Updating my Logo

[Gazzzaf]

With the possibility of a server change I am looking to change the approach of the site. This also includes the logo (damn, couldn't help myself).

[gordie_delini]

I like this one gary - i'm not too crazy about the wordmark typeface, but the GD is nice

[Gazzzaf]

Haha, I just realised that that logo would work well with your forum name Brian.

I wanted to use a typeface that didn't stan out too much because I'll be using it on other sites as well. My plan is to set up a site that links to a few sites I'll be hosting under a new domain. The sites (including my own) will all be part of the Gazzzaf Design Network (GDN).

Here is a GDN logo (probably not final) and another version of my logo which I like a lot more.

[Davidson]

the gd looks strange to me when they are at different hights.

i think they should either be level or (as in one of your earlier pages) the straight line of the d and g should be parallel.

also GD and 'gazzzaf' align center over each other (as gazzzaf is wider than GD) and designs aligns right.

that looks a little awkward.

perhaps try a font that compliments the shapes of the GD logo for your strap line. itc din is similar.

this is a very quick mock up of teh sort of thing in mean in terms of ballance of elements:

[gordie_delini]

Fraser, Gary, I will caution you both now - DIN is a great typeface, but it has become like copperplate gothic and trajan - waaayyyy too overused. I'm guilty myself of using it in my freelance design stuff, but for my personal design, I use a typeface called Camingo TF. I like how Fraser used the different weights to emphasize 'Gazzzaf' over 'designs'. Try out a few typefaces you like, but please, not DIN.

[Gazzzaf]

I've had a look around for alternatives to DIN and I don't mind Vialog or Veto, particularly Veto because its a little heavier and that the G is more fitting. So probably Veto. I'm not sure if its overused or not (typefaces are not my strong point, clearly) so I'll wait on advice from you guys.

I had different weights in my last update although its hard to tell. GAZZZAF was Avenir Book and designs was Avenir Light.

After comparing Fraser's to mine, I do see that mine is very unbalanced, the D and wordmark alignment give the logo a bigger kid on a see-saw appearance. Just wondering but, would you adjust the width of the wordmark to the width of the logo?

[Davidson]

I've had a look around for alternatives to DIN and I don't mind Vialog or Veto, particularly Veto because its a little heavier and that the G is more fitting. So probably Veto. I'm not sure if its overused or not (typefaces are not my strong point, clearly) so I'll wait on advice from you guys.

I had different weights in my last update although its hard to tell. GAZZZAF was Avenir Book and designs was Avenir Light.

After comparing Fraser's to mine, I do see that mine is very unbalanced, the D and wordmark alignment give the logo a bigger kid on a see-saw appearance. Just wondering but, would you adjust the width of the wordmark to the width of the logo?

yeah, i did orginally have it like that, but it sort of felt that the logo and the text were competing a bit as they were similar in scale. i think its a nice looking logo, it doesnt need a huge explanation below it.

perhaps have "gazzaf designs" on one line underneath the logo.

with reference to din, its a standard font, like franklin gothic, avante guard or helvetica. i wrote a reply to geordis above message yesterday but got bumped off the server when i came to post it. the jist of it being that its pointless looking for a match to a font that does the job already. thats how abortions like impact and arial happen. there are plenty of fonts out there that look like din but if you use a different one, make sure its of good quality with regards to kerning and leading.

[gordie_delini]

Fraser's absolutely right about choosing another typeface - find something with good kearning and leading. If you're not sure what it means, I can show you some references. I feel (and there are several members on here who would agree with me) that typography is one of the most important elements of a good design. I highly suggest you don't find something that merely looks like DIN, but find a new typeface that you like altogether. I reccommend browsing around at http://www.myfonts.com - go to "find font" then "by category" then choose "legible". These I think would be the best choices to look through for your design. Hope that helps.

I'll say this again - DIN may be a standard, but like all the fonts you mentioned above, Fraser, it's been used too much. In some cases, it may be the appropriate choice for a typeface, but I think, especially for designers' logos, that it is far too common. I love DIN, it's a great typeface, but its overusage is starting to make me tired of seeing it. Anyway, that's all I have to say about that.

