Salem Squirrels - Logo Concept

[GFB]

I used this as my reference picture.

I sketched it on a piece of paper. Then scanned it, and traced it on photoshop. Yes, I did use that logo as one of my references because I was stuck on some parts of it (as this is my first logo), but I did not trace it by no means.

I'm going to cut you some slack because you're new to this, but from here on out I'd rather not hear it used as an excuse.

Trust me, Doug and I have seen this type of thing way too often to not recognize it right away. I can almost guarantee that you first you went out and found a logo you liked (mine) and then went searching for reference images to match. It really doesn't even matter that the pose is the same though, if that was the only similarity I wouldn't be saying anything. The two main portions of the logo however, the face and the tail, are very closely "inspired" by my work. I'm going to give you some advice here and I really hope you take it. Admit that you've made a mistake, and try to understand what it is you did wrong. It's really going to be the best thing for you going forward.

And for whatever reason I'm in a good mood today so I'm going to give you some tips on getting started designing logos.

1. For your first few logos try not to look at any other sports logos for help. It's definitely going to be frustrating, but if you can work through a few designs without getting any help from the work of others its going to help you develop a unique style and make you an overall better designer.

2. This doesn't mean you can never look at the work of others for inspiration. When I started I seriously spent at least an hour a day combing through the portfolios of my favourite designers. It helped to give me a really good understanding of the different ways that shapes, curves and colours could be utilized in a design.

3. Be creative. The best way to get people to notice your designs is to do something different. Your end goal shouldn't be to have a logo that looks like every other one you've seen before. If you're struggling on a certain portion of a logo, instead of looking to another logo to copy something that's been done before, be creative and find a solution of your own. I can guarantee you'll be more proud of the end product if you do this.

4. And finally, practice and utilize this community. Your first logos certainly aren't going to be your best. Keep at it and the process will just keep getting easier. Seriously, my dribbble page is proof of that.

Easy tiger... I remember letting this slide for a while; you eventually figured it out and look where you are now.

[NCCoachArete]

Someone help me out here. I love logos, but I can't draw a lick and don't pretend to be able to. But, I am an educator. It is not unusual for a student to copy the outline of a story or a poem in an initial part of a class, only to tweak it more and more as the process goes along. Sure, at first the story is similar in many aspects (not word for word), but as the student gains confidence and becomes better, they start moving away from others and finding their own niche.

Talking to musicians, they say the same process was part of their development as well. Business owners say the same thing. Famous chefs say the same thing. Many super talented people started honing their craft by copying aspects of other's work as they continued to perfect their craft. I'm not saying they copied and called it their own, but they did copy recognizable aspects of other's works to get them started.

Why is this approach so frowned upon in this genre? Or, is it this site that finds it so offensive.

[mattwillcox]

I used this as my reference picture.

I sketched it on a piece of paper. Then scanned it, and traced it on photoshop. Yes, I did use that logo as one of my references because I was stuck on some parts of it (as this is my first logo), but I did not trace it by no means.

I'm going to cut you some slack because you're new to this, but from here on out I'd rather not hear it used as an excuse.

Trust me, Doug and I have seen this type of thing way too often to not recognize it right away. I can almost guarantee that you first you went out and found a logo you liked (mine) and then went searching for reference images to match. It really doesn't even matter that the pose is the same though, if that was the only similarity I wouldn't be saying anything. The two main portions of the logo however, the face and the tail, are very closely "inspired" by my work. I'm going to give you some advice here and I really hope you take it. Admit that you've made a mistake, and try to understand what it is you did wrong. It's really going to be the best thing for you going forward.

And for whatever reason I'm in a good mood today so I'm going to give you some tips on getting started designing logos.

1. For your first few logos try not to look at any other sports logos for help. It's definitely going to be frustrating, but if you can work through a few designs without getting any help from the work of others its going to help you develop a unique style and make you an overall better designer.

2. This doesn't mean you can never look at the work of others for inspiration. When I started I seriously spent at least an hour a day combing through the portfolios of my favourite designers. It helped to give me a really good understanding of the different ways that shapes, curves and colours could be utilized in a design.

3. Be creative. The best way to get people to notice your designs is to do something different. Your end goal shouldn't be to have a logo that looks like every other one you've seen before. If you're struggling on a certain portion of a logo, instead of looking to another logo to copy something that's been done before, be creative and find a solution of your own. I can guarantee you'll be more proud of the end product if you do this.

4. And finally, practice and utilize this community. Your first logos certainly aren't going to be your best. Keep at it and the process will just keep getting easier. Seriously, my dribbble page is proof of that.

Easy tiger... I remember letting this slide for a while; you eventually figured it out and look where you are now.

Hope I wasn't coming across the wrong way. My post was basically meant to get VolsBoy to try and avoid the type of learning curve that I and a lot of others have unfortunately gone through.

To be completely honest though Matt, you should have laid into me for that.

[VolsBoy]

Thanks for helping me guys! I am sorry for the aggravation. Should I just restart and make a new logo?

