McGwire comes clean

[BBTV]

http://www.stltoday....3B?OpenDocument

A lot of them should be banned from baseball, including Mark McGwire," Clark said. "All those guys are cheaters —A-Rod (Alex Rodriguez). Fake, phony. Rafael Palmeiro. Fake, a phony. (Roger) Clemens, (Barry) Bonds. (Sammy) Sosa. Fakes. Phonies. They don't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. They should all be in the Hall of Shame. They can afford to build it. They've all got so much money. And they could all go there and talk about the next way to rub something on your skin. The whole thing is creepy. They're all creeps. All these guys have been liars," Clark said.

Clark criticized McGwire's initial statements that McGwire's swing and mechanics were good enough that they would have allowed him to hit the record-setting 70-homer total he achieved in 1998 without the aid of steroids.

As if he were speaking to McGwire, Clark said, "No, because your hand-eye coordination was not good enough. You're kind of a big goof. You had one thing. If you uppercut a ball, you might hit it.

Clark said the steroids abusers and suspected users "are all lucky they didn't end up in jail. It's all comical to a certain point. It's a three-ring circus. It really is.

"From (commissioner) Bud Selig to Tony (La Russa) to A-Rod to Manny Ramirez to Palmeiro ... what a joke."

Clark insists that Selig and La Russa, among others, knew more about the use of steroids 10 to 20 years ago than they were letting on.

"(McGwire's) own manager never knew that (Jose) Canseco and McGwire and anybody else ever had taken steroids?" Clark said.

Now THAT is a Cardinal.

Anyone catch this line: "This thing stretches a long way back and it's really ugly and just really shocking. ..."

Jack Clark played from 79 to 92, pre "steroids era" (but right in the coke era!)

He's saying it stretches a long way back, the way he talks, I think he saw it himself.

I bet there's a hall of famer that used steroids at some point...

I'm not sure why that would be a surprise to anyone. Sometimes people forget that in addition to bulking up, people use steroids for recovery purposes (and yes, I do think that a lot of players did use them to get back on to the field and not to get huge... not that it's any better or worse though), so there's probably a guy or two who wouldn't be obvious users that are in the HOF. In a sick sort of way, I'd love for Ripken to have been on the juice, because that would really turn the game upside down.

[infrared41]

In a sick sort of way, I'd love for Ripken to have been on the juice, because that would really turn the game upside down.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. The guy played in 2000+ straight games. He'd be the perfect example of a player who possibly (gotta keep the angry mob away from my door) used steroids exactly as you described; to stay healthy etc.

[BBTV]

In a sick sort of way, I'd love for Ripken to have been on the juice, because that would really turn the game upside down.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. The guy played in 2000+ straight games. He'd be the perfect example of a player who possibly (gotta keep the angry mob away from my door) used steroids exactly as you described; to stay healthy etc.

Yeah, italics are key. For the sake of the angry mob, I'm not saying that I think he did it... I'm just saying that I hope he did it (and gets caught.)

I guess boldface is key too.

Mob, please get the F off my lawn. Thanks.

[The_Admiral]

Steroids cause roid rage. If Ripken had been on the juice, he wouldn't have had the personality of a damp potato. j/k!

What's insulting about the McGwire admission for me is that he said he only did steroids to recover from injuries, but every athlete is prescribed corticosteroids to recover from injuries. That's standard. But he took anabolic steroids, and that's not what anabolic steroids are for.

[infrared41]

In a sick sort of way, I'd love for Ripken to have been on the juice, because that would really turn the game upside down.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit. The guy played in 2000+ straight games. He'd be the perfect example of a player who possibly (gotta keep the angry mob away from my door) used steroids exactly as you described; to stay healthy etc.

Yeah, italics are key. For the sake of the angry mob, I'm not saying that I think he did it... I'm just saying that I hope he did it (and gets caught.)

I guess boldface is key too.

Mob, please get the F off my lawn. Thanks.

And while they're at it, they can get the off my lawn too. Thanks again.

