Sykotyk

11 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

  

It's too bad if Oakland ever gets a team back, they won't be able to be called the Athletics, if the franchise belongs to Vegas, even though they were the Oakland Athletics since 1968.

But they did it, too. This is like someone stealing your car, and they're really sorry they stole it, but they need to drive to work so they're going to keep it. But totally feel bad for taking it.

22 minutes ago, WestCoastBias said:

 

And so that means Oakland after over 50 years can't identify with those colors and the name? Same with the Dodgers and LA? Giants and SF? Braves and Atlanta?

I think ownership of a term/name/logo/colors is really dependent on origination. You can love the Giants or Dodgers all you want, but they're not San Francisco's and Los Angeles'. They're just there currently.

It's the same as the Rams. They started in Cleveland. Cleveland essentially spoke with their support that they wanted to get behind the new team the Browns and not the defending NFL champions (if you can believe that). So, Rams are wherever. Nobody outside St. Louis cared that the Rams were leaving STL just as nobody really raised a huff over the Rams leaving LA before that. They're a vagabond now.

Now things like the Colts or Oilers, yes. Those had a bit of a harshness since they had been in their two cities since founding, and it was a lot harder for fans to accept that their old name was never returning. This isn't the 20s and 30s where teams moving and taking their name with them was a matter of finances of not replacing uniforms or equipment. Today, even the city name changing is a huge PR move that will probably be followed by a slightly changed/tweaked logo/uniform.

But once a team moves and keeps the name, the name travels with the team no matter how long it plants itself in its current city.

1 minute ago, habsfan1 said:

Vegas' MLB team should create their own identity, instead of recycling Oakland's former teams.

 

I get that the football team has been in the league for a long time. But to be completely honest, I'm not a big fan of how Las Vegas Raiders sounds as a new Vegas brand identity. If it was my team, I would want a proper identity fitting with Montreal, instead of taking another franchise and swapping city names.

Philadelphia Athletics. Kansas City Athletics. Oakland Athletics. Las Vegas Athletics.

Oakland Raiders. Los Angeles Raiders. Oakland Raiders. Las Vegas Raiders.

Yes. Oakland's identities.

4 hours ago, Digby said:

In fairness I guess to Chicago, are there any public transit systems in America that haven't fallen off a cliff since COVID?

 

Also are there any NFL markets where people DO regularly take the train in? I guess MetLife has those NJ Transit trains from Penn. I've always got the sense though that the NFL in-person clientele is even more car-dependent than the other Big Three pro leagues.

The line has been closed for repairs since Covid basically, but the RTA in Cleveland had the blue/green lines extend to the stadium on game days. Was nice parking out in Shaker Heights or Warrensville Heights, or even closer inside the city such as at E55th or and just pay a couple bucks each to ride in. But the ride after the game was abysmal. The RTA NEVER had the trains running quickly from the stadium. Why? Don't know.  They should be lining up a few or have two connected instead of one double set.

But now you get off at Terminal Tower and walk the 0.8 or so miles to the stadium. Still cheap. But not as friendly.

28 minutes ago, Glover said:

I've seen this logo making rounds on social media. I like it better. The collar has more white which adds a bit more balance to it, and it takes away one of those weird flaps/wrinkles on the right side of its face to make it look a little less awkward.

Then someone needed to submit it. 

This was a contest among fan submissions and fans voting. As a Browns fan I like it. I also like the subtleties in it. 

It would've been disingenuous to hold this and then not use the one submitted and chosen by the fans. 

6 hours ago, Cujo said:

But it's coming back next season, right? 

 

 

We don't know how much of that is startup costs, and how much were annual expenses. As well as what they were projected to lose compared to what they did lose. No business is a success year one. None. Especially since part of their expenses would be buying the league for Vince, and then sitting on it for a year before actually even playing a game.

MLS took decades for the whole league to be successful. And if you want to talk about the losses from earlier seasons funded mostly by AEG, they might still not be in the black.

24 minutes ago, RyanMcD29 said:

Eh, Rochester's in both the Sabres and Syracuse basketball spheres of influence for the winter, plus more importantly there's no real corporate support outside of Wegmans there since Kodak and Xerox went belly up 20 years ago. Given the Bills and Sabres were both on shaky ground in the past 20 years, there's probably a zero chance of the NBA of all leagues ending up in WNY

At this point, almost every major market that doesn't already have a team has big red flags. And even those with teams are probably at their breaking point.