[hugevolsfan]

Thanks for helping me guys! I am sorry for the aggravation. Should I just restart and make a new logo?

I would not completely scrap it just differentiate the small details from his & keep practicing

You are doing a good job for someone just starting.

[tjkvb23]

Being someone who just started making logos myself, I think you're doing a great job VolsBoy.

More importantly-I'd be really hesitant to post anything I come up with on here in future. I understand where all the veterans of the forum are coming from but he showed you his process and he clearly didn't rip anyone off. Don't be so quick to judge. You guys all make great stuff and I understand nobody wants people taking their ideas but I'm sure it's really deterring to beginners when they see harsh reactions like the ones on this topic

[drdougfresh]

Being someone who just started making logos myself, I think you're doing a great job VolsBoy.

More importantly-I'd be really hesitant to post anything I come up with on here in future. I understand where all the veterans of the forum are coming from but he showed you his process and he clearly didn't rip anyone off. Don't be so quick to judge. You guys all make great stuff and I understand nobody wants people taking their ideas but I'm sure it's really deterring to beginners when they see harsh reactions like the ones on this topic

If you can't take criticism and learn/grow from it, design ain't for you, amigo. Pure and simple.

In any situation aside from "for fun", you're going to get both positive and negative feedback -- both are very important. The issue I see with a lot of people just starting out is this: gloating over the positive feedback, and defending against the negative. I'd actually argue that the negative is more important to the final product, as a lot of passersby will nonchalantly say "looks great!" without giving it a second glance. You can't always necessarily learn from that, though you can from most negative or constructive feedback.

In this case, people telling him that his logo is too similar to something that was already existing is not judging. Though I may have come off that way in my initial post, I'd say it's fairly obvious that the defining characteristics of this mark are almost direct copies of Matt's logo.

There's a lot to be learned from what has been said in this thread -- whether you read it as an attack or as constructive feedback is up to you. I hope VolsBoy (and anyone else just starting out that stumbles upon this) takes this to heart and learns from it.

[GFB]

I used this as my reference picture.

I sketched it on a piece of paper. Then scanned it, and traced it on photoshop. Yes, I did use that logo as one of my references because I was stuck on some parts of it (as this is my first logo), but I did not trace it by no means.

I'm going to cut you some slack because you're new to this, but from here on out I'd rather not hear it used as an excuse.

Trust me, Doug and I have seen this type of thing way too often to not recognize it right away. I can almost guarantee that you first you went out and found a logo you liked (mine) and then went searching for reference images to match. It really doesn't even matter that the pose is the same though, if that was the only similarity I wouldn't be saying anything. The two main portions of the logo however, the face and the tail, are very closely "inspired" by my work. I'm going to give you some advice here and I really hope you take it. Admit that you've made a mistake, and try to understand what it is you did wrong. It's really going to be the best thing for you going forward.

And for whatever reason I'm in a good mood today so I'm going to give you some tips on getting started designing logos.

1. For your first few logos try not to look at any other sports logos for help. It's definitely going to be frustrating, but if you can work through a few designs without getting any help from the work of others its going to help you develop a unique style and make you an overall better designer.

2. This doesn't mean you can never look at the work of others for inspiration. When I started I seriously spent at least an hour a day combing through the portfolios of my favourite designers. It helped to give me a really good understanding of the different ways that shapes, curves and colours could be utilized in a design.

3. Be creative. The best way to get people to notice your designs is to do something different. Your end goal shouldn't be to have a logo that looks like every other one you've seen before. If you're struggling on a certain portion of a logo, instead of looking to another logo to copy something that's been done before, be creative and find a solution of your own. I can guarantee you'll be more proud of the end product if you do this.

4. And finally, practice and utilize this community. Your first logos certainly aren't going to be your best. Keep at it and the process will just keep getting easier. Seriously, my dribbble page is proof of that.

Easy tiger... I remember letting this slide for a while; you eventually figured it out and look where you are now.

Hope I wasn't coming across the wrong way. My post was basically meant to get VolsBoy to try and avoid the type of learning curve that I and a lot of others have unfortunately gone through.

To be completely honest though Matt, you should have laid into me for that.

Over the years I've learned to pick and choose my battles. You weren't selling it and I figured I'd just take it as a compliment...and besides, I learned to design the same way -- seeing what designers older and better than me were doing and I tried my best to copy it in my own way.

Don't get me wrong, your points are right on and its great advice, but sometimes you need to build up to a certain level of skill before those steps become realistically applicable... I remember being so frustrated that I couldn't figure out where to start and how to get better....

To the poster who started the thread, my advice to you is to keep trying new things, keep pushing yourself, keep persevering. I'm not going to lie to you, you probably won't have a moment of immense clarity and instantly be awesome at designing. But you will get better, little by little, and you'll slowly get the hang of it... So if its something you have your heart set on, you'll get there.

[VolsBoy]

Thanks so much!