[STL FANATIC]

Here's a really interesting site. This guys done boatloads of research. I haven't even gotten past a few paragraphs on the "summary" page. I hope to find time to read everything, though. But it looks like if you can find the time to do it, it's probably well worth the read.

I haven't gotten to his conclusions yet. By his tone it seems like he believes the steroid controversy is being overblown, but like I said, I'm not sure. It sounds as though whatever his conclusions are, he's done lots of research to back them up, or so it sounds.

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

[NJTank]

Prediction McGwire will not last the full season with the Cardinals.

[The_Admiral]

I'll take the other side and predict that Fox Sports Midwest fires Jack Clark because of the increasing toxicity of this situation, with or without "input" from the Cardinals. The Cardinals are Tony La Russa's team. He calls the shots, and if he wants to use the 2010 season to vindicate Mark McGwire by any means necessary, that's exactly what they're going to do, and I hope he does. I want mountains of McGwire. Bring it all on, let the whole "see I told you he knows hitting" sideshow run and fail, and maybe more people will start to ask if maybe the Cardinals aren't the gosh-durned classiest organization in Gawd's whole wide world. "Don't ask questions about why a player crashed his car and died after he was at a bar or I'll hit you with my fungo bat" was where I got off that particular bus, for the record.

[STL FANATIC]

I'd be surprised if Jack Clark gets let go unless it's something he continues to push. I don't see him "working this out" in the same way Tony La Russa and game broadcast analyst Al Hrabosky did after they exchanged some shots at each other over whether Yadier Molina hustles enough/all the time, but I think if he let's it go (as in doesn't bring it up when it's not the subject and doesn't completely spout off when it is), then he'll retain his job.

That's just a guess though. I don't know who's call it would be to fire him. I know across town, Fox Sports hires the Blues broadcastors with in put from the Blues. I have no idea how that works for the Cardinals. Wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals had more of a say--wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.

[The_Admiral]

"Okay, Albert, here's how you hit a baseball. Or at least how I hit a baseball. You swing at the ball really hard."

"Erm, yeah, way ahead of you there, Mark."

"Okay. Well after you get that down, what you do is jam this here needle in your ass."

"..."

"Well frankly I don't know what else I can teach."

[infrared41]

Prediction McGwire will not last the full season with the Cardinals.

What's with you suddenly becoming CCSLC's resident Nostradamus? I think someone's been listening to a little too much Coast to Coast and late night AM radio.

[Lee.]

Prediction McGwire will not last the full season with the Cardinals.

What's with you suddenly becoming CCSLC's resident Nostradamus? I think someone's been listening to a little too much Coast to Coast and late night AM radio.

CRISWELL PREDICTS!

[The_Admiral]

Word out of the Cardinals' fan convention is that Mark McGwire got a standing ovation, while Jack Clark was heavily booed. If true, this does not augur well for Jack Clark's continued employment, nor does this reflect well on the Best Fans In Baseball, that they'd turn on someone who spoke the truth while embracing a lying cheat. Willing to give Cardinals fans at large a bit of a pass, though, because everyone knows that the people at fan conventions tend toward the odd.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm not big on the boo's, but in fairness, they didn't boo someone who "told the truth" they booed someone who passed awfully harsh judgement on "one of our own" (rip me for that if you want, I think I should be able to get away with saying that in quotes without being dillusional, though). Now too me the booing is kind of doing the same thing back to him, but 2 wrongs don't make a right and all of that.

Still, the Cardinals asked him not to talk about McGwire in his speaking appearances, and he didn't. I'd think that's what they'll ask him to do with FSN (or at least to avoid going deep into the controversy about McGwire), but I could be wrong. They could let him go.

In any case, Clark wasn't a saint. He blew his money, filed for bankruptcy, accused the owners of collusion when he didn't get huge bucks. More than being upset that some guys used steroids, he's bitter that he didn't get their payday. He's also better that he didn't get the call for the hitting coach job that McGwire now holds. It's a job Clark has openly campaigned for on more than one occasion.

I still like the guy, but like I said, his motives for his views on Mac and steroids aren't exactly pure. I don't like booing, but I don't mind him getting some ribbing for his overly judgemental views.