14 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

if ABQ gets an MLS team, it probably won't be New Mexico United.  It would likely be a generic "New Mexico FC"

Land of Enchantment FC

1 hour ago, tBBP said:

 

Agreed on the MLS support; that's ABQ's (and, for that matter, New Mexico's) best bet at a top-level pro sports franchise. That said, with the expansion fees creeping ever close to that "B" mark (that'd be the "billion" mark), it's gonna take, as stated, a WHOLE LOT of money from some group of somebodies somewhere who want to see MLS—or a theoretical NBA team—in NM, and I don't know who, if anyone, in NM got loot like that. That said, ABQ may be isolated geographically, but it ain't like it's the only town around; Santa Fe is barely an hour north and I believe people from Las Cruces could be persuaded to roadtrip three hours north for the right reasons. (I base that off having spent a fair amount of time in all three locales and elsewhere in NM.)

One obvious factor is calling the team 'New Mexico' and heavily marketing the Las Cruces and Santa Fe areas, as well as peppering the other small cities like Gallup, Santa Rosa, Roswell, T&C, etc try to and garner support (some teams will have "(distant city) Day" where they'll discount tickets and paper the town with discounts to get fans from that area to come out for a game.

Another way MLS could work is to A) MLS team to Albuquerque and put the MLS2 team in Las Cruces and have the same identities to try and draw fans in to supporting the other.

Funny thing is that Las Cruces is more associated/rivalry with El Paso, which has a slightly larger market size. Clearly MLS could be supported in El Paso, but it's never seen as a big city due to its remoteness and that it's far more transient as a border town and that not a lot of money in the city to support a major league team in pretty much any league.

1 hour ago, tBBP said:

 

 

We can scratch this one right now. DSM, even as a metro, doesn't have anywhere near the population base—or dedicated wealth. And before someone brings up market size in comparison to OKC, recall that the only reason OKC has that team is because the owner who moved the team there was from OKC. College sports, though, are a big thing there. (And by the way, Ames isn't that far from DSM; it's barely 40 miles. Iowa City on the other hand is a good 120 or so—and yet even with that 80% of DSM still sports the black rather than the cardinal with their gold.)  

Yeah. DM is definitely a long shot. Iowa being a major farming nexus of the country means there's a lot of money but it's thinned out over a lot of people and you don't have a ton of 'uber-wealthy' people to consider bringing a team to town. AAA/AHL/AFL seems to be the top of the level for them.

1 hour ago, tBBP said:

Speaking of moving teams, I'm going to again advocate my case for Omaha...though, in reality, much like the OKC situation it'll take an owner[ship group] with some kind of ties to the Omaha area to move one there (or fight like a mug for a future expansion franchise, which I just can't see happening unless the money is more than right). It's about 370 miles from the next nearest current NBA team (the T-wolves—and we'll see how long they stick around, hence the "current"), which means that like the KC Chiefs they can enjoy a large swath of territorial support, and the town is practically frothing at the mouth for their own pro sports team, whatever it may be. 

 

(Wait—is this the season thread or the pointless realignment outpost? )

Chiefs definitely draw from much of the Great Plains as 'their team'. And with their success, there's a lot more KC fans all the way up in SD and Fargo/Bismarck than there ever was where it was staunchly Vikings territory. Even areas where Denver had a lot of sway (Wyoming, western NE, NE NM) you see Chiefs stuff far more often than just bandwagoners. They relate more to KC being the 'plains' team. Other than Colorado, you don't see any Denver fans around the plains like you used to. It's much more mountain states (Utah, CO, northern NM, Cheyenne/Laramie). Also thanks to Denver losing their appeal after the Manning blip in success.

Omaha could definitely support a team, but I just don't see that market supporting basketball as a whole. You can look into that as much as you want. But Omaha would probably much rather have Baseball OR hockey. Baseball with 81 games is just not going to happen. NHL could happen. Especially with KC vacant. Football is king in that area, and amazing that the Omaha Beef are in their 24th season of indoor football in the city. Their success has varied over the years bouncing from arenas at times. But that's a ridiculous longevity for a sport with as much turbulence as indoor football.

On 6/7/2023 at 2:17 AM, kimball said:

 

I'm kind of there with you as well. I feel like Seattle can be the NBA's proverbial "Location Threat" for teams that need leverage for public money, while I can see Las Vegas eventually getting a team, but not until the Commissioner's Cup is established and running for a couple years.

 

There's no rush.

 

However, as far as possible locations outside of Seattle and Vegas ...

• Tampa (seems ideal, but seems too close to Orlando)
• Louisville (untapped market, but is it too close to Indiana?)
• Pittsburgh (mentioned in the past and has a good arena, but is it too small?)
• Kansas City/St. Louis (meh)
• Anaheim (it always seems like they're mentioned as a possibility? The popularity of both the Lakers and Clippers makes this seem like a no)
• San Jose (same situation as Anaheim, just with the Warriors)
• San Diego (I believe they have ground work done for a new arena, but too close to the Lakers/Clippers?)
• Mexico City (The NBA's current infatuation, but there's too many cultural and economic issues that could make it a Grizzlies 2.0)
• Vancouver (The city's situation is much better than it was 25 years ago, but there seems to be better markets)

Possible sexy markets ...

