NCAA football records book meaningless

[rtrich11]

A few years ago the NCAA decided to allow bowl games statistics to count with the regular season stats in college football. While on the surface it might not seem like it makes that much of a difference, but it has already wreaked havoc on the record books.

To put it in another perspective, let's go back to 1998's home run chase. What if the Cubs had made the playoffs and Sosa could add to his home run total, perhaps surpassing McGwire. Would this be fair to McGwire, who had played the same number of games up to that point?

I did a little statistical digging and found that the first year bowl stats were allowed, 11 players set school rushing records. Many of folks are only running for 120 yards a game, so this was very much out of the norm. Look up the highest passing yardage totals and almost all of them are from players who were in 13 or 14 games. Does Texas Tech's Kliff Kingsbury deserve note for passing for 5,000 yards in 2002 if he barely passed the mark in a bowl game, his 14th game of the year? Why should someone on a bad team get shafted in the record book?

Was Oklahoma's Quentin Griffin better than Heisman winner Billy Sims? Griffin holds the OU yardage record, but had the benefit of a conference championship game and a bowl-14 total. So Billy Sims and the rest of the greats go down the list because of a ruling that favors newer players playing only on bowl teams.

It's not just bad teams being punished. Don't forget that Northern Illinois' Michael Turner played on a 10-1 team and didn't go to a bowl. Had he, he would have eclipsed 2,000 yards and entered an elite company.

The solution: Stop using bowl stats in the regular season.

I wrote the NCAA's stat director, Jim Wright, a few years ago and all he could say is that it works in basketball. Well, basketball is a per-game sport. Football is about totals.

If you agree with me on this, feel free to write Jim Wright at the NCAA. I'd love to hear if he responds to a bunch of mail about this.

NCAA, 700 Washington St., Indianapolis, IN 46206

[OnWis97]

I think also that they do not retroactively add bowls to older records. For example, I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Timmy Chang's record includes bowls, but the qb he beat out does not get his bowls counted and if they did count, Chang would have fewer yards (at least at the time he broke it).

[CityOfWalrus]

I think also that they do not retroactively add bowls to older records. For example, I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Timmy Chang's record includes bowls, but the qb he beat out does not get his bowls counted and if they did count, Chang would have fewer yards (at least at the time he broke it).

actually In the Northwestern game also saturday Chang broke detmer overall passing record of 16,206yards that includes bowls and chang with his bowls has 16,251 yards so hes is now the all-time passing leader including bowls for both players.

[See Red]

Yeah, but I think it's well documented that Timmy Chang sucks and had all sorts of extra games to set this record.

[CityOfWalrus]

Yeah, but I think it's well documented that Timmy Chang sucks and had all sorts of extra games to set this record. 

hey ITE why don't you go back to that s*ithole you came from? you piece of crap your nothing but a hater! you sad cuz hes got talent and your tall, goofy @ss doesn't! hahaaha jerk.

by the way my signature was made by that waste of space ITE

[See Red]

You think I'm gonna miss out on a chance to take a cheap shot at your favorite Quarterback?

[rockchalk]

While I don't like the idea, I've accepted it. However, I do think it's kinda stupid to not have consistency in the record keeping. If they want to include bowl data, go right ahead, but go back and change every record you've ever had along with it. Otherwise, stick to what's worked for 100 years.

[OnWis97]

I think also that they do not retroactively add bowls to older records.  For example, I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Timmy Chang's record includes bowls, but the qb he beat out does not get his bowls counted and if they did count, Chang would have fewer yards (at least at the time he broke it).

actually In the Northwestern game also saturday Chang broke detmer overall passing record of 16,206yards that includes bowls and chang with his bowls has 16,251 yards so hes is now the all-time passing leader including bowls for both players.

I wasn't trying to dis Chang. Now he beat Detmer including bowls, but look at your sig--it references the official record--less than Detmer. It should be more consistant.

[rtrich11]

What's even more unfair is that in Division 1AA they include the whole playoffs. Some guy from Colgate got 2,300 yards on the year. In 16 games! What a joke.

I think when they added the 12th game to the schedule in 2002 and 2003 it even tilted the field more. They will do that again and I think THAT would be an acceptable time to cut the bowl game stats.

That Jim Wright guy initiated this idea and it won acceptance by maybe 1 or 2 votes. What a dork. Write Wright. As for not retroactively adding bowls, he told me they didn't want to have to tell someone they didn't have the record any more. Well, with this system, no player before 2002 will hold on to records long anyway. I weep for you, Ron Dayne, Charles White, and the rest. You will be obsolete.

[rockchalk]

As for not retroactively adding bowls, he told me they didn't want to have to tell someone they didn't have the record any more. Well, with this system, no player before 2002 will hold on to records long anyway. I weep for you, Ron Dayne, Charles White, and the rest. You will be obsolete.

Yeah, that makes sense. We don't want to have to be the bad guys and tell a few players that their all-time stats aren't records anymore because of a change in bookkeeping, so we just won't add them and all of their records will be broken in five years anyway...[Tommy Flanagan voice] Yeah, That's the ticket [\voice] Then nobody will be upset!!!

