Gerhart to leave for draft.

[Saintsfan]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

I have no real clue. If you think that whites are not as fast as blacks, then watch the olympic track and field events with running and jumping and that might answer your question. I see some white athletes do well, but not a lot of them. Why is that? I can't exactly tell you except they are built different than most whites are, it's just the way God made them. I think whites can play running back as I think whites can play DB and yet you see very and I mean very few whites playing DB especially at corner. If you see a white player in the NFL as a DB, it's usually at safety. I don't think coaches stereotype players based on skin, it's what player at what position can win you the game.

I did chuckle at the comment you made about all basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally by anyone. Until recently when the NBA really started drafting players out of Europe, it was rare to see more than 2 white guys on a team and usually those white guys were the backup forwards and centers who got maybe 2 minutes a game if they were lucky. Even now most NBA teams active players will be something like 8 blacks to 4 whites. I think each sport has it's own nuances that allow certain players to excel better than others.

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

[BBTV]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

I have no real clue. If you think that whites are not as fast as blacks, then watch the olympic track and field events with running and jumping and that might answer your question. I see some white athletes do well, but not a lot of them. Why is that? I can't exactly tell you except they are built different than most whites are, it's just the way God made them. I think whites can play running back as I think whites can play DB and yet you see very and I mean very few whites playing DB especially at corner. If you see a white player in the NFL as a DB, it's usually at safety. I don't think coaches stereotype players based on skin, it's what player at what position can win you the game.

I did chuckle at the comment you made about all basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally by anyone. Until recently when the NBA really started drafting players out of Europe, it was rare to see more than 2 white guys on a team and usually those white guys were the backup forwards and centers who got maybe 2 minutes a game if they were lucky. Even now most NBA teams active players will be something like 8 blacks to 4 whites. I think each sport has it's own nuances that allow certain players to excel better than others.

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

"fast twitch" fibers? WTF? Where did you read this - I would be interested in reading about this from a credible source.

As for the "White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball" line, I can only tell you that you are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .

wrong .

[The_Admiral]

White guys from outside of America, until quite recently, weren't good enough to crack the NBA with any degree of regularity. There's that, I guess.

[infrared41]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

Sports Illustrated actually addressed the white RB thing a while back. It's not anything other than perception. Coaches at the upper college and pro levels seem to have it in their heads that white guys can't be RBs. I suppose it's kinda like back when they also thought black guys couldn't play QB. It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now.

[infrared41]

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

This guy is -ing priceless.

[Saintsfan]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

I have no real clue. If you think that whites are not as fast as blacks, then watch the olympic track and field events with running and jumping and that might answer your question. I see some white athletes do well, but not a lot of them. Why is that? I can't exactly tell you except they are built different than most whites are, it's just the way God made them. I think whites can play running back as I think whites can play DB and yet you see very and I mean very few whites playing DB especially at corner. If you see a white player in the NFL as a DB, it's usually at safety. I don't think coaches stereotype players based on skin, it's what player at what position can win you the game.

I did chuckle at the comment you made about all basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally by anyone. Until recently when the NBA really started drafting players out of Europe, it was rare to see more than 2 white guys on a team and usually those white guys were the backup forwards and centers who got maybe 2 minutes a game if they were lucky. Even now most NBA teams active players will be something like 8 blacks to 4 whites. I think each sport has it's own nuances that allow certain players to excel better than others.

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

"fast twitch" fibers? WTF? Where did you read this - I would be interested in reading about this from a credible source.

As for the "White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball" line, I can only tell you that you are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .

wrong .

First off on fast and slow twitch fibers this is a good summation

And I did use a bit of a sweeping statement there. I didn't mean no white player wanted to play basketball, but generally there was a time when very very few white players came through the US system at all. I think oddball is low balling the situation with white guys in the NBA through the 80s and 90s. Few teams would have had more than 1 or 2 players in the 90s, who were white. It seems to me that a few more white guys are coming through the college system now, as well as the foreign imports. My point was that the NBA especially, and basketball more generally was culturally not a place that all that many white guys aspired to through the 80s and 90s and that through role models, guys like Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash, there has been something of a resurgence in white basketball in the States, it seems to me.

[The_Admiral]

Neither of those guys are from the United States. Michael Jordan inspired a lot of white kids to play basketball, though.

[BBTV]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

I have no real clue. If you think that whites are not as fast as blacks, then watch the olympic track and field events with running and jumping and that might answer your question. I see some white athletes do well, but not a lot of them. Why is that? I can't exactly tell you except they are built different than most whites are, it's just the way God made them. I think whites can play running back as I think whites can play DB and yet you see very and I mean very few whites playing DB especially at corner. If you see a white player in the NFL as a DB, it's usually at safety. I don't think coaches stereotype players based on skin, it's what player at what position can win you the game.

