spartacat_12

14 hours ago, tohasbo said:

But in the end, a  Capitals re-branding will have to happen at some point.  Whether it be with Ovi chasing the record or not

Yeah, not a chance they do any sort of rebrand while Ovi is still playing.

You know it's bad when even the casual fans who react to every new jersey with the fire emoji are pissed.

ESPN has posted a follow up article with a bit more info.

Quote

That design process can be an intense and lengthy one, which is why the NHL will ask teams to put a hold on uniform overhauls for the time being. Jennings said that outside of anniversary jerseys that have to be produced in a timely manner, teams will likely hold off on any major redesigns until after Fanatics is "up and running" as the official uniform maker.

 

"You'll probably see minimal changes. We'll ask the teams for their cooperation in that," he said. "We want to make sure that we're delivering a high-quality product and not have any types of delays. Designing or redesigning a uniform is where a lot of times the biggest delays happen."

I guess this means a team like the Ducks are stuck in their current look for at least a few more years, unless they've already started the rebrand process in time for next season.

On 3/17/2023 at 10:16 AM, Indigo said:

The problem is that the number should have been retired for Allen before Giannis even got a chance to wear it. Now it's a catch-22:

If they do retire it, it 'looks" like the right thing to do, but the #34 streak will end* and Allen's time with the franchise will be more forgotten than it is now.

If they don't retire it, it "looks" as if the franchise is doing Giannis dirty.

 

*also, since everyone who wears #34 gets progressively better, the next guy in Milwaukee to wear it will likley become the unquestioned GOAT.

They could always retire 34 & hang banners for each notable guy who wore it. There are plenty of teams who have retired the same number multiple times.

8 hours ago, SailorOfSilence102 said:

Are the Vince ones really wrong ? They seem fairly popular, maybe not as much as the original stripes one, but definitely the 2nd most loved uniform in the teams history. Definitely agree with Bosh though, or Jose Calderón if you think he's more well remembered as a Heat player. 

Raptors are a tricky one. They might fall under the category of a team that doesn't have a right uniform. They've been a red & black team for longer than they've been a purple team, but the throwback stuff is still very popular. The championship season uniforms could be considered right, except that they lifted the trophy wearing a city edition alternate that became the basis of the current uniform.

I know most of the "Bettman is going to gift Bedard to the Coyotes" narrative is tongue-in-cheek, but it's pretty sad that there are people who actually believe it. If the league had the ability to rig the lottery, McDavid would be playing in Toronto & Matthews would already be in Arizona.

23 hours ago, IceCap said:

Again, you're advocating for the league to keep a team in Arizona, a market that has been nothing but red ink since 1996, while Quebec City just sits there. That's leaving money on the table man, and no amount of whatif's will change that.

I'm still of the belief that Arizona still hasn't had a proper shot. They started off playing in a basketball-specific arena that was in a decent location, but had an awful setup with poor sightlines & the jumbotron over the blue line. Then they completely shot themselves in the foot by moving west & committing to the city of Glendale. 

I am realistic about the situation, and am fully supportive of the Yotes finding a new home if they can't get this new arena approved. However, people seem to think the league/owners should just rip the team out of Maruelo's hands and move it unilaterally, which isn't how it works at all.

36 minutes ago, IceCap said:

And before someone gets uppity about me calling Canada the NHL's most valuable market...

The current NHL tv deal in Canada with Rogers is worth $5.232 billion.

The current NHL tv deal in the United States, a country that dwarfs Canada in terms of population and economic strength, is worth $1 billion.

Well the Rogers deal is in Canadian dollars, so it works out to roughly $3.822 billion USD, and it is spread over 12 years.

And the new US deal is actually ~$625 million per year from ESPN & TNT for 7 years, which $4.375 billion total. 

13 minutes ago, IceCap said:

You keep doing this, and I keep pointing out that Winnipeg's value as a market is reflected in the ThrasherJets' comparison against themselves. They've always been more valuable in Winnipeg then they were in Atlanta.