[OnWis97]

That Jim Wright guy initiated this idea and it won acceptance by maybe 1 or 2 votes. What a dork. Write Wright. As for not retroactively adding bowls, he told me they didn't want to have to tell someone they didn't have the record any more. Well, with this system, no player before 2002 will hold on to records long anyway. I weep for you, Ron Dayne, Charles White, and the rest. You will be obsolete.

As a Wisconsin grad and Ron Dayne lover (I care what he did at UW, not as much in the pros, though it is somewhat painfull, with all the bad press), I admit that when someone breaks his record because of this, I'll be upset. I should not be, but I will.

Not only does Dayne have the most I-A yards ever, but I am 99% sure he has the most Bowl rushing yards ever since he is the only RB ever to rush for at least 200 yards in more than one bowl game (he did it in three: Copper, Rose, Rose).

So the addition of bowls will vault someone over Dayne one day, but nobody will ever reach his regular season, plus bowls, I suspect.

Oh well, I was there when he broke the record (and UW clinched its first outright B10 title in decades) and no silly NCAA bookkeeping is going to take that away.

[OnWis97]

Write Wright.

[CityOfWalrus]

I think also that they do not retroactively add bowls to older records.  For example, I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Timmy Chang's record includes bowls, but the qb he beat out does not get his bowls counted and if they did count, Chang would have fewer yards (at least at the time he broke it).

actually In the Northwestern game also saturday Chang broke detmer overall passing record of 16,206yards that includes bowls and chang with his bowls has 16,251 yards so hes is now the all-time passing leader including bowls for both players.

I wasn't trying to dis Chang. Now he beat Detmer including bowls, but look at your sig--it references the official record--less than Detmer. It should be more consistant.

I know you weren't and Ill be updating it when the seasons over cuz its worthless to keep making a new sig every week

[See Red]

I think also that they do not retroactively add bowls to older records.  For example, I think (someone correct me if I am wrong) that Timmy Chang's record includes bowls, but the qb he beat out does not get his bowls counted and if they did count, Chang would have fewer yards (at least at the time he broke it).

actually In the Northwestern game also saturday Chang broke detmer overall passing record of 16,206yards that includes bowls and chang with his bowls has 16,251 yards so hes is now the all-time passing leader including bowls for both players.

I wasn't trying to dis Chang. Now he beat Detmer including bowls, but look at your sig--it references the official record--less than Detmer. It should be more consistant.

I know you weren't and Ill be updating it when the seasons over cuz its worthless to keep making a new sig every week

I thought I remember hearing on ESPN that he played in a few games in his very first year, got injured and was allowed to be a medical redshirt or something like that, and the stats he got in those games counts towards the record. Maybe I'm thinking of someone other than Chang, though. But if that was the case, and I'm not completely making some up, there's not much they can do about that scenario.

[yh]

Most of the records are going to be rewritten anyway because chances are pretty good that the regular season is going to expand to 12 games in the next couple of years.

[rtrich11]

I admit that when someone breaks his record because of this, I'll be upset. I should not be, but I will.

Write the stat guy and tell him. Maybe he'll shed a tear.

  Most of the records are going to be rewritten anyway because chances are pretty good that the regular season is going to expand to 12 games in the next couple of years.

Even more reasoning to tell them to stop adding bowl stats.

Adding to this discussion, I heard that the Big 10s commissioner was one of the people who really favored doing all this. OnWis, he is also your foe.

[rtrich11]

I just found this out recently. The NCAA is considering giving football players a 5th year of eligibility. So you two Timmy Chang and Ron Dayne fans should know your guys will be buried in obscurity in about 5 years.

I also found out that it isn't the coaches who want the 12th game added to the season (further goofing up the books), it's the school administrators for the $$.

[CaolinaJoe]

I just found this out recently. The NCAA is considering giving football players a 5th year of eligibility. So you two Timmy Chang and Ron Dayne fans should know your guys will be buried in obscurity in about 5 years.

I also found out that it isn't the coaches who want the 12th game added to the season (further goofing up the books), it's the school administrators for the $$.

It's all about the money. Always has been. Major programs have had, for the most part, abysmal graduation rates for 30+ years. It stopped being about education for them a long time ago.

As far as a 5th year goes, who cares. If the guy is still there, more than likely he is a student/athlete. So he is using it to get an education. Most athlete/non-students are gone by then. Failed out or gone pro.

[NJTank]

Yeah anybody who is really got pro talent will be gone by the 5th year.

[CityOfWalrus]

I just found this out recently. The NCAA is considering giving football players a 5th year of eligibility. So you two Timmy Chang and Ron Dayne fans should know your guys will be buried in obscurity in about 5 years.

I also found out that it isn't the coaches who want the 12th game added to the season (further goofing up the books), it's the school administrators for the $$.

but for someone to break changs record of 17,072yards they would have to:

1.) Play in a 70% pass first playbook

2.) Start from freshman and almost play every game till they graduate.

3.) Have a strong group of WR (UH lelie and owens)

4.) they would have to be fairly talented..