Gothamite

The Dodgers were already bought by Magic Johnson and co. They were probably be staying put regardless, however there was some talk about not only moving the team, but disbanding it, because of the previous owner's legal issues that was holding up MLB.

No, there wasn't.

I was kidding about the Dodgers. That was the joke. I should have said the Yankees, who seem as likely to move as the Coyotes, since Bettman's willing to spend his owners' money indefinitely rather than admit a mistake.

Everybody who knows the size of Gary Bettman's ego.

At this point. I'd say the Dodgers are more likely to move than the Coyotes. So long as Glendale is willing to keep writing checks, he'll fight tooth and nail to keep them in town. He'll drag out any number of fictitious "owners" so long as the rubes eat it up.

And yet they've reportedly been in financial trouble, which doesn't speak well for the strength of the league.

The bigger issue is that while Birmingham and Montgomery, AL have the highest state/local sales tax combined, the Phoenix area (Maricopia County) has towns/cities with populations over 100K within the top ten. They know may not care for an additional .002 cents/dollar as they are top five in taxes right now. If you need gas in Glendle, then you will get gas. It is the impact on property taxes which will be more important for new home sales/re-sales.

For smaller purchases, you might be right. But what about the car dealer quoted in the article, who rightly fears that the extra $300+ dollars this will add to the price of a car will send his customers one Town over?

Tourists may not realize that sales taxes are higher in Glendale, but the locals sure will. I know plenty of people who will drive a couple extra miles for their regular errands, willing to hop a city line to regularly buy groceries, clothes or to fill up their tank.

Don't stop there - it was just getting good.

These expenses outweigh Glendale's Coyotes-related revenue by such a degree that Moody's has downgraded the city's bond rating twice in the last 18 months, citing the city's ongoing hockey payments. In part due to the Coyotes, the city's reserve fund has fallen to $11.7 million from $72.5 million six years ago. Facing a projected $35 million budget gap?in a city whose general revenue funds in the most recent fiscal year amounted to $142.6 million?Glendale is proposing to raise its property and sales tax rates, while slashing library hours and hiking fees for city services.

They're already on the verge of ruining themselves. Now Glendale wants to up their payments? Madness.

I have no problem with anyone giving their opinions or complaints about the financial and/or Glendale's handling of the situation. I do however have a problem with the constant jabs and sarcastic one liners that seem to make up every other post in this thread and the playoffs thread that are solely intended to rile up the very few (and outnumbered) Coyote fans on here.

Objection, Your Honor. Assuming facts not in evidence.

I don't think anyone has that intention. We don't dislike Coyote fans. At least I sure don't, and I've seen no indication that anyone else does. We tease them for their very low numbers, but we respect the existing fans while ridiculing the market as a whole (as should Coyote fans interested in placing blame where it belongs).

I am sick of Bettman, the Glendale City Council and anyone who is eager to support a demonstrably-unwanted team with demonstrably-illegal subsidies.

And let's not pretend that the effects of a very bad deal will be limited to Glendale taxpayers. The business of sports means that what one municipality gives to a team becomes precedent for the next market. In 1952 Milwaukee built a publicly-funded stadium to lure a relocating baseball franchise. It worked, and set a precedent that quickly became the standard for all cities that still exists today. So if Glendale is willing to funnel tens of millions of taxpayer funds to a failing team under the facade of wildly-inflated and unjustified "stadium operating fees", then the next city might be obliged to. We all have skin in this game.

I don't know if those are facts or not to be honest, I'd like to see a source. I'm fairly sure that the Coyotes made money in their first 5 years in the desert. They had Roenick and Tkachuk and Khabbibulin and a playoff team.

And yet, they managed to lose money.

The team has not once turned a profit. It has lost money every year, even the first 5.

An inconvenient fact, but still very much a fact.

And that's why so many of us have finally come to the conclusion that the market cannot be saved. Even with a good team, even with playoff hockey, the facts have shown that the market is just not sustainable.

Why would the NHL have a press conference announcing the intention to go through with an illegal deal?

Why not? They've done it before, trotting out the "new owner" after reaching a tentative deal, only to have the deal fall apart under its own illegal weight after the details were made public.

It's a transparent attempt to steer the conversation. The deal couldn't possibly be illegal - look, they finally have an owner!