I did chuckle at the comment you made about all basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally by anyone. Until recently when the NBA really started drafting players out of Europe, it was rare to see more than 2 white guys on a team and usually those white guys were the backup forwards and centers who got maybe 2 minutes a game if they were lucky. Even now most NBA teams active players will be something like 8 blacks to 4 whites. I think each sport has it's own nuances that allow certain players to excel better than others.

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

"fast twitch" fibers? WTF? Where did you read this - I would be interested in reading about this from a credible source.

As for the "White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball" line, I can only tell you that you are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .

wrong .

First off on fast and slow twitch fibers this is a good summation

And I did use a bit of a sweeping statement there. I didn't mean no white player wanted to play basketball, but generally there was a time when very very few white players came through the US system at all. I think oddball is low balling the situation with white guys in the NBA through the 80s and 90s. Few teams would have had more than 1 or 2 players in the 90s, who were white. It seems to me that a few more white guys are coming through the college system now, as well as the foreign imports. My point was that the NBA especially, and basketball more generally was culturally not a place that all that many white guys aspired to through the 80s and 90s and that through role models, guys like Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash, there has been something of a resurgence in white basketball in the States, it seems to me.

1. Where does it say that blacks have more "fast twitch" fibers than whites? What about Asians? They're awesome at ping pong, do they have super fast twitch arms and wrists?

2. Plenty of white players have always played basketball in America. I believe that when many of them get to the point where they need to focus on a single sport, many of them chose to pursue sports other than basketball, possibly due to the belief that white players wouldn't get looked at as seriously by schools and (especially) the NBA as black players.

As far as I can tell, at the pre-college level (and probably even the college level), there was never a decline in "white basketball" (I feel stupid even typing that out) to warrant a resurgence. Also, I'm not sure how you could possibly assess the white basketball situation in the US, when you are in Europe. Do you have scouts in high schools reporting back to you?

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

White guys have names like Lenny, while black guys have names like Karl.

[Saintsfan]

Why can't white guys play running back? For that matter, why is football the most positionally segregated sport? All basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally well by anyone. Is it the work of coaches at lower levels who groom players for positions, or is it just that black people are faster than white people?

I have no real clue. If you think that whites are not as fast as blacks, then watch the olympic track and field events with running and jumping and that might answer your question. I see some white athletes do well, but not a lot of them. Why is that? I can't exactly tell you except they are built different than most whites are, it's just the way God made them. I think whites can play running back as I think whites can play DB and yet you see very and I mean very few whites playing DB especially at corner. If you see a white player in the NFL as a DB, it's usually at safety. I don't think coaches stereotype players based on skin, it's what player at what position can win you the game.

I did chuckle at the comment you made about all basketball and baseball positions can be fielded equally by anyone. Until recently when the NBA really started drafting players out of Europe, it was rare to see more than 2 white guys on a team and usually those white guys were the backup forwards and centers who got maybe 2 minutes a game if they were lucky. Even now most NBA teams active players will be something like 8 blacks to 4 whites. I think each sport has it's own nuances that allow certain players to excel better than others.

I think admirals point about the NBA is that you see white guys playing all positions, not maybe loads of white players, but noone says 'White guys can't play at small forward' or anything like that.

On the first point, I think I am right in saying that black people have more 'fast twitch' fibres in there muscles, which are better for sprinting. (Assumning that genetic science hasn't been superseded!) But personally I think a lot of the difference is cultural. Part of the reason that the NBA is so dominated by black players, and the NHL is dominated by white players is cultural. White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball, but even the college game has seen an increase in good white players.

I think it probably is cultural as well, that in football, white guys are more expected to play in certain positions, whilst black guys are expected to play in other positions. But there have been plenty of good white, mobile quarter backs who could have made decent running backs. Guys like Brett Favre (dare I say) in another life might have made a serviceable RB, especially early in their career. But they have been pushed, not just by coaches, but by role models, there own expectations, perhaps by peers, in another direction.

"fast twitch" fibers? WTF? Where did you read this - I would be interested in reading about this from a credible source.

As for the "White guys, until quite recently, didn't want to play basketball" line, I can only tell you that you are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .

wrong .