• Albuquerque (could be a sleeper OKC location)

Problem is that New Mexico as a whole is quite poor and Albuquerque is extremely isolated inside the state. There's Rio Rancho/Bernillo and South Valley down to about Los Lunas/Peralta that has population for suburbs, but lacks a lot of the exurbs to draw from. If Albuquerque supports any team, it will be an MLS team. I can't imagine the city latching onto an NBA team and fully supporting them.

On 6/7/2023 at 2:17 AM, kimball said:

• Montreal (I've read of interest in the past, might work?)
• Chicago 2.0 (Arena in the suburbs? I remember talk back in 2001 when the Grizzlies were shopping for a home. Could work.)
• Des Moines (A less sexier Louisville? Basketball crazy state COULD possibly support a team)
• Rochester (I always thought Rochester could support at least one major league team, second shot?)

Montreal is always a possibility. Big enough city. Chicago could definitely support a team out towards Aurora/Naperville/Arlington Hts (where the Bears want to move)/around O'Hare/Hoffman Estates (smaller arena built there that hosted indoor football/minor league hockey). Rosemount area could, as well, but may be a little too close to downtown that the Bulls would go nuts fighting the prospect.

Des Moines would be another SLC/OKC/Sacramento type situation. Try to be the big fish in a small pond. Collegiate sports are big in Iowa, but at least ISU and UI are far from Des Moines. They support minor league baseball (AAA Iowa Cubs) and hockey (AHL Iowa Wild) quite well.

Rochester is an interesting idea. Buffalo owns western New York, but couldn't support a third team. They struggle to keep up with supporting the Bills and Sabres. However, a team in Rochester would siphon a lot of support from Rochester and Syracuse that would be spending sports dollars at U of Syracuse or the Buffalo pro teams. Also draw some basketball fans from Buffalo to them. And grow a new base of fans who may watch on TV Buffalo sports and be fans of them but don't actively spend money attending games might latch on to a Rochester team. And become a regionally aligned team.  There are better options out there, but it is an interesting idea.

It was somewhat the basis the Rhinos had growing soccer in western NY, but they missed the boat not believing that MLS was a viable option. Which eventually killed them. At least for NBA, it would be a known quantity.

GFY San Diego

On 5/18/2023 at 6:37 PM, BrySmalls said:

San Diego FC or FC San Diego

2 hours ago, ZapRowsdower8 said:

BYU won Hip Hop Dance!? 

This would be like UTRGV winning the Frozen Four.

2 hours ago, tBBP said:

 

Well, "CF" Miami is only about a half-degree removed from either, so...

 

...And actually, had they come right out the gate with CF Miami, I MIGHT have been cool with that. Sure it'd have been every bit as derivative,  but it would at least have been halfway unique. Instead, they went the (also predictable) try-too-hard route and tacked "Inter" onto the front for a name that doesn't even roll off the tongue well at all. Ah, whatevs...as if they care what some trucker-type in the northern plains has to say about their silly little name.   They do at least have one of the better badges in MLS, though.

 

And side note, but check it: anyone else notice the two Florida teams, if/when they play each other, will be pink vs purple? That's just hilarious to me on several different levels...

The Inter Miami name is forced, however, as the club's full name by their own badge is Club Internacional de Fútbol Miami.  Even if you abbreviate it some, Inter Miami is still overlooking a lot of the rest of the name. it would be like  team taking the name "Association Football Club" aka AFC, and a team calling themselves "Houston Association FC"...  Something about it feels so wrong. Internacional describes the type of club, rather than the name of said club.

54 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

The weird ones.

12 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/37805484/ex-usfl-prez-launching-spring-league-high-school-players

 

Woods said his league will use NCAA playing rules and will operate independent of high school state athletic associations, therefore giving players the chance to profit off their name, image and likeness without any restrictions.

 

League officials intend to have a season running from April 19 through May 24 with teams located in Atlanta, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, New Jersey, New Orleans, Los Angeles, Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco, and Tampa, Florida. Woods said he hopes to start hiring coaches in the next two to three months.

Woods said the league could supplement the recruiting camps and 7-on-7 programs that provide recruiting showcases for prospects during the months when they aren't playing high school football.

 

So this looks like those players in the ESPN Top 300 and a few more would be able to play football year round and make some money before college. The fact that it doesn't mention only high school seniors tells me this is capable of blurring a lot of lines for these players. A 6 game season isn't much, but unless those kids made sure to graduate prior to the league games, they'll be missing a lot of school. Will they be placed in a school at those locations, or have a deal with some online academy? As a parent, I would rather my kid not be attending this. Limiting the amounts of hits they'd take even before college, let alone the pros would lead me to think this is just another thing we can do without. And for high school eligibility, that may just go out the window, though some states do allow NIL deals in high school now. 