[andrewharrington]

Fraser's absolutely right about choosing another typeface - find something with good kearning and leading. If you're not sure what it means, I can show you some references. I feel (and there are several members on here who would agree with me) that typography is one of the most important elements of a good design. I highly suggest you don't find something that merely looks like DIN, but find a new typeface that you like altogether. I reccommend browsing around at http://www.myfonts.com - go to "find font" then "by category" then choose "legible". These I think would be the best choices to look through for your design. Hope that helps.

I'll say this again - DIN may be a standard, but like all the fonts you mentioned above, Fraser, it's been used too much. In some cases, it may be the appropriate choice for a typeface, but I think, especially for designers' logos, that it is far too common. I love DIN, it's a great typeface, but its overusage is starting to make me tired of seeing it. Anyway, that's all I have to say about that.

A lot of what people see and think is DIN is actually this Trade Gothic, which is used a LOT more than DIN, ad I've even seen versions of Trade Gothic witout the spur on the G, which is usually the dead giveaway, especially at small sizes. Of course you'll be able to tell the difference here, in direct comparison at large size, but you can see how people might mistake DIN Engschrift and Trade Gothic Bold Condensed No. 20 at great distance or small size.

While it does have its fair share of users, DIN is in no way as popular as you think it is. Certainly not as popular as Trade Gothic, at least not in the United States. Thing is, these typefaces (and standard typefaces in particular) are so good that I really don't mind seeing them all over the place. I would love a world full of Helvetica, Trade Gothic, Univers, DIN, and the like. They will NEVER be like Copperplate. Copperplate is just not as versatile as these faces we're discussing and it is simply not used correctly in roughly 90% of the examples we see. There are very few ways in which to use Copperplate and have it be clean, professional, and functional.

Standard typefaces are designed to be versatile, and that's why they are used so often. They lend themselves to so may applications and functions that it's difficult to make them look bad if you have base knowledge of what you're doing. True, many people don't, and there are bad examples of Helvetica and everything else, but it's evident that you're well-versed enough to know what you're doing, Gazzaf, and in that case, you really can't go wrong with a nice legible sans serif font. Here are my top picks:

TRADE GOTHIC

Great face for text AND display. Good range of weights and widths. Used a TON in the United States. In fact, it's in my signature right now. I use it as a display and subhead text on all my correspondence, and have used it on portfolios and official letters relating to school as a text face.

DIN

Similar to Trade Gothic, but slightly more geometrically constructed. The standard face for signage in Germany. Used a lot in the United States. Limited weights and widths. I don't like it a lot for text, more for display. In fact, I didn't even buy the thin weights, just the thicker display weights.

HELVETICA

The classic. Huge range of weight and width. Great for a light, modern look. Good for text or display in some cases. Used so much that i hardly notice it anymore. Beautful when set nicely.

AKZIDENZ GROTESK

Definitely one of my favorites. This is the face you use if you want the Swiss look. Good range of weights. Great for text AND display. So clean. So versatile. I'm slowly making this the official face of correspondence at the museum where I work. Used more internationally, so it still looks fresh when you use it here. It really looks distinctively European.

ENGRAVERS' GOTHIC

Nice display type. Wide like Trade Gothic Extended, another nice display.

UNIVERS

The greatest work of art in modern typography. The epitome of legibility, cleanliness, professionalism and versatility. Endless weights and widths organized into a flawless system. Used all over the place. Flawless design. I could go on.

Thats probably my hotbed of type as far as standard faces. There are others I use often, but I think those are my favorites for a nice logo like you've got here. Check out www.linotype.com and look around their type finder pages to get some suggestiond for typefaces in the sans serif category. As for the logo, it's got potential. I don't think I like what Davidson did; it makes the logo too contained and predictable. Centered. Symmetrical. Boring. I don't know. I like the offset better, but I don't think it works when placed above the text. I think you would have to use it only as a stand alone mark or as a horizontal signature. I really like the GDN logo. That accentuates the offset placement of the GD. One idea of Davidson's that I do like is placing GAZZZAF DESIGNS on one line, and testing it out in both one and two weights and in a bunch of typefaces. Theres something nice about the light and airy look of Avenir (also a good choice) contrasting with the bold GD that you don't get from the DIN.

[Gazzzaf]

This was done at about 3 am last night just before Fraser's last comment. I wont get any more done today cause I have cricket but I hope that this is an improvement in terms of typeface. I went with Veto for the time being.

[gordie_delini]

This is a nice update, Gary - well done.