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Posts posted by MJWalker45

  1. 2 minutes ago, LMU said:

    If Cleveland hadn't told Modell to sit in the corner while it appeased Jacobs and Gund with the Gateway project first we may be mocking the Baltimore Bombers redesign right now.

    Modell was losing money, and the Indians moving out didn't help. It also didn't help him that the Indians were so bad from the late 1970's until 1994, because attendance was bad and the stadium was falling apart even when Jim Brown was still playing. Then, when the city was ready to talk, he told them to wait and then jumped on the phone to Baltimore, who were already looking to pull teams in. Had Cleveland not gone, Houston may have been there instead. Had Modell threatened to move like the Indians had, he probably would have been part of Gateway.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=GaZMr_8pLgsC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=indians+threaten+to+leave+Cleveland&source=bl&ots=ZB0RmC4I2K&sig=ACfU3U3O8WrEA25cu-jDPXWrGhqsOhHfmQ&hl=en&ppis=_e&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjv44G4__nmAhXOMd8KHfX2ArIQ6AEwEnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=indians threaten to leave Cleveland&f=false


    He never really attempted to let the public know the shape his books were in. If he told the fans, "Gateway will kill off the Browns, but I'm willing to help the Indians out until a new stadium is built for both to share or separate stadiums for both teams if you vote no",he would be a saint now if they stayed and had a new stadium. The Bombers had a good logo set, but that uniform would probably look like the Buccaneers by now. 

  2. 1 minute ago, LMU said:

    And again, look at Los Angeles.  We lost two teams in one offseason and had to be yanked around for two decades with Seahawks/Colts/Vikings/Jaguars/Bills/49ers playing in Coliseum 2.0/Hollywood Park 1.0/Rose Bowl 2.0/Hacienda/El Toro/Farmers Field/Walnut/Dodger Stadium rumors before Kroenke was able to finally pull the trigger.


    Would Cleveland prefer the Chargers?  We can negotiate.

    A very valid point. i think that fans tend to view themselves as the actual owners and we know that it's not the case. Besides Kroenke/Davis and Spanos, the city of Los Angles also had to deal with the NFL, who were happy to deal without teams in LA until some of the owners realized the amount of money that holding a Super Bowl would make compared to Minneapolis. At times I wonder if the NFL really would look at moving a team like Green Bay if they thought they could triple the impact by placing them somewher else, like San Diego or another city that had better climate and more amenities attached to it. 

  3. 1 minute ago, LMU said:

    Seattle - 12 years (and counting)

    Houston - 6 years (3 years with no guarantee of a new team)

    Quebec - 25 years (and counting)

    Hartford - 23 years (and counting)

    Winnipeg - 15 years

    Yeah, I'd say that Cleveland got off pretty easy.



    5 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

    That's irrelevant. The team left, but the chips fell as they did to ensure the Browns fans made out as well as any fanbase could possibly make out when losing a team. It was an incredibly soft and pampered landing as far as relocation goes. 


    First off, look up. LMU sums it up nicely. The three years Cleveland went without the NFL (knowing full well it was coming back less than half a decade later) is nothing compared to the droughts other North American markets that lost their teams endured. 


    Secondly? There was no limbo. Limbo implies uncertainty. Cleveland knew, by the time the newly rechristened Baltimore Ravens played their first game, that the NFL would return and that the new team would have the original Browns' branding and record books. 

    That's not limbo. That's waiting patiently while the paperwork processes. 


    Yea, I get it Cleveland. Art Model was a bad man who did a bad, but geeze. You got a guarantee of a new team less than five years down the road. Relocations all suck at a base level, but Cleveland made out pretty damn well in comparison to similar situations.

    And I'm saying there were plenty of people that were not succored by the fact that a team was going to come back. Overall, Cleveland got off easier than those cities you cited, but it didn't mean there were not people that just didn't see this team as an aberration of their former team. Fan is still part of fanatic, and expecting everyone to act rationally regarding their favorite things, as it pertains to sports and the teams that play it, will never happen. 

  4. 7 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

    This is why I'm unsympathetic to Browns fans. 

    The fans of the Houston Oilers, Seattle Supersonics, Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets, and Hartford Whalers lost their teams with no guarantee they'd ever get a team back. 