I've never disputed the fact that the franchise became more valuable when they moved to Winnipeg, but my point is that they are only marginally more valuable now, and unless they become the sport's next dynasty, they've pretty much hit their ceiling in Winnipeg. 

1 hour ago, IceCap said:

Neither are we obliged to pretend your rebellion against the common (and justified) narration in Canada is anything but contrarianism. 

And yet they're far and away more valuable then they ever were in Atlanta. What does that say, given Atlanta's economic and population advantages over Winnipeg?

I don't know if it's contrarianism if I'm parroting the same talking points that the league has brought up in regards to where they put franchises. I also haven't once said I support the league going back to Atlanta again, because I don't see it working on the third try. It seems like a rumour that is based mostly on the fact that TNT is a broadcast partner now.

At the end of the day, Canadian franchises (other than Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver) are high floor, low ceiling opportunities for the league, while the large southern markets are low floor, high ceiling situations. Atlanta was the 29th most valuable franchise in the league before they left, and are 27th now after a decade in Manitoba. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay was 28th in franchise value at that same time, got a new owner who invested in the team/market, and is now the 14th most valuable team in the league now.

16 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

That perception is the entire problem. The denial that hockey is a Canadian cultural institution, and that the NHL is morally obligated to preserve it as such, would at one point have been considered positions beyond the bounds of decency.  But here we are, and certainly not for the better.

The league is well aware of how important the sport is to Canada. People like to bash Bettman, but he fought to keep teams in Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa when there was a realistic possibility of all three following the path of the Nordiques & Jets 1.0. Having said that, the league isn't obligated to leave money on the table to nurture the inferiority complex a lot of Canadians. There are still hundreds of minor league/junior teams all across the country.

It's just odd because you don't see this narrative in other sports. American football plays a huge part in Southern culture, but you don't see people complaining about how Birmingham, Alabama deserves an NFL team more than London.

59 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Saskatoon came to mind becaue the St. Louis Blues at one time considered moving there.  And Atlantic Canada (I don't know which city, maybe Halifax?) was formerly being considered for a CFL team.

 

Still, even if you want to claim that the only viable unoccupied Canadian cities for an NHL team are Quebec City and Hamilton, then the league should deal with those cities before going to places where people call the sport "ice hockey".

 

For the NHL to have no teams in the two Canadian cities that you acknowledge as viable, even as it props up a floundering team in f-ing Arizona, is absolutely absurd. We all know that Phoenix and Atlanta and Houston are bigger cities than Quebec City and Hamilton.  But more important than the sizes of the television markets is the fundamental reality that hockey is culturally Canadian, and that therefore the interests of Canadian fans should take precedence.  The league's choice to abandon this principle is rightfully the cause of some degree of disgust.

The fact that Halifax can't even get their act together to bring in a CFL team (which only requires selling out 9 home games) should be a good indication that they're nowhere close to an NHL market.

At the end of the day the NHL is a for-profit pro hockey league, not some cultural institution that exists to preserve the history of the sport. Hamilton has made attempts at getting teams in the past, and it's usually the Leafs & Sabres who have issues with another team setting up shop right in between them. I'm sure Quebec City wouldn't lose money, but considering it's an even smaller market than Winnipeg, I can't imagine they'd have the corporate support to be a top 20 team in the league financially.

Association football is basically a religion in South America, but players can still make more money in MLS than they can in the top Brazilian or Argentinian leagues.

On 3/10/2023 at 10:52 PM, FiddySicks said:

Imagine leaving a market like the Bay Area to play third (probably soon to be fourth once the NBA expands) fiddle in a desert wasteland filled with transients and no water. Good :censored:in luck, you clowns. 

To be fair, the A's are already the fourth fiddle in the Bay Area. At least in Vegas they'd have a proper stadium.

And the rush of pro teams popping up in Nevada isn't exactly unprecedented. Los Angeles got the Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, and Kings in a span of less than 10 years.

