See Red

18 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

Give me one scenario where players are going to celebrate like that during Spring training. I'll wait.

I'll give you THE METS doing it.

He's a professional athlete that got hurt jumping up and down two inches off of the ground.  It's a freak injury that could happen doing any number of things.  If there was a rash of pitchers needing Tommy John surgery because they overexerted themselves in higher leverage situations than they would otherwise be facing, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Would be a huge overreaction to what looks like a very flukey injury that could've happened in Spring Training or playing with his kid or walking down stairs.

1 hour ago, Indigo said:

I want the Bucs to trade up to get Anthony Richardson (just so that their QB room would be 2019 UF's QB room all over again.)

For what it's worth, Richardson wasn't on the 2019 team. It was Franks, Trask, and Emory Jones. 2020 was Trask, Emory Jones, and Richardson.  Plus walkons, anyway. 

I'm hoping Trask gets a shot, personally.  People forget how great he was at Florida in 2020 (against an all-SEC schedule) because he had the misfortune of having one of the worst defenses in the country and a head coach who effectively checked out for the bowl game and wrs that actually checked out. 

I'll also just add my thoughts on Richardson. I wouldn't touch him as high as he likely goes.  I give him a pass in some regards because I think he played hurt last year at times and couldn't/wouldn't run but he gets too far into his own head when things don't go well.  Can make some insane throws and then miss the easy ones. Freak athlete but not as effective of a runner as he probably should have been -- don't know if it's his vision or what.

I also don't know that his 2022 season is an accurate reflection of his skill or potential. It felt like he decided he was entering the draft after the hype he got after the opening game and then just coasted knowing his measurables would make him an early first rounder. 

41 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I have watched that play many times.  It so perfectly embodies the type of contact that should be legal that I put the clip aside just so that I could use it as a reason to revive this thread.

 

If a receiver could legally push off in the manner of the receiver in that clip, playing defence would certainly be harder (which is a desireable thing); but it would by no means be impossible. The defensive back would just have to be stronger than the receiver, or else he'd have to concentrate on out-positioning the receiver on a ball that is underthrown or overthrown.

 

 

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the principle at work is that it's the offence's damn ball, so the offence should be in an advantageous position with respect to going up for a catch.

You're asking the defender to stop on a dime from a full sprint while being pushed. To defend that play, the defender would need to defy physics.

47 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Note that I am not advocating that the offensive player be able to wrap the defender up and throw him to the ground, or push him in the back.  I am saying that the receiver should be able to push off the defensive player's chest or (as Willis did here) push off the defender's side.

 

It should be a formalised principle that there exists some level of contact that the receiver can initiate but that the defensive back cannot initiate, an good example of which is contact of the type that is shown in this clip.  For an analogy, look at the line of scrimmage, where there is a degree of movement that is allowed only to a defensive lineman but not to an offensive lineman.

It would be impossible to play defense. Watch that play again and consider how easy that completion would be if the WR didn't have to be subtle with his push-off

3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

This is what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

That move by Damion Willis of Seattle should be perfectly legal.

 

Hard disagree on that one.  It would be awful if wide receivers could just two hand shove defenders to catch a ball. It would make it impossible to play defense.  How would you defend anybody one-on-one knowing the offensive player could just shove the defender away as the ball arrives?

Stoops's dad died from a heart attack on a sideline while coaching, which was a big part of his retiring from OU relatively early. I imagine the XFL let's him scratch the coaching itch in a mostly stress-free way. 

This is going to be a rough season.  RB is just so far above and beyond.  Ferrari continues to waste Leclerc's talent.

Max is going to break his wins record.

I would think his mediocre college career would be the thing that scares teams off. 

I remember San Diego's AAF team drew pretty bad crowds. They "officially" averaged 20k per game but I haven't seen a single picture where it looks like they have even half of that. But still a better choice than Las Vegas, I guess. 

Would love for one of these leagues to succeed, but when you're hoping people are football-hungry enough to watch Jack Coan vs Paxton Lynch at QB... not ideal. 

Making all the fans sit on the non-shaded side in Orlando is just brilliant.

Hoping they crack down on the exposed carbon and limit it to floors and other areas that have gone unpainted in the past. This is the worst the grid has looked in recent years because of all of the black.

People are acting like it's common for there to be games called super tight where there's four or five of these calls every game and since they didn't do that, they shouldn't have called that one. The reality is that they flag defensive holding a little over once per game.  So most of the time when they call defensive holding, they "let them play" the rest of the game and it's the only time they call it.  If you pull a receivers jersey as he comes out of his break, it's going to be a penalty.

Bradberry was about as beat as you'll see an NFL player on that play.  Even with the hold and JuJu not coming out of his break cleanly, he was still wide open. That's an easy TD without the hold. 

Also, that was a cool launch for Ferrari. Had actual fans there, didn't have the stale corporate event feel, and they actually ran some laps.

Cautiously optimistic for this year as a Leclerc fan.

33 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

Looks like Merc is our last chance to do something different.  I hope they go back to the black livery.  At the very least hope they drop the highlighter yellow and bright blue accents for each driver.  

I hope they stay silver since the grid is way too dark as-is and they're called the silver arrows. Although stripping their car and just having exposed carbon fiber would be appropriate too. 

Already tired of exposed carbon fiber but the Ferrari looks very good. Love the Ferrari on the rear wing.

