East Irvington Clovers - Historical School Branding

[Ben Schwartz]

My town, Irvington, is not large by any means but contains a "vestige" that used to be separate culturally and academically. That part of the town, known as "East Irvington", was largely inhabited by Irish immigrants in the late 1800s and were forced due to size to create their own school called "East Irvington Public School". This part of the town was appropriately nicknamed "Little Dublin" and that nickname apparently still exists today though I never hear it. The school existed through the early 1970s and is currently an apartment building. The area right now is no different than West Irvington, though a lot of mail sent to this part of town still reads "East Irvington"; the history still exists so I wanted to make a concept for East Irv.

I'm going to make uniforms and all that jazz but I wanted to start with this for some C+C first. West Irvington's colors are Green/White so I need to keep orange in this theme. I wanted to stay far away from Notre Dame and I think I did at least that much.

UPDATED 2/19:

[BrySmalls]

Are the West and East Irvington you're talking about located in Westchester County? If so, I'm not sure if "Clovers" compliments "Bulldogs".

[Ben Schwartz]

Are the West and East Irvington you're talking about located in Westchester County? If so, I'm not sure if "Clovers" compliments "Bulldogs".

Yeah, they aren't meant to compliment the Bulldogs at all. This concept is based around East Irvington and it's historical school. If anything these schools would be rivals in sports.

[BrySmalls]

How about a logo of a very angry leprechaun as their primary logo (not like the Fighting Irish)?

[Ben Schwartz]

How about a logo of a very angry leprechaun as their primary logo (not like the Fighting Irish)?

That's what I had originally thought of doing but I don't think it's within my artistic abilities to make one (at least one that looks diff than Notre Dame's). I agree that the Clover itself is probably more like a secondary logo in most situations, but with this theme I think it could work as the primary (especially since I was trying to make it unique from other "Irish" themed concepts).

This is what it would look like on a helmet:

[DeadFish]

I'm feeling like the clover needs some black outlines so that the face looks like it belongs.

At the moment, because the outlines of the two elements are so different they don't appear to be part of the same image.

[Ben Schwartz]

I'm feeling like the clover needs some black outlines so that the face looks like it belongs.

At the moment, because the outlines of the two elements are so different they don't appear to be part of the same image.

I see what you're saying, thanks for the C+C I think adding more black will help the flow.

Do you think this looks better?

Maybe some black creases under the eyes?

[CJworks]

Ben,

Your work is nice, but you need to thicken those strokes! This looks more like an illustration rather than a logo.

[Ben Schwartz]

Ben,

Your work is nice, but you need to thicken those strokes! This looks more like an illustration rather than a logo.

I've heard you say that before and I see what you're saying but in this one what should I thicken? The outside border? The eyebrows and eye shape are pretty thick, and it would look weird if I thickened the eye balls themselves. The mouth is pretty thick. And for the creases in the face it would distort it a bit.

[Ben Schwartz]

I thickened things up but I'm not sure if it helped:

[CJworks]

Ben,

Your work is nice, but you need to thicken those strokes! This looks more like an illustration rather than a logo.

I've heard you say that before and I see what you're saying but in this one what should I thicken? The outside border? The eyebrows and eye shape are pretty thick, and it would look weird if I thickened the eye balls themselves. The mouth is pretty thick. And for the creases in the face it would distort it a bit.

I mean the general design. Don't be afraid to simplify some shapes into one. Let's take the eyes for example. You could put them together and use the the bridge of the eyes to connect them, it may look like a unibrow but it'll look a littl more like a logo.

The outline you used also looks odd; I'm going assume that Photoshop or w/e is very different from Inkscape, and I'm not sure if you could do this, but I'm suggesting that you make the outline come to a point where they meet at the most extreme intersenting angles, like underneath the eyes, in between them, and both sides of the stem. Then thicken the outline.

The shading you have I'd either rework, or drop. It's not obvious enough for anyone to consider, it just doesn't work at all.

You need to work on your styles of design. Simplification could be golden for you at this point. The organic shapes aren't doing much for me at this point. I'd try observing other logos, look at their styles, not their use of like, shape, and color. That's just my opinion, I'd like to see what you can do with it.

[Ben Schwartz]

Ben,

Your work is nice, but you need to thicken those strokes! This looks more like an illustration rather than a logo.

I've heard you say that before and I see what you're saying but in this one what should I thicken? The outside border? The eyebrows and eye shape are pretty thick, and it would look weird if I thickened the eye balls themselves. The mouth is pretty thick. And for the creases in the face it would distort it a bit.

I mean the general design. Don't be afraid to simplify some shapes into one. Let's take the eyes for example. You could put them together and use the the bridge of the eyes to connect them, it may look like a unibrow but it'll look a littl more like a logo.

The outline you used also looks odd; I'm going assume that Photoshop or w/e is very different from Inkscape, and I'm not sure if you could do this, but I'm suggesting that you make the outline come to a point where they meet at the most extreme intersenting angles, like underneath the eyes, in between them, and both sides of the stem. Then thicken the outline.