    Brown fans not only got a guarantee of a new team, they got the rights to the records, logos, colours, and name. No city ever made out as good as Cleveland did after losing a team but Browns fans continue to talk about the original team's move like it was the greatest travesty in the history of sports. 

    I'd disagree, because had the owner kept his word to negotiate after the season, it was possible the team would have never left. Losing that team and being in limbo for 3 years, even knowing there's a team coming down the line, still didn't make going without a team for 3 years easier. 

  5. 8 minutes ago, selby56 said:

    The Browns are "tarnishing" the legacy of teams from 70 years ago, and the only people today that even care about those teams are...well...Browns fans. 


    This seems like a non-issue to me.

    They play bad football, they aren't beating up people on the weekends and selling crack out of the parking lot. Plenty of the top teams now were just as bad at some time in their past. 

  6. 1 hour ago, LMU said:

    Cleveland Browns fans could have just dealt with it like Houston Oilers fans managed to.

    But we didn't. We actually hoped for the league to tell Modell, he can't move the team but that wasn't going to happen. So we asked for our name and colors to stay. That was a half measure to us.

    1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

    Do what the Oilers, Ottawa CFL, Minnesota North Stars, and Baltimore Colts fans did, just deal with it. ow I see it. 

    We didn't want to just deal with it. If the league or new owner did a name the team competition it would've still been the Browns.

    26 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:


    This is how you'd like things to be, but the NFL specifically designated it otherwise. Obviously it's a philosophical disagreement (franchise v city/fan ownership), so we aren't gonna land on the same page.


    The Ravens aren't the Browns. The New Browns are also not really the old Browns, but they are the Cleveland Browns nonetheless.

    This. Do Cleveland Browns fans from 1964 still consider this the same team? Yes, they do. Do fans that came on board do the same? Yes. Do they all honestly know this is an expansion team and not the same team that Bernie Kosar played for? Yes, we all do. But those fans, myself included, will treat this team as the 1946 original, partially because the league does that too. 

    47 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

    Now, as an expansion team, the situation is different. Also, nice edit in the bolded. Those records still rightfully belong to the Ravens.

    Except the league decided that those records would belong to the team that would play in Cleveland, starting in 1999, rather than having them follow the team that left town. Had the Baltimore Browns played a single down in Baltimore, then the league most likely would have allowed them to keep those records instead of reverting them to the new team in Cleveland in 1999. By right as well as charter, it's the league who decides where records, colors, and emblems reside. Had Cleveland fans not been as loud about keeping those things, we would have been looking at possibly the Cleveland Rockers or some other out there name and some even crazier uniform designs. 


  7. 19 hours ago, simtek34 said:

    Damn it, Purple Pants. I'm still waiting for White on White. Can the Purple Pants just go away please?

    P/W/P looks better than P/W/W. I don't like monochrome purple though. 

  8. For the white pants, I think a white stripe in the middle of the pants stripe pattern would work better. For the brown pants I'd swap the orange and white stripes and have a brown stripe in the middle. I'd also go with brown numbers instead of orange for the white jersey. 

  9. On 1/3/2020 at 2:27 PM, Seadragon76 said:

    Napier would be a far better and (I stress this) *safer* choice here for the Bulldogs. The guy has has done pretty damn well at UL-Lafayette.


    Freeze, on the other hand, still has those demons from Ole Miss that ran him out of there and into the hands of Liberty, where his health was also an issue.

    ESPN analyst Dari Nowkah (spelling) suggested Baylor should grab him. That would be even dumber than hiring any coordinator that served under Art Briles. 


    Also, Brady Hoke's back at San Diego State:




  10. On 1/6/2020 at 9:29 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

    What's the general consensus on the Clowney play?  Locally, among writers / radio, I'm hearing it pretty much split.  Everyone agrees it should have been 15 yards (which wouldn't have really changed anything), but it's 50/50 as to whether it was dirty.  IMO, it looked like he turned his head specifically to spear Wentz.  Others see it that he turned his head to avoid him, and it really was incidental.


    I'm really hoping it's not considered dirty, and it's just my inner bias showing through, because I'd like to root for the Seahawks the rest of the way, but can't if that's how they won.