3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

My bias is that Canada should have priority in the NHL.  So a team in Atlanta or anywhere else in the southern U.S. should not even be considered until there are teams in Quebec City, Hamilton, Atlantic Canada, Saskatoon, and any other viable Canadian locale that I am not thinking of right now.

Your argument lost all validity when you mentioned Saskatoon & Atlantic Canada. Quebec City & Hamilton (or somewhere else in Southern Ontario) are the only markets in Canada that could reasonably support a franchise. I understand the romantic desire to have more teams north of the border, but you have to be realistic when it comes to the economics. The league's return to Winnipeg has gone about as well as anyone could have hoped, and yet they're still ranked 27th in the league when it comes to franchise value.

Refreshing to see an athlete express some rational criticism about their team's uniform rather than just towing the company line. Still crazy that a team who calls themselves the "Reds" thought wearing charcoal at home & grey/white on the road was a good idea.

On 3/8/2023 at 1:32 PM, Sport said:

If these had actually made it onto the field I bet they would've lasted two seasons at most before dialing things down. 

 

It reminds me of mid-90's NBA design. 

 

 

The sleeve stripe turning into a cat  and spanning the neck hole is a weird idea made worse by being so clunkily executed. 

If it were symmetrical and they had the jaguar leaping from the collar to the sleeve on both sides it might have worked. Instead they decided to give the logo the Stretch Armstrong treatment.

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Interesting predicament here as it seems that the pride stuff has no constituency with ownership nor players. Change is not coming from the top down or the bottom up but from the middle out. Fans are used to picking one side or the other in league conflicts, but this represents a Third Way: the real heroes of the NHL are people with college degrees who work in marketing and HR, because unlike athletes, we can see ourselves in them.

There are plenty of players in the league who are more than happy to support the league's LGBTQ+ initiatives, so I wouldn't generalize them based on a few bad eggs. 

20 hours ago, CDCLT said:

The Hurricanes are an example of a team, in my opinion, that will never look good, and it starts top-down. The name "Hurricanes" doesn't lend itself to sports imagery nicely and was likely chosen so that the colors of red and black would match NC State and not for any particular reason related to Raleigh or the Carolinas. Their best jersey is obviously their first set but even then I don't really like the inclusion of silver and the italicized name and number font is hard to make work well. Since then, the team has continued to make changes for the sake of making changes, including the baffling red and white set from 2013 (that didn't match the road jersey). The 2017 home set was better but still an inferior version of the '90s set due to the sublimated warning flags (although I actually prefer the color balance here) and still kept the old road jerseys. The alternate uniform sucks, I don't even hate the logo, but the gray yoke and boring striping make this set a bad alternate (and a worse primary). The new road jersey has awful diagonal text instead of the primary crest and is again missing lots of black and still doesn't match the home uniform. This year when they dropped the old red set for the terrible black jerseys and then brought back better uniforms as their alternate just proves to me the team has no clue what to do with the brand. In fact, the only good design decision they've made since 2017 was trying red helmets with the white sweater.

 

I just don't think you're ever going to get a good brand out of the red/black Hurricanes. Even their best uniforms have problems and they're just another red and black NHL team. Maybe a quality brand could exist with the name "Carolina Hurricanes" but certainly not one with a red and black color scheme. They should've leaned more into the 90s and gone with a more out-there scheme, matching NC State be damned. Teal in particular I think would've been a great inclusion. Now, however, the team has spent 25 years as the Hurricanes and nothing about the brand is going to change. In my opinion, the best this team can hope for is a good set of uniforms and can never truly be great because of the decisions made when the franchise first moved.

I mean North Carolina gets hit with more hurricanes than almost any other state, so the name does fit the region. It isn't like Lethbridge of the WHL. 

The colours came from a combination of the hurricane warning flag, NC State, plus the fact that Peter Karmanos was a Detroit guy, which explains why they wore red pants & helmets rather than black. I think the inaugural uniforms actually did a pretty good job standing out from the other red/black teams by including silver & having the flag pattern along the hem.