The shading you have I'd either rework, or drop. It's not obvious enough for anyone to consider, it just doesn't work at all.

You need to work on your styles of design. Simplification could be golden for you at this point. The organic shapes aren't doing much for me at this point. I'd try observing other logos, look at their styles, not their use of like, shape, and color. That's just my opinion, I'd like to see what you can do with it.

Thanks for the advice, I did some of what you said. I took out the shadows and pointed the points of the clover which I like, it makes it look meaner. It wasn't very easy to do, though, I had to adjust the lines a lot to maintain the points (maybe there is an easier way to do it but I don't know how):

[CJworks]

It definately looks better. Have you considered adding the creases in the clover as part of the outline?

[Ben Schwartz]

It definately looks better. Have you considered adding the creases in the clover as part of the outline?

Like this?

Thanks for the help I think it's improving.

[Ben Schwartz]

?

[9erssteve]

It definately looks better. Have you considered adding the creases in the clover as part of the outline?

Like this?

Thanks for the help I think it's improving.

Yes thickening the lines has helped but it's still not enough, what you need to do is also vary the thickness of the lines as they move round your shape.

Take a look at the Miami Dolphins dolphin for example. The keyline round the outside is all the same colour but look how thin it is over the dorsal fin compared with the line under it's belly. This variation in line weight helps add weight and depth to your design and makes the item feel solid. It helps demonstrate light and shade without the use of horrific drop shadows and depending on the software you are using they can be RIDICULOUSLY EASY to do!

If you're working with Inkscape or illustrator it's as simple as drawing, in this case, the inner green leaf, then doing an offset path of that shape to create the dark outline. Then select the dark shape and nudge it down and to the left or right, and JOB'S DONE! Varying line weights round your whole logo and far better looking results than an even weight keyline in less time than it took me to type this! To be honest it may give you better results to start with the outer shape and give the offset path a negative value to create the inner shape but same applies, you dont create outlines by stroking a single shape you create TWO separate shapes and move the outer one slightly behind the lighter one to give the impression of an outline.

Personally I'm not convinced that a four leaf clover will ever be a successful helmet graphic it's just to cutesie for my taste, but I promise you varying the line weights will make what you have right now ten times better so give it a go and keep it mind when producing future logos as it's a well recognised and well used technique of the pros.

9erssteve

[Ben Schwartz]

It definately looks better. Have you considered adding the creases in the clover as part of the outline?

Like this?

Thanks for the help I think it's improving.

Yes thickening the lines has helped but it's still not enough, what you need to do is also vary the thickness of the lines as they move round your shape.

Take a look at the Miami Dolphins dolphin for example. The keyline round the outside is all the same colour but look how thin it is over the dorsal fin compared with the line under it's belly. This variation in line weight helps add weight and depth to your design and makes the item feel solid. It helps demonstrate light and shade without the use of horrific drop shadows and depending on the software you are using they can be RIDICULOUSLY EASY to do!

If you're working with Inkscape or illustrator it's as simple as drawing, in this case, the inner green leaf, then doing an offset path of that shape to create the dark outline. Then select the dark shape and nudge it down and to the left or right, and JOB'S DONE! Varying line weights round your whole logo and far better looking results than an even weight keyline in less time than it took me to type this! To be honest it may give you better results to start with the outer shape and give the offset path a negative value to create the inner shape but same applies, you dont create outlines by stroking a single shape you create TWO separate shapes and move the outer one slightly behind the lighter one to give the impression of an outline.

Personally I'm not convinced that a four leaf clover will ever be a successful helmet graphic it's just to cutesie for my taste, but I promise you varying the line weights will make what you have right now ten times better so give it a go and keep it mind when producing future logos as it's a well recognised and well used technique of the pros.

9erssteve

I'm not sure if I executed but I get what you're saying:

[Ben Schwartz]

Slight wordmark update:

[CJworks]

The logo is improving, but I agree with what 'Niners said. The logo right now is okay, but if you wanna take this to the next level, start blocking in your shadows. You don't just have to outline the clover, make an entirely new shape behind it, and make THAT your outline. vary the line thickness. If it helps, try sketching your logo onto paper, and try different styles and variations of it. When you find one you want, manually trace it in whichever program you use. That's how I do my logos, and I have Inkscape.

I don't know how to explain it, I think 9ers said it best. Hope I helped.

[Ben Schwartz]

The logo is improving, but I agree with what 'Niners said. The logo right now is okay, but if you wanna take this to the next level, start blocking in your shadows. You don't just have to outline the clover, make an entirely new shape behind it, and make THAT your outline. vary the line thickness. If it helps, try sketching your logo onto paper, and try different styles and variations of it. When you find one you want, manually trace it in whichever program you use. That's how I do my logos, and I have Inkscape.

I don't know how to explain it, I think 9ers said it best. Hope I helped.

This is the part I'm not really getting. If I make a new shape (that is presumably all black) and put it behind it, what do I do to achieve varied line thickness? How much more varying do I need then is currently there before it starts just looking unevenly done? Also what is blocking in my shadows

Thanks sorry for all the questions,

Ben