Sounds like the problem the NFL is having, with terribly sloppy play becoming the norm, making the game less safe for the players.

So, the deal for Jamison would reportedly keep the Coyotes in Glendale for 21 years. $92 million for the first five, and then another $214 million over the next sixteen, for a total of $306 million in local government subsidies to a private business that has never turned a profit in its previous 16 years of existence.

A near-broke municipality is willing to guarantee nearly a third of a billion dollars to an agreement where any and all returns on its investment would be indirect. If this is anything but a sports team, this gets universally decried as the dumbest goddamn idea ever.

But hey, maybe this deal requires Jamison to make an effort to rename the team "Glendale Coyotes", so yay.

"Hello, Goldwater Institute?"

Is the antidote to that having a city subsidize a failing private business to the tune of tens of millions of taxpayer dollars every year? Really?

And you know me I am very critical of Gary Betman but the Coyotes run is well deserved and if it saves the franchise and gets fans in Arizona interested than so be it.

At what cost? The Coyotes have been good for the past three years, playing playoff hockey, and still they can't draw flies in the desert. They're still losing tens of millions of dollars a year, money that the city of Glendale has to funnel from legitimate city services like libraries to cover the team's losses.

Even under the rosiest scenarios now being floated, the city will have to pay $17,000,000 per year to subsidize a failing private industry. Tank, forgive me for introducing a personal comment, but I thought you were a conservative.

So even league employees from other teams are for some reason supporting this. I agree with most of what this guy usually writes and he's good on BlueJackets.com, but I had to say something. Am I wrong?

Well, there's your problem right there.

His responses sure read like a list of talking points. He says all the "right" things, but doesn't actually address the issues you raise. He's either not actually reading your tweets, or he's trying to force his ill-fitting script into the conversation.

you can't question the determination of this team.

Nobody has.

Quite the opposite; we've been saying for years that this team deserves to play in a market with at least a modicum of interest in the sport. Which, objectively, ain't Arizona.

And if the reports are true (and even if this "tentative deal" actually goes through where the others fell apart) under the terms of the lease he'll be free to move them.

Not sure if posted yet, but...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=395274

Yes, nine posts above yours.

A tentative deal? Haven't we been to this dance before?

ambulances. Drive your own damn self to the hospital!

Ambulances aren't funded by the government. Ambulance costs are included in medical bills.

Every municipal fire department has EMTs. Even Glendale, at least for now.

You got me.

I'm wondering if the NHL suing Moyes for the Coyotes' expenses since the league bought them means that the other owners have finally had enough of writing checks to the desert orphans. I always figured that would be the breaking point; eventually the owners of teams in successful markets would balk at giving one more cent to keep a failed team afloat.

If Bettman is trying to raise the cash, that could be why. Recoup those losses and maybe the owners will let him keep his pet project in Arizona a little while longer.

Arizona businessman Jerry Moyes is demanding that the NHL explain why it didn?t move the Coyotes to Winnipeg, Quebec City or Seattle instead of keeping the team in Phoenix and piling up losses.

It is an excellent question.

And if they're going after him, the situation must be even more dire than we thought. Owner revolt against Bettman?

Unless he's already convinced the Mad Russian to sink many more millions in a massive renovation.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2012/04/21/greg-jamison-says-hes-getting-closer.html?page=all

He said getting a final deal still could take one or two months. Jamison declined to go into too many details about his bid or where his money is coming from and how much more he needs.

"We?re not at 100 percent yet," said Jamison, referring to the financing intricacies.

Didn't these jokers get enough time yet? I guess not.

So he doesn't have the money yet, Glendale isn't willing to make the annual subsidy he's looking for, and they still have to deal with Goldwater's lawsuits.

Yep, I'd say he's still well below "100%".

Good point - games against Chicago and Detroit are reportedly very lucrative for the Coyotes, not so much Nashville.

Exactly. Why should the team take their own money and use it to cover the city's contribution?

Sort of defeats the purpose of fleecing the city for every penny the insecure politicians will give them...

I wonder if the Coyotes either win or go deep in the playoffs is the league will turn down a legit offer to keep them around another year.

I don't think they can afford to - the other owners are tired of subsidizing them, and Glendale can't even afford to pay this year's installment, much less another one.

Nah, the people of Arizona won't notice either way.