An alternate NHL

[CJR]

I don't know how many people here are into alternate history at all but it's late and I can't sleep so I figured I'd give it a shot.

The idea behind AH is that you take one event and change it, then see how changing that one event would change history. A lot of people like to do it with the CSA winning the American Civil War, for example. This kind of thing is also called a "What If?" (and has been featured in a book by that title).

The question I'm posing is "What if the Quebec Nordiques did not move to Denver in 1995?"

So far, all I can think of is the following timeline...

Summer 1995

A possible deal involving COMSAT Entertainment Group purchasing the Quebec Nordiques falls through. The Nordiques pledge to remain in Quebec for at least two more seasons, continuing to ask for a new arena.

December 3, 1995

Patrick Roy demands a trade from the Montreal Canadiens. The Nordiques inquire but Montreal refuses to trade Roy to a division- and province-rival. Roy eventually goes to the Dallas Stars with Mike Keane for Manny Fernandez, Guy Carbonneau and Joe Nieuwendyk.

Spring 1996

The Stars just miss the playoffs after surging since picking up Roy.

Quebec endures a seven-game Eastern Conference Finals series with Philadelphia to advance to face Detroit in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Detroit wins the series in six one-goal games. Goalie Chris Osgood is the Conn Smythe Trophy winner.

Summer 1996

The Winnipeg Jets are sold to COMSAT Entertainment Group and relocated to Denver, Colorado. They become the Colorado Avalanche.

The Quebec Nordiques look to upgrade their goaltending, trading Stephane Fiset and Andrei Kovalenko to the Chicago Blackhawks for Ed Belfour, who had requested a trade after his team's second-straight loss to Detroit in the Western Conference Finals.

The Hartford Whalers trade the disgruntled Brendan Shanahan to Detroit for Mike Vernon and Keith Primeau.

Spring 1997

The Quebec Nordiques best the Hartford Whalers in an Eastern Conference Finals goaltending duel. Mike Vernon and Ed Belfour combine for five shutouts in the series, won by a Joe Sakic goal in the final moments of Game Seven.

The defending champions are content to rest on their laurels, and the Dallas Stars take advantage of that in the Western Conference Finals, eliminating Detroit in five games, including three shutouts by Roy.

After few thought the goalie matchup in the ECF could be matched, Belfour and Roy create a series for the ages. The Nordiques defeat the Stars in six games, all decided by one goal and four in overtime. Belfour is the Conn Smythe Trophy winner.

Early Summer 1997

Bouyed by their recent success, the Hartford Whalers strike a deal for a new stadium. They had breifly been courted by Raleigh-Durham but a letter-writing campaign by fans convinced the local governments to give the team a deal to keep them in town.

After seeing Denver successfully take the Jets and Raleigh-Durham attempt to get the Whalers, Quebec gives the Nordiques a new arena to keep them in town.

June 25, 1997

The NHL announces that the league will expand to 30 teams by 2000. With the success in Texas of the Stars, the NHL adds a franchise in Houston for 1998. Atlanta will join in 1999, with a southeastern partner in Raleigh joining in 2000 and a return to Minnesota as St. Paul will join that same year.

I'm too tired to go any further right now, just a few ideas of where I'd want to go but not really any facts to base them on.

There were a few ideas I was running with and questions I was trying to answer. The first was that there's no way Roy would have been traded to Quebec, so that deal doesn't happen with the Nords still around. Where does he go and how does it affect Sakic & Co's chances? No Colorado in 1995-96 means no Colorado-Detroit rivalry, what does that do for the Red Wings? (I see them becoming an also-ran in a period of Dallas/Quebec dominance, after the 1996 Cup) With Quebec staying put, how does that affect NHL relocation/expansion?

Feel free to pick up from here, start over on your own from the point of departure, or just give some thoughts.

[ryguy3285]

Here is a challege to somebody what would have happened if the Northstars had not move to dallas

[HedleyLamarr]

Can you have it where Atlanta doesn't select Patrik Stefan with their first overall pick in franchise history?

[CJR]

Here is a challege to somebody what would have happened if the Northstars had not move to dallas

I thought of that as I was going to sleep and wanted to post it before I forgot it. It was actually a whole thing about how do you get it so the NHL doesn't expand to the south/southwest at all.

The San Jose expansion is going to happen no matter what, either by moving the Stars or by the method that ended up being used. Tampa and Ottawa are probably in as well, unless you can come up for a reason for the NHL not to expand at all.

My point of departure is in 1992. After the mess with Alan Eagleson in the NHLPA and the NHL forcing Ziegler to step down, Disney and Huizenga they don't want to be a part of a league in such disorder and attempt to return their franchises set to begin play in 1993. The league realizes that they need to get their crap together and allows it, opting to focus on making in-house changes.

When Norm Green tries to move the Stars to Dallas, the NHL blocks the move, telling him that the league is too busy trying to fix problems without moving into untested markets.