First off on fast and slow twitch fibers this is a good summation

And I did use a bit of a sweeping statement there. I didn't mean no white player wanted to play basketball, but generally there was a time when very very few white players came through the US system at all. I think oddball is low balling the situation with white guys in the NBA through the 80s and 90s. Few teams would have had more than 1 or 2 players in the 90s, who were white. It seems to me that a few more white guys are coming through the college system now, as well as the foreign imports. My point was that the NBA especially, and basketball more generally was culturally not a place that all that many white guys aspired to through the 80s and 90s and that through role models, guys like Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash, there has been something of a resurgence in white basketball in the States, it seems to me.

1. Where does it say that blacks have more "fast twitch" fibers than whites? What about Asians? They're awesome at ping pong, do they have super fast twitch arms and wrists?

2. Plenty of white players have always played basketball in America. I believe that when many of them get to the point where they need to focus on a single sport, many of them chose to pursue sports other than basketball, possibly due to the belief that white players wouldn't get looked at as seriously by schools and (especially) the NBA as black players.

As far as I can tell, at the pre-college level (and probably even the college level), there was never a decline in "white basketball" (I feel stupid even typing that out) to warrant a resurgence. Also, I'm not sure how you could possibly assess the white basketball situation in the US, when you are in Europe. Do you have scouts in high schools reporting back to you?

For years it was axiomatic that muscles have two types of fibers - white, or fast-twitch, which were thought to be adapted for power movements, such as leaping or sprinting; and red, or slow-twitch, which were adapted for endurance. Now we know the model is more complicated. There are in fact two different types of fast-twitch fibers, one more metabolically efficient. Whites on average have a higher percentage of slow-twitch fibers than West African blacks who generally have more of both types of fast-twitch fibers.

Geneticist and exercise physiologist Claude Bouchard at Laval University in Quebec City, has run numerous experiments comparing two populations, French-Canadian and West African students. Using long needles inserted into the thighs of test subjects, Bouchard's team extracted tiny sections of fibers, which look to the naked eye like pieces of raw meat. They were chemically treated to reveal metabolic differences, put on a glass slide, and slipped under a high-power microscope, where they appeared as a collage of tiny red and white crocodile scales. The West Africans, by a ratio of approximately two to one, had more of the larger fast-twitch fibers. The researchers concluded that the force generating capacity of type-II muscle fibers at high velocity, the speed and tempo of movements, and the capacity of an individual to adapt to exercise training are all genetically influenced.

Although physical activity can improve fitness, it generally cannot alter a person's biological endowment by converting fast-twitch fibers to slow-twitch ones, or vice versa (although people do gradually and permanently lose fast-twitch muscles as a result of aging). It's estimated that 40 percent is due to environmental influences such as exercise, whereas 45 percent is associated with genetic factors (the remaining 15 percent is due to sampling error). At the far end of the performance bell curve in sprinting, where small differences can be crucial, genetics clearly circumscribes possibility.

link

I don't know exactly how accepted that science is now, it may be somewhat out of date, but the point is that it is a mix of genetic, physical advantages and cultural aspriational, encouraged, targets that lead to the success of one race in a particular area, ahead of another.

From the conclusion of the above quoted piece

Arthur Ashe, Jr., the first black man to win the US Open, Australian Open, and Wimbledon singles tennis titles, wrestled with this controversy while writing his groundbreaking A Hard Road to Glory, which catalogues the history of black accomplishment in sports. He accumulated thousands of anecdotes of how cultural and environmental forces had shaped black success in sports. Still, Ashe could not put the genetic issue to rest. When asked about what he had come to believe after years of research, whether blacks had a physical advantage, Ashe responded deliberately: "The results are outstanding, nothing short of stellar.

"Damn it," he sighed, frustrated at the political incorrectness of his own beliefs. "My heart says 'no,' but my head says 'yes.' Sociology can't explain it. I want to hear from the scientists. Until I see some numbers [to the contrary], I have to believe that we blacks have something that gives us an edge."

Ashe of course is only recognizing what we all intuitively know unequivocally: Population genetics and ancestry matter, a lot. Yet it should never be forgotten that genes are not the ultimate factors in elite performance. While genetics will determine if you have a chance to be an elite athlete, intelligence, dedication, and serendipity are the final arbiters of who wins and loses.

"It's the brain, not the heart or lungs, that is the critical organ," Roger Bannister told me. "But one would have to be blind not so see a pattern here. I hope we are not at a time and place where we are afraid to talk about remarkable events. I hope not

[The_Admiral]

double post!

[The_Admiral]

lol happy martin luther king day everyone

[BBTV]

I'm sure there's a joke (or at least a witty comment) to be made about MLK's fast-twitch fibers, but I'm not going to be the one to make it.

[Harmening]

What would Jimmy the Greek say?

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

wasn't this discussed in chapter 9 in the book, "A million little fibers"? granted Towlie was high when he wrote it.