It shouldn't surprise anybody that McGwire got a standing O, either. Most Cardinals will. All the stars/former stars will. And when there's a chance to show extra support and forgiveness, it'll get taken even a step further.

If you're negative, you'll view that as embracing cheating. You can look at past events and also view it as embracing Drunk Driving. You can look at Matt Holliday and view it as embracing crummy anti-clutch defense.

But the real intent is that it's embracing forgiveness, whether it's fully deserved or not. (And would that forgiveness be shown to someone not wearing Cardinal red? It'd be a mixed bag as far as personal opinions, but they certainly wouldn't get a standing O and they might get booed. But that's sports.)

[dfwabel]

Earlier this week Carlton Fisk chimed in, not Fergie Jenkins shared his hot sports opinion with the AP.

Jenkins' Opinion on McGwire

"You have not even begun to apologize to those you have harmed. How many pitchers do you think he ended their careers by hitting numbers of home runs off them?" Jenkins said during a telephone interview Wednesday.

[The_Admiral]

Jenkins probably isn't the best guy to step forward on this, as his own problems with nose candy provide sufficient ammunition for Team McGwire to fire back. Nonetheless, his point stands about McGwire's apology being a vague dissembling mess that accomplished nothing.

Question for Giants fans: do you still embrace Barry Bonds the way Cardinals fans embrace McGwire? Have you yet begun to waver in your defense of him? If you haven't, what more will it take? Say what you will about Cubs fans, but I think the majority have realized that Sosa was a fraud who clowned us.

[dfwabel]

Jenkins probably isn't the best guy to step forward on this, as his own problems with nose candy provide sufficient ammunition for Team McGwire to fire back. Nonetheless, his point stands about McGwire's apology being a vague dissembling mess that accomplished nothing.

Question for Giants fans: do you still embrace Barry Bonds the way Cardinals fans embrace McGwire? Have you yet begun to waver in your defense of him? If you haven't, what more will it take? Say what you will about Cubs fans, but I think the majority have realized that Sosa was a fraud who clowned us.

Bonds will (alledgedly) still face a federal trial, so it's outcome may still have more impact on Giants fans thoughts. That or the, "Barry only did it because Sammy and McGwire were doing it and getting high praise for their performance" card will be played a lot.

[pcgd]

Big Difference with Bonds and Sosa vs. McGwire, they wore out their welcomes while still on the team. McGwire left rather quickly and still was in good standing with the team and its fanbase. (looking back of course this was from breaking down because of steroids and I think, he felt ashamed and didn't want to be found out)

Sosa had grown apart from the Cubs faithful over a couple seasons, Bonds' act seemed to get old everywhere but San Fran and there was always the steroids talk with him right out in the open. It seems to me that not very many people liked Bonds for the last 5 or so seasons. Even in San Francisco you could feel the tide shifting it seemed...For McGwire, the roids talk wasn't as out there as it was with Bonds (during his playing years).

The big thing is, Cardinals fans still largely remember McGwire hitting home runs without the taint of steroids. He's on the team now as a hitting coach, he was the most popular player for 2 or 3 seasons. He's "Big Mac". Jack Clark wasn't all that well liked during his playing career, he was most likely the 4th or 5th most popular player while he was on the team (Maybe even lower, I'd bet Whitey was more popular than Clark at the time) so he's not as beloved by Cardinal fans.

Saying that, I think booing Jack Clark was stupid. I can't defend the actions of cardinal fans and honestly, I don't care. I'm a cardinals fan, not a cardinals fanbase fan. Sure they are knowledgeable and cheer great plays by the other team, but they are hokey (every home run does not need to be a curtain call) and way too loyal to certain players but not others. Everyone forgets that Jack Clark won the pennant for the cardinals in 1985 with a home run in game six.

Fergie Jenkins, I can respect what he's done on the field. But to say McGwire owes every pitcher an apology is kinda ignoring the fact that most likely just as many pitchers were on the juice as hitters. Should he apologize to Clemens? He's not wrong necessarily but like a previous poster mentioned, he's had drug problems before and I think he's ignroing that so many players were doing it (not excusing McGwire) including the pitchers.