether Seattle gets a new team or not. So no more "joint history" concerns on the basketball front up there. Sorry Seattle but...

Arizona Cowboy dude is going to try and start a referendum. It's not over yet!

Yes it is. He's started about a dozen referrenda over the 'Yotes. He's yet to finish one.

Well, you guys really :censored:ed yourselves over for the future, and for what? Hope you're :censored:ing happy, Glendale.

Good night. It was entertaining and this thread will be going strong for the next 5 years.

5 MORE YEARS! 5 MORE YEARS!

By the way, should we change the thread title to Arizona Coyotes now?

Well there it is, 4-3 for sure now. It's going to pass and we get another 5 years for sure of this lunacy.

This is pathetic. I don't know what else to say.

Which part. Can you be more specific?

Well this one is over. It's already 3-1 for the deal (whichever deal they end up voting on (it sounded like it was the no-opt out for the city deal when they read it)). Sherwood, Martinez and the Vice Mayor are definite yes and Alvarez is definite no. Hugh and the Mayor seem wishy washy and the other guy is being silent but odds are one of them will vote yes and it'll be done.

5 more years of this insanity. Hopefully the city of Glendale goes bankrupt before then.

Welp, RSE invoked the firefighters and is dropping random numbers to indicate the team will be a financial success. If the council folds on the out clause issue they should be executed for gross public malfeasance.

Why would they invoke the firefighters? And which ones did they invoke. Invoking Glendale's is a bad move because they'll take even bigger cuts WITH the team than they will without it, the city's own analysis backs that. And if they brought up the 19 who died they should be dragged out of that meeting and beaten.

Well I hope you have a stick handy because its the latter.

Are you kidding me? What a bunch of no class :censored:tards. What was the context they brought them up, not that ANY is acceptable when they're begging to suck money from the public teat.

To provide convenient crocodile tears.

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We seem to be relying a lot on parking fees here. It's a good thing I think public transportation is illegal in Arizona, or if it isn't Glendale's too broke to build a public transportation system.

Problem is they're only relying on parking after the first 2000 cars.