[abqryan]

My feeling on this is that it's perfectly fine, while learning, to use very similar aspects as someone else's design. Just like coach4fu pointed out such learning techniques are common in many different areas. I think obviously you run into problems when a person starts trying to basically copy someone else's work for any sort of commercial venture, there is no question that's wrong. But, I think as a starting and learning exercise pulling aspects from other's work and mimicking them is fine.

All of that being said, I do believe it's important to give the credit where it is due. I'm not saying it specifically happened in this case but I think in general if you are using a portion of someone else's work for education purposes you shouldn't be sneaky or claim it as your own. You'd want to add something that most any designer would be fine with someone including in their post. Something like this for example: "I got stuck with the mouth design and used this linked example of xxx's work as a template for this practice design."

The problem pops up when people get the feeling that their work is being stolen, which is a completely legitimate concern.

Either way, as a fellow newby I second the advice to keep working on it, perhaps we'll get as good as some of the other guys here eventually. And I'd also suggest even if you do straight up copy someone else's design in order to get technical drawing experience that's not a bad thing (though obviously there'd be no use in posting such work).

[tjkvb23]

Being someone who just started making logos myself, I think you're doing a great job VolsBoy.

More importantly-I'd be really hesitant to post anything I come up with on here in future. I understand where all the veterans of the forum are coming from but he showed you his process and he clearly didn't rip anyone off. Don't be so quick to judge. You guys all make great stuff and I understand nobody wants people taking their ideas but I'm sure it's really deterring to beginners when they see harsh reactions like the ones on this topic

If you can't take criticism and learn/grow from it, design ain't for you, amigo. Pure and simple.

In any situation aside from "for fun", you're going to get both positive and negative feedback -- both are very important. The issue I see with a lot of people just starting out is this: gloating over the positive feedback, and defending against the negative. I'd actually argue that the negative is more important to the final product, as a lot of passersby will nonchalantly say "looks great!" without giving it a second glance. You can't always necessarily learn from that, though you can from most negative or constructive feedback.

In this case, people telling him that his logo is too similar to something that was already existing is not judging. Though I may have come off that way in my initial post, I'd say it's fairly obvious that the defining characteristics of this mark are almost direct copies of Matt's logo.

There's a lot to be learned from what has been said in this thread -- whether you read it as an attack or as constructive feedback is up to you. I hope VolsBoy (and anyone else just starting out that stumbles upon this) takes this to heart and learns from it.

I didn't mean that I would be hesitant because I'm against criticism, I meant that I would be hesitant because I got the feeling that everyone jumped to the conclusion that he completely stole the idea from someone else. The first response gave me the feeling that, because he was just starting, it was assumed that he must have completely ripped off the idea. And then when he posted his process, it was still implied that he stole the idea.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that people want to protect their work and that nobody wants their ideas stolen. I really appreciate all the work that people with better skill than myself put on here. And I understand that nobody will get better without criticism but I think the mood went from constructive criticism to harsh criticism when everyone began implying the idea was stolen.

[St Louis Cardinals]

first of all, its not implying the idea was stolen, i think VolsBoy admitted that he had used certain characteristics of a different logo

second of all, allot of new people come on this board and just rip off logos and use them as their own

[NCCoachArete]

First off, I do think it was implied it was stolen. To your second point, yes, some do steal. Many on this site do not. Why assume someone does? I am a published author. People have stolen my work. I still don't assume most people (or many for that matter) steal on a similar public domain.

[NCCoachArete]

Furthermore, I think there is a difference between constructive criticism and accusing/assuming someone of stealing. Two different birds IMO.

Being someone who just started making logos myself, I think you're doing a great job VolsBoy.

More importantly-I'd be really hesitant to post anything I come up with on here in future. I understand where all the veterans of the forum are coming from but he showed you his process and he clearly didn't rip anyone off. Don't be so quick to judge. You guys all make great stuff and I understand nobody wants people taking their ideas but I'm sure it's really deterring to beginners when they see harsh reactions like the ones on this topic

If you can't take criticism and learn/grow from it, design ain't for you, amigo. Pure and simple.

In any situation aside from "for fun", you're going to get both positive and negative feedback -- both are very important. The issue I see with a lot of people just starting out is this: gloating over the positive feedback, and defending against the negative. I'd actually argue that the negative is more important to the final product, as a lot of passersby will nonchalantly say "looks great!" without giving it a second glance. You can't always necessarily learn from that, though you can from most negative or constructive feedback.

In this case, people telling him that his logo is too similar to something that was already existing is not judging. Though I may have come off that way in my initial post, I'd say it's fairly obvious that the defining characteristics of this mark are almost direct copies of Matt's logo.

There's a lot to be learned from what has been said in this thread -- whether you read it as an attack or as constructive feedback is up to you. I hope VolsBoy (and anyone else just starting out that stumbles upon this) takes this to heart and learns from it.

[VolsBoy]

This is definitely not the way I wanted this thread to go... I understand what I did, although I found it harmless what I did. I have seen other people's views.. I actually took it as advice and it helped me! Thanks everyone for the feedback!