1 minute ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Last night was the first time I ever heard officials holding the ball so the defense could make substitutions.

 

Might absolutely have been the correct call by the book; it was just something I had never heard done before. And both times they made that call, they were holding the ball for the Chiefs to get set. It just feels weirdly paternal to me.

 

Again, holding the ball for the defense to make subs might be a normal thing but it stuck out as odd to me.

It's very common for the official to stand over the ball to allow the defense to sub.  The defense is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to subs since they have to react to offensive personnel, so the rules allow them to do so without having to worry about getting caught with too many men on the field.

What happened last night is on one play, the Eagles didn't actually sub, to my knowledge, but since the play went out of bounds to the Eagles sideline, it gets treated as if they did. Philly wanted to quick snap to avoid a potential review and did, but the refs shouldn't have allowed it. On an another, the Eagles subbed late and the refs have to provide KC the ability to do it. 

2 hours ago, Burmy said:

Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post, but with Chuck Howley finally getting inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. it would've been a perfect year for another MVP to come from the losing team.

 

Jalen Hurts' performance was one of his most solid yet, and he kept the Eagles in the game as long as they did.

Yeah, but I think that would've been a slight to Mahomes, who was fantastic on a bum ankle (and didn't have an unforced fumble recovered by the other team for a TD).

6 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

Which is my entire point. So I have no clue why people were arguing me about that.  

It sucks we got the ending we did, especially because it was a call they hadn't made all game. 

Right call or not (which in this case it was) still not the way anyone (other than Chiefs fans) wanted the game to end. 

 

Because you're arguing they shouldn't have called it because it was anticlimactic, which is nonsense.

Be disappointed about whatever you want. I had no dog in this fight.  I'm disappointed we didn't get to see a final Eagles drive too. But there was a penalty on a pivotal play and they should have called it and they did.

I don't see the logic in thinking they missed a call that benefitted Philly earlier so they should've missed another one that would've benefitted Philly.  These guys know the rules.  They know you can't grab a receivers jersey as he is coming out of his break. 

4 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

But the Ref was the one that threw the flag, after not throwing a flag for any other clear holding calls in the game. 

 

Except there is no such thing as a fairly called game.  Every game has bad or missed calls. 

 

Except it wasn't consistent with how the refs had been calling holds during the game. Which is not at all. 

 

It was the right call sure, but it sucks that the only one they called is the one the gave us such a lame duck of an ending. 

 

Good game. Ending sucked. 

Don't know why people are trying to argue that. 

I'd like to see all of these other clear holds they missed all game. More specifically, I'd like to see the ones where an out-of-position defender grabbed a receivers jersey as he was coming out of a break.

14 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

If you don't think that was a terrible, anticlimactic ending to the game, IDK what else to say. 

It just sucks when games are decided by penalties rather than the players.

It was decided by the players. The official didn't pull JuJu's jersey. The player did.

And yes, it was anticlimactic.  But if I had to choose between a game being thrilling and a game being fairly called, I'll take the latter.

14 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

Like the Bucs - Falcons game this season. when a Roughing the passer is what decided the game. I recall people being pretty pissed about that, and not just Falcons fans. Of course there are dozens of other examples. 

The problem with roughing the passer is how it's enforced. That call was consistent with how the league has instructed the officials to call roughing the passer. The problem is how the league has instructed the officials to call roughing the passer is garbage.

This was a jersey grab on a WR coming out of a break by a defender who was in poor position. It's very consistent with how defensive holding is called in this league. 

Edit to add an unrelated comment that the league should stop letting players push the QB forward on QB sneaks. 

8 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

The game would be far more different , and a hell of a lot more boring  if they made every call 100% of the time. 

It sucks when refs are the ones to decide the outcome of games like that. 

 

Understanding they can't call every infraction, they should try to get the ones that have a larger impact on the game correct.  On this one specifically, the defender was out of position on the play and had no safety help over the top  on a pivotal play and frankly, those are the ones they should call.  "The call was correct but they shouldn't call it because it made the finish less exciting" is such a non-sense take.  That would be rigging the game.

But the refs say he held him, JuJu says he was held, and Bradberry says he held him.  So what the  are we even whining about here?

Just now, DoctorWhom said:

Who is supporting rigging? I'm supporting letting players play, so we can have an exciting game. 

 

Was it the Right call? Yes. 

Does it suck that a game like this had such a lousy ending? Yes. 

 

I don't get why both of these are such controversial statements. 

Because getting the call right at the cost of an exciting finish is 100% what should happen in sports and you're suggesting they do the opposite.

24 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

So you want the NFL to be more boring than it already is? Gotcha. 

Besides, If they were being "consistent", they probably would have let that hold go. like they had done earlier. Which is why Bradberry thought he could get away with it. 

 

Or is that not the "consistency" you want? 

I don't think them missing a blatant one earlier in the game means they should have swallowed their whistles on one late in a game, though.  And, fwiw, the Chiefs did have a drive end with a pretty blatant hold not called, so it's sort of a wash, I guess.

Looking at it more, I've reversed course and I'm fine with the call.  It was a borderline call, sure.  But there was a clear grab and it happened on a play where Bradberry was out of position and beat with no safety help.  Wish the broadcast showed this angle -- felt like they focused it more on what Bradberry did as JSS turned up field.