Optimus Thread- Apprentice Challenge 4

[Cola]

well I think that the olympic rings are a standard....by the IOC rules the rings prob have to stay with the event colors. if you check the rules and the graphic standards portion of the site, you'll see what I means. either way, it seems we are in agreement here.

[gingerbreadmann]

^^^

rotate your pieces on the left to about 45 degrees and reflect the same with the right side...it will help the negative space better to make the pagoda appear to be viewed from the ground at a 45 degree angle. with your current, it looks more like a straight on. know what i mean?

No I actually don't. You mean basically make it look like yours?

Thoughts on the new colors used above, team? Let's start voicing some opinions so we can get something in concrete here and move forward to discuss the mascot issue- we can simultaneously make any edits after that.

So for right now, I need everyone on the team to comment on these issues:

- logo: which one, dragon heads or abstract pagoda?

- logo colors: olympic ring colors, the newest color options above, or some of the previous posted?

- font: do you like it/are you confident in it?

- font color: is charcoal okay or should we go all the way with black? maybe another color?

i want to get a general consensus of the team's feelings on these issues by tonight.

One of the pagodas, though the dragons could still be improved I guess.

Not olympic ring colors, but not quite the ones we recently introduced

No.

I think we should go black or something else besides the charcoal

[Cola]

Alright, so it pretty much seems (without william's input) that we all share different views of what we should go with in all areas. This isn't a good thing when I planned for the team to finish up this portion of the logo by tonight. If you stated any issues you didn't like, let's see some explanations and hopefully some alternative designs/fonts/color choices. We got the ball rolling really early in this challenge but have seemed to really slow down the past day or two.

[mania]

Just kind of worked on this.

A parade dragon forming 2008.

I figure something like this, could be very over the top.

Keep in mind that's an actual drawing of mine, and I can't draw for .

[gingerbreadmann]

Just a font and color idea. I think we should take more risky colors, as in "out there." Just look at Barcelona and Sydney's logos.

Cola, you could still show me what you mean about the rotating if you want.

I think what I don't like about the font you have been using is that it's too bland and lifeless, and too fat/blocky. It is clean, though I think we should decide whether we want to go clean and modern or more jagged.

[Cola]

Just a font and color idea. I think we should take more risky colors, as in "out there." Just look at Barcelona and Sydney's logos.

Cola, you could still show me what you mean about the rotating if you want.

I think what I don't like about the font you have been using is that it's too bland and lifeless, and too fat/blocky. It is clean, though I think we should decide whether we want to go clean and modern or more jagged.

I love that font...what is it? I think it would work very well.

As far as rotating, I was meaning the angle of each piece- yours are at more of a 10 degree angle while the original I did was more of a 35-40. I think it makes a big difference when looking at it and getting the image into the viewer's mind best. The one you have done looks more like you are looking at a building straight on and level...I was going more from looking at it from the corner (the mirror point) and from the ground. I guess it is just a personal preference I have with it.

Regarding the colors, I just really like the one's william posted last...which is why I did the last concept that way, and I think it looks near fantastic esp with the ad/banner underneath it. In the case of Barcelona and Sydney, I see a need for more than 2 colors- they are highlighting different portions of a body in movement. Here, if we used a single building, the pagoda- separating each level might not be in our favor. That is just my opinion when looking at it though. The colors you posted don't look bad at all, but what would be the reasoning in using 2 red levels and then one green and yellow?

again, i love the font- i think it works very well.

[gingerbreadmann]

Thanks. I understand what you mean now. I revised it to make it skinnier as well as what you said. And here is the font. Phoenix Sans

I guess I can live with the orange, but my main concern with them is that they are too similar and too warm. I think they need to be a little more spread out to give a sense of variety and diversity, and just brighter in general. As for the two reds, I have no reasoning besides I don't think we should have too many colors and I wanted to emphasize red. Though just altering it in Inkscape, I see that (from bottom) R-Y-G-R would have the same effect while spacing things out a little better.

[Cola]

^^

i guess i feel like warm colors represent China well...shades of red, orange, yellow? they used them a lot in the dragon parades and they are featured on the flag. oh no one said anything at all about the banner on the pole...