    Either way, Torrey Holt and Josina Anderson are jagoffs for criticizing Wentz for "it's always something with him..."  The guy got speared in the head, was the only 100% healthy guy all year, and wasn't even allowed to play, whether he wanted to or not.  Josina Anderson is a total clown and has done nothing but made baseless accusations and quoted 'sources' for stories that I'm convinced she makes up out of thin air.

    I'm not sure why she still has a job after all the crap with the Myles Garrett/Mason Rudolph fight. 

  11. 41 minutes ago, BlazerBlaze said:

    Not a big fan of the NYC/League-centric reveal of this year's jerseys. The local unveils here in Atlanta have always been fun and enjoyable to go to.  

    If it's mostly everyone wearing that horrible template I don't think it's something they need to show off. If the Retro MLS gear is actual retro stuff, that'll be awesome. Otherwise it'll be pretty annoying. Looking at what else that Mitchell and Ness have created for the league, I'm afraid it won't be copies of those original jerseys. 


    Pics of the new league ball


  12. They had royal blue and yellow to work with and didn't use either. Pretty sad looks. I also like the idea of using the NHL crest on the front instead of team logos. The jersey design is underwhelming too.  

  13. 19 hours ago, Whittier S said:

    The CAC logo has a strong Aztec vibe for me.


    19 hours ago, mcrosby said:

    There's been a fair amount of Art Deco in logo design lately, and why not? It's the Roaring '20s again. The Guardians of Traffic that sit guard the Hope Memorial Bridge have always been a favorite of mine, probably because they remind me of the Tolkien's Argonath. I decided on a weird mix of Cleveland sports colors, orangish instead of Browns orange, blue from the Cleveland baseball club, cream instead of athletic gold from the Cavs. This stoic Guardian can stand tall in goal for: 


    Cleveland Athletic Club (before you get all uppity about Euro style names just take solace in how quickly the team would be referred to as The Guardians)



    Image result for guardians cleveland

    I guess that makes sense. I like the muse that was chosen for the logo though. 

  14. 25 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

    I'd say we see pics later this week once media events start happening.  I would assume the teams arrive in New Orleans in the next day or so.

    Nike will have them in their pajama outfits for most of the media stuff, but I wouldn't expect any changes from years past for the jersey patches. 

  15. 22 minutes ago, VDizzle12 said:

    Hasn't it already been stated the that helmet is not changing and the logo will be the same moving forward? Meaning the facemask will still be brown?


    7 minutes ago, dmhtfld said:


    I'm pretty sure they said that last time as well and the facemask and logo changed. I wouldn't read too deep into that.

    Since that actual helmet is now banned, I hope they go with the brownie or the bulldog.

  16. 7 minutes ago, NicDB said:

    I've always felt like Tulane's colors only worked with green as the primary, white as the secondary, and blue as the tertiary.


    On 1/4/2020 at 12:59 PM, B-Rich said:

    So in between taking Christmas lights and decorations down, I took a look at the Armed Forced Bowl on ESPN. 


    The game features the Tulane GREEN Wave and the Southern Miss GOLDEN Eagles, but you wouldn't know it from the unis. Tulane is going all sky blue with white helmets, and Southern Miss is wearing black helmets, white jerseys (with black numbers/lettering) and black pants. 


    The only hint of the color in their team names is in striping, outlines and the Tulane helmet logo (USM went for an American flag schemed red white and blue eagle logo).


    It's a pet peeve of mine when teams with colors in their NICKNAMES don't feature that color prominently. Texas Tech Red Raiders are almost always guilty of this, featuring black and using RED as an afterthought.

    Tulane also chose to wear their "fauxback" which is why it had so little green. 

  17. 10 minutes ago, Volt said:

    The Rams were the Home team last year, so the AFC will be this year (unless I'm wrong).  I'd imagine the Chiefs would wear Red jerseys/White pants.  If for some reason they'd make it and chose or had to wear their White jerseys, I'd hope they'd wear their White pants, which is a better Away look for them, IMO.

    For some reason, the team that's been designated the home team over the last decade seems to have chosen to wear the away uniform with the exception of the Rams last year. Hopefully the AFC team would wear their home uniform because that's their best look, for all of them.