Many state associations don't allow kids to play on football teams during the off season and then be eligible in the fall. Ohio is one such state. Also not all states allow NIL so they'd instantly be ineligible. And unlike the college fight over NIL the high schools and associations aren't selling the player's NIL for video games, etc. So it would be hard to force many of them to accept this for players. 

Secondly, this league isn't providing insurance and underage kids traveling across state lines for sports dealing with their families insurance or state children's coverage for an injury that might detail their entire playing career for a few thousand possibly from an NIL deal since they're not actually getting paid. 

And which fans will be watching? 

This seems destined for failure. 

12 minutes ago, Unocal said:

This team won 11 of 12 after falling behind 3-1

 

HOW?!

think they spent what they had and now are coming up empty when it matters. I was not expecting this outcome. I think Panthers regroup at home, but even then I still don't see how Vegas gets beat in either of the next two games.

Either Vegas completely relaxes and thinks they can just waltz through the next game and not have to try too hard. Or some fluke goal gets scored at the right time that gives Florida a 2-goal advantage that they can camp out on and force Vegas to tire themselves out in desperation. I just don't see it likely. And not enough for 4 of the next 5.

5 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

 

Interesting little stat. The only Super Bowl that fits this is New England vs Carolina, unless you want to count NE vs NY. It's never happened in the World Series

I thought about the Islanders, as well. But figure the principal city of their market counts.

Funny that the NBA has so many teams with their city name where other sports have a tendency to use the state. Charlotte, Miami  (Marlins started as Florida until TB started basically), Denver, Phoenix, etc. Utah they're the only Big 4 in the city (Their minor league teams go by Salt Lake, Utah, (real) Salt Lake, so par for the course). Even old time Minneapolis Lakers instead of Minnesota. Only one that bucks convention is Pacers cohorts the Indianapolis Colts use the city name rather than state name. Yet, NBA has one of the weirdest ones: Golden State.  Which always feels like a college name to me.

23 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

America’s most trash sports league is about to give America’s most trash city its first pro sports title. Fitting. What a stupid league. 

Las Vegas Locomotives in the UFL won two titles in 2009 and 2010.

Las Vegas Dustdevils won a CISL indoor soccer title in 1994.

Was thinking how this year the Vegas Golden Knights and Florida Panthers both don't use their city's name for their location. One uses a nickname and another uses the state. And thought, well, how often does that happen. And when did it happen last.

Well, easy to forget that Tampa Bay is not the city name, because it happened just last year. With Colorado and Tampa Bay.

But here's the history

2023 - Vegas v. Florida

2022 - Colorado v. Tampa Bay

2001 - Colorado v. New Jersey

1996 - Colorado v. Florida

What is interesting, is that this is the first time not to include Colorado. And Carolina, Minnesota, and Arizona have yet to be part of a two-team non-city finals. Carolina has made it to the finals, just only faced Detroit and Edmonton.

5 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

The location name "Chesapeake" worked only because the nickname "Bayhawks" starts with "Bay", so the full name made "Chesapeake Bay".  That wouldn't be true for any other nickname.

Because otherwise Chesapeake by itself conjures up a connection to one of the other cities in the Norfolk area of Virginia.

11 minutes ago, SpidersReorg said:

 

Redwoods more of northern thing, maybe?

Correct. Sequoia are located in the Sierra Nevada north of Death Valley up toward Yosemite, Tahoe, etc. Redwoods are coastal mostly north of San Francisco to Oregon. Most would associate Redwoods with northern California. 

Sequoia are technically redwoods but most refer to them only as Sequoia. And they're more central or Eastern st best. 

12 hours ago, SCMODS said:

 

Not my prediction but from another site: 

 

Baltimore Whipsnakes 

Columbus Waterdogs

Dallas Atlas

Denver Archers

Los Angeles Redwoods 

New England Cannons

New York Chrome

Toronto Chaos

 

 

 

There's just something really wrong about this combination.

The rest are all servicable.

36 minutes ago, Sykotyk said:

I think the Heat's best shot at a win is game 3. If it's game 4, I don't see them pulling it off down 3-0.

Well, I was wrong. Denver got down by too much but made a valiant comeback to make a 3 point game at the buzzer.

7 hours ago, Cujo said:

Denver has the NBA's best player, the deepest roster in the league and the Heat seem totally gassed after that series with Boston. The Nuggets didn't bring their A-game on Thursday and owned every aspect of that game.

 

This series is over. The only question is: Nuggets in 4 or Nuggets in 5?

 

I think the Heat's best shot at a win is game 3. If it's game 4, I don't see them pulling it off down 3-0.