[ShinyHubCaps]

oh no one said anything at all about the banner on the pole...

This one? I like it a lot, except that the "Beijing 2008" font should be slimmer.

Also, I was thinking about those tortoise mascots... would there be any significance to using two of them? Anything in Chinese culture that is pertinent to the number two, for instance? Those are too good of mascots to pass up, but five is too many and, as mentioned, seems to mimic what China is already doing. This will be the only Olympics with five mascots, when really, having two is more than enough.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Here are some new looks on the dragons. Should we revisit this, I did some different staggering types. Certainly the font would need to be changed, but everything else I tried to make ready for use so we can get another look at it.

This version uses the center dragons stacked similar to the podium at the presentation of medals.

This version is stacked more like how the rings are stacked. I also cut into the sides of the end ones because, if wrapped around, it would resemble an arrow pointing up.

However, the main problem I see with these logos is the choice of mascot. A dragon seems too obvious, while anything else seems contradictory.

That's probably all I have to say for tonight, though I will be thinking of fonts in the meantime. Cola, I trust your judgment enough to pick a logo and go in that direction once all logos are presented. Let's also try not to second-guess our logos to death, as simplicity has been a resounding theme in the last three challenges.

[heernumurr]

Sorry guys, I really haven't been able to give this challenge much of my time recently. I've got a day off tomorrow so I should be able to work on plenty of things then.

This is my favourite idea so far, with a couple of changes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Shi...mpicLogoPNG.png

I wouldn't put the font over the "necks", it makes everything very complicated and I think some of the effect is lost. The Phoenix Sans (I think) font looks great so I'd try that. Also I'd like to make each head slightly different, that's something I'll work on.

As for the mascot I was working on an idea for a friendly looking dragon, but looks like Prodigy have beaten me to it. I'll see if what I've got can be used, but I think the turtle idea would be good. Someone mentioned using just two of them, I havent got time but maybe someone could research the word Beijing, I've got a feeling it's two syllables and we might be able to make something like that.

I would just ask you to bear with me for one more day until I can get the dragon logo updated. If not though I'm still a fan of the pagoda idea, particularly Cola's one in the orange/maroon colour scheme.

[mania]

I don't see why they wouldn't still allow ours, I think they're different enough, and you've at least worked on yours since Wednesday, not Sunday.

[Cola]

Alright, I just want to voice my opinion on the dragon logo for future reference in case in comes back to bite us should we decide to go with it. At first, I admit that I liked the logo as it was colorful and the dragons appealed to me...it was also very early in the challenge and such a great start. With that said, I have grown far from it for a few reasons...none of which are because the next logo was my idea. Basically, as I began to research previous logos (Summer & Winter) I noticed one thing: none of them included a graphic of an animal or anything concrete-looking...that was saved for the mascot, when used. Personally, I feel like the dragon logo would be very cliche and unliked by the judges- it has a "cool" appeal, but maybe not for a Olympic logo...maybe like a tattoo instead.

I also think the logo is extremely busy. While the necks were improved on to make them compliment each other...it still is too busy for my tastes in comparison to other event logos and especially for the largest event logo in the history of human competition.

The next thing is that, while mentioned a few times by others...the dragon logo is difficult to execute unless it is paired with the colors of the Olympic rings...which you also rarely see in an Olympic logo.

I guess the dragon logo just seems really forced to me and what any non-designer would first think to put in a logo describing China...and to that, I think we are better. If my opinion is out of place and not shared by the rest of you, I understand and will certainly go forward and help to solidify the package as best we can.

[gingerbreadmann]

Alright, I just want to voice my opinion on the dragon logo for future reference in case in comes back to bite us should we decide to go with it. At first, I admit that I liked the logo as it was colorful and the dragons appealed to me...it was also very early in the challenge and such a great start. With that said, I have grown far from it for a few reasons...none of which are because the next logo was my idea. Basically, as I began to research previous logos (Summer & Winter) I noticed one thing: none of them included a graphic of an animal or anything concrete-looking...that was saved for the mascot, when used. Personally, I feel like the dragon logo would be very cliche and unliked by the judges- it has a "cool" appeal, but maybe not for a Olympic logo...maybe like a tattoo instead.