15 hours ago, Dilbert said:

If the NHL wants to come back to Atlanta they will more than likely need to build a new arena.  State Farm Arena (former home of the Thrashers) was renovated and is now more basketball friendly. If its still possible for a sheet of ice it may end up like another Barclays Center situation. Gas South Arena, located in nearby Duluth, is home to the ECHL Atlanta Gladiators, however it only seats around 13,000

The rumour is that they'd be looking at playing somewhere in Alpharetta. I'm not exactly sure where the majority of Thrashers fans came from, but putting an expansion/relocated team in a suburban arena seems like a step back.  

Another team sabotaging the league's inclusion efforts. Disappointing, but not surprising when you know the owner's political stances.

I wish I could find a picture, but growing up the main football we played with was a Jacksonville Jaguars ball featuring their unused logo. It had alternating teal & gold panels with the leaping jaguar. It's probably still buried somewhere in my parents' garage.

4 hours ago, cajunaggie08 said:

Is an Astros jersey really Clemens's right uniform? Sure, he helped them get to a World Series, but when someone mentions his name I think of the Red Sox or Yankees before I think of Houston.

1 hour ago, TBGKon said:

Chris has shared the Team Canada uniforms.

 

 

Oof, that is not good. The only positive thing I can say about the jersey is that it's just red & white with no black, Unfortunately the lack of black in the jersey just makes the awful cap logo stand out even more.

1 hour ago, BuckDancer said:

And the Ducks themselves did their rebrand in 2006-07 right before Reebok took over.

Well Reebok was already producing the uniforms for the NHL in 2006, they just hadn't adopted the Edge template. I feel like the Sabres & Ducks had some inside info about what the new template was going to look like before they rebranded, since neither team had to make any drastic changes. Buffalo didn't even have to switch their collars, they just added the NHL shield.

On 2/28/2023 at 10:16 PM, the admiral said:

The Rangers invoked the NHL's "you have to do whatever it takes to help the Rangers" clause and got a team's Mount Rushmore player for a second-round pick. That's cool. 

I mean he had a full no-trade clause & made it pretty clear that the Rangers were the only team he'd be willing to waive it for, so Drury had the Hawks bent over a barrel. I suppose they could have kept him out of spite & lost him for nothing in the summer, but that just hurts everyone involved.

On 3/2/2023 at 3:01 PM, tp49 said:

You left out the biggest softball and most relevant guy to the thread...Auston Matthews who if I remember right is from Scottsdale.

I purposely left him out. He's become the poster boy for hockey players coming from non-traditional markets, so I mentioned some others to show that it isn't a one-off.

It will also be interesting to see how ASU's hockey program grows over the next 5-10 years. You would think they'd have the inside track when it comes to recruiting once they get a bit more established. Pretty easy to sell a kid on playing in Tempe compared to somewhere like Bemidji, MN.

On 3/3/2023 at 12:38 AM, VampyrRabbit said:

The arena is going to privately funded according to the Yotes top brass, but they are looking for city sales tax generated on the site to partly pay for the $200 million needed for site remediation, as well as a property tax abatement once construction is finished.

If I was a resident of Tempe, I would take everything the Coyotes say with a massive pinch of salt.

I mean if the city wants any sort of development on the site they're going to have to remediate it one way or another. But it sounds like the NIMBYs are fine with it just staying as a landfill.

2 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

Preds released their 25th anniversary logo;

Looks good, but I'm surprised they didn't go with the guitar pick shape for the shield. Also, they continue the tradition of incorporating the fangs into every anniversary ending in a 5.

10 hours ago, the admiral said:

Speaking of dear old Quebec, we know that their numbers have fallen as New South suburbia's have risen. Is this drop a good thing too? Why or why not? If the game needs help growing right now, as it once did in New South suburbia, should we make efforts to Grow The Game there? Why or why not? 

Why would you think I would consider that a good thing? I love how the sun belt hockey haters seem to think that you hate Canada/traditional markets if you support the Coyotes staying in AZ.

Unlike a lot of hockey fans, I don't root for the sport to fail.