Where things go from there, I haven't gotten to yet. Eventurally you probably have Tampa relocating since there are no other southern teams and Espo's shaky Japanese investors want out. Kansas City? Does Pittsburgh go bankrupt (the first time) if the league is more focused on being better-run early on?

Here's one for someone else: What if the NHL had awarded Eric Lindros to the Rangers instead of the Flyers? You've got three teams with vastly changed rosters throughout the '90s. Would Lindros do better in NY than in Philly? Would Philly be better with Forsberg and Co? Would Quebec have gotten the better deal, and would they have had to relocate?

[CJR]

Can you have it where Atlanta doesn't select Patrik Stefan with their first overall pick in franchise history?

The point is to show what would have happened if they didn't. Who would they have picked and how would that person have done?

[BCBoy]

Can you have it where Atlanta doesn't select Patrik Stefan with their first overall pick in franchise history?

1999 Draft

Atlanta, an expansion team, drafts Martin Havlat number one overall (he ended up getting picked 27th overall by the Sens.) In Havlat's rookie year he nets 27 goals and adds 33 assists to become the 2000 rookie of the year with 50 points. The Atlanta Thrashers fail to make the playoffs, but have found a gem (Havlat.)

And if you want to go overboard...

In the following three drafts, all in which Atlanta got high picks from trading away veterans that were no longer needed, they draft: Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk, Rick Nash and Eric Staal.

How's that?

[ColeJ]

Here is a challege to somebody what would have happened if the Northstars had not move to dallas

they eventually would have gone bankrupt

[Puckguy14]

Here is a challege to somebody what would have happened if the Northstars had not move to dallas

they eventually would have gone bankrupt

We wouldn't tell Minnesota fans to SIT DOWN!

[CJR]

I thought of that as I was going to sleep and wanted to post it before I forgot it.  It was actually a whole thing about how do you get it so the NHL doesn't expand to the south/southwest at all.

The San Jose expansion is going to happen no matter what, either by moving the Stars or by the method that ended up being used.  Tampa and Ottawa are probably in as well, unless you can come up for a reason for the NHL not to expand at all.

My point of departure is in 1992.  After the mess with Alan Eagleson in the NHLPA and the NHL forcing Ziegler to step down, Disney and Huizenga they don't want to be a part of a league in such disorder and attempt to return their franchises set to begin play in 1993.  The league realizes that they need to get their crap together and allows it, opting to focus on making in-house changes.

When Norm Green tries to move the Stars to Dallas, the NHL blocks the move, telling him that the league is too busy trying to fix problems without moving into untested markets.

Where things go from there, I haven't gotten to yet.  Eventurally you probably have Tampa relocating since there are no other southern teams and Espo's shaky Japanese investors want out.  Kansas City?  Does Pittsburgh go bankrupt (the first time) if the league is more focused on being better-run early on?

Here's one for someone else: What if the NHL had awarded Eric Lindros to the Rangers instead of the Flyers?  You've got three teams with vastly changed rosters throughout the '90s.  Would Lindros do better in NY than in Philly?  Would Philly be better with Forsberg and Co?  Would Quebec have gotten the better deal, and would they have had to relocate?

Thought of a bit on how to continue this...

When the 1994 lockout comes around, the NHL is stronger and more centrally-organized. They're able to get the salary cap that they eventually got in 2005 in our timeline.

This means that Pittsburgh can't throw crazy money at Jagr (is it too late for Lemieux? I can't remember when his deal was signed) and does not go bankrupt. Lemeiux never buys the team. Maybe the previous owners, in this different NHL, opt for a new arena is the late '90s rather than just improvements to the Igloo.

The downside is that the whole 1994-95 season is cancelled. Many players head to the IHL to play locally during the lockout, leading to that league becoming the AAAA league that it was trying to become.

You end up with a roughly 20-20-20 split of the available markets between the NHL, AHL and IHL, rather than the 30-30 NHL/AHL split we have today. The NHL dominates the major northern markets, the IHL controls the major southern ones (with a few holdouts on each side, Chicago in the International League, for example). The AHL has the mid-major markets.

[twi]

Pretty interesting to muse about. However, YzerFan, I don't see how some of the things in the first post are related. What effect does Quebec not moving to Colorado have on Hartford not moving to Carolina? And Houston? Dallas was successful anyways, I don't follow that jump either. But whatever, it's interesting to think how things might have gone. That Lindros situation someone brought up would be a doozy.

[CJR]

Pretty interesting to muse about. However, YzerFan, I don't see how some of the things in the first post are related. What effect does Quebec not moving to Colorado have on Hartford not moving to Carolina? And Houston? Dallas was successful anyways, I don't follow that jump either. But whatever, it's interesting to think how things might have gone. That Lindros situation someone brought up would be a doozy.

Hartford doesn't move to Carolina because the Whalers are more successful in 1997 (riding Mike Vernon, who they didn't have in our timeline) so Hartford doesn't want to see them go. They end up getting a new arena out of it.

Dallas was more successful in this timeline than in ours, which helped Houston along. This is actually the part I think is least likely, there's too little time.