I also think the logo is extremely busy. While the necks were improved on to make them compliment each other...it still is too busy for my tastes in comparison to other event logos and especially for the largest event logo in the history of human competition.

The next thing is that, while mentioned a few times by others...the dragon logo is difficult to execute unless it is paired with the colors of the Olympic rings...which you also rarely see in an Olympic logo.

I guess the dragon logo just seems really forced to me and what any non-designer would first think to put in a logo describing China...and to that, I think we are better. If my opinion is out of place and not shared by the rest of you, I understand and will certainly go forward and help to solidify the package as best we can.

I completely agree here. You don't often see the Olympic colors in the logos, and the logos themselves are often very abstract. Not really representing anything really complex or detailed, or so obviously tied to the host city/country. That's why I sort of wanted to get away from the dragon idea and those colors in the beginning, not because the logo itself isn't serviceable, because it certainly is, but because it wouldn't really fall in place as a good Olympic logo based on what previous logos have been like.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Alright, I just want to voice my opinion on the dragon logo for future reference in case in comes back to bite us should we decide to go with it. At first, I admit that I liked the logo as it was colorful and the dragons appealed to me...it was also very early in the challenge and such a great start. With that said, I have grown far from it for a few reasons...none of which are because the next logo was my idea. Basically, as I began to research previous logos (Summer & Winter) I noticed one thing: none of them included a graphic of an animal or anything concrete-looking...that was saved for the mascot, when used. Personally, I feel like the dragon logo would be very cliche and unliked by the judges- it has a "cool" appeal, but maybe not for a Olympic logo...maybe like a tattoo instead.

I also think the logo is extremely busy. While the necks were improved on to make them compliment each other...it still is too busy for my tastes in comparison to other event logos and especially for the largest event logo in the history of human competition.

The next thing is that, while mentioned a few times by others...the dragon logo is difficult to execute unless it is paired with the colors of the Olympic rings...which you also rarely see in an Olympic logo.

I guess the dragon logo just seems really forced to me and what any non-designer would first think to put in a logo describing China...and to that, I think we are better. If my opinion is out of place and not shared by the rest of you, I understand and will certainly go forward and help to solidify the package as best we can.

I completely agree here. You don't often see the Olympic colors in the logos, and the logos themselves are often very abstract. Not really representing anything really complex or detailed, or so obviously tied to the host city/country. That's why I sort of wanted to get away from the dragon idea and those colors in the beginning, not because the logo itself isn't serviceable, because it certainly is, but because it wouldn't really fall in place as a good Olympic logo based on what previous logos have been like.

Agreed. I just tried to introduce a change on the dragons because it sounded like the team was second-guessing the pagoda. I'd say, though, that the problem is not how abstract/concrete it looks. The colors are a problem, but beyond that, I repeat my thought on the mascot. If we have dragons in the logo, we would either a.) have dragons for the mascot, which is too many dragons or b.) use any other animal, which would seem illogical and contradictory on the surface. I agree with William, though, that it would look better with the text at the bottom and things consolidated a bit more. Still, I think it could be the wrong direction.

William, the word for Beijing is two characters. I'll try that with only two tortoises in a few minutes.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Introducing your non-dragon mascots:

Bei and Jing (tentative)

[gingerbreadmann]

Introducing your non-dragon mascots:

Bei and Jing (tentative)

Looks really nice. Should they have maybe some different facial/bodily features or be different genders to allow for, like, separate personalities and such?

[Cola]

Introducing your non-dragon mascots:

Bei and Jing (tentative)

very nice, I like the idea behind having two of them and naming each. maybe we can combine "Bei" and "Jing" with the word for turtle to make it more interesting since two of the mascots this year are named Bei Bei and Jing Jing.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Hmm... I found some Chinese characters for "tortoise" or "turtle," but those don't help me find the pronunciation. Can anyone help?

[gingerbreadmann]

Thanks to my friend:

turtle is wu gui (woo gwee)