Newly Built Stadium, that Sucks

[DaytonBlue]

someone earlier said that sbc parks seats are bad. ive been there, and seat space and comfort is fine, and who can beat that view?

[FiddySicks]

someone earlier said that sbc parks seats are bad.  ive been there, and seat space and comfort is fine, and who can beat that view?

Oh dont get me wrong, the park itself has one of the most comfortable feels of any park around, and its absolutely beautiful, but there are some seats, mainly in the upper deck that are just horrible. I went to a game the year the park opened and the year that Bonds was on his chase and we could only get upper deck seats. The first time we were very high up and the upper deck isnt very steep like most parks so you couldnt see the first base line. The second time we were in the upper deck out in left field, which is a bit small due to area constraints with the water and all and the foul pole was below us, and LITERALLY blocked the view of home plate. But, in its defense, i have also had tickets to a game where the view was better than at any other Big League park.

EDIT: this should help a bit. We were in the upper deck literally last seats before the dropoff. The pole is right there.

[winters in buffalo]

I was a bit disappointed by the RBC Center. It's nice, but I was used to the HSBC Arena, which despite being 3 years older, is far better.

The biggest problem with RBC is that it's not downtown, and no effort has been made to build around it.

have you been around the RBC lately didnt they build a whole new office complex down there, and new private school(ravenscroft, i do beleive) and a hotel. its not like there is much you can build around there being that the NC STATE fairgrounds and the newly renovated NC STATE football stadium are like ten feet away from it. i heard that Gail Force is trying to push for a huge five star resturant down in the grabtree valley area.

PS. i hate calling it RBC, i worked there on Day 1 when it opened, to me it will always be the ESA

Offices and a school aren't the kind of development that tie in well with an arena. A hotel helps a bit, but having restaurants, bars, maybe even a bit of retail completes the package.

And, by near, I mean NEAR... not within a mile, but within walking distance. At a good urban arena, you can park, walk to dinner, walk to the game, and then walk to a bar afterward, maybe getting the chance to cacth a decent band. At RBC, the only thing you can walk to is the parking.

As Mad Mac pointed out, out by the fairgrounds, they can control what gets built around it. What I would do with the current facility (I'll admit, it's not going anywhere), is replace a few of the surface lots with large parking decks. Then, I'd replace the lots between the stadium and the arena, or else the lots directly east of the stadium, with an entertainment & retail strip.

Of course, I'd still prefer a downtown arena. With all that's being built now, it would have made a great fit. At the very least, it would be a reason for people to go downtown on weekends, and to stay there after 5.

[VitaminD]

have you been around the RBC lately didnt they build a whole new office complex down there, and new private school(ravenscroft, i do believe)...

PS. i hate calling it RBC, i worked there on Day 1 when it opened, to me it will always be the ESA

Unless Ravenscroft built a new school and/or campus, Ravenscroft predates the ESA (screw off, corporate naming rights).

And as much as I agree with you about interstate access, Mac, I'm with WiB. There's something enjoyable about the arenas that are built in a vibrant downtown area. I know downtown Raleigh doesn't have parking (never had it, never will), but as the state capital, there is always going to be a reason for people to congregate downtown for legislation and commerce. Why not make it a cultural hub as well?

Short of that, the current plan isn't a bad one, but it's emblematic of what I didn't like about Raleigh overall: it's not a walkable city, and there's no sense of electricity when you're there - it's its own suburb.

Walk through the streets of NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia or Boston. There's a pulse you can feel. People are out walking and enjoying the city. Raleigh is the opposite. You can't make it a night at a 'Canes game like WiB said. You drive out to the arena, walk through parking lot after parking lot, watch the game, go back through the parking lots, go home. No pregame meal (unless you're going to Damon's), no postgame bars, nothing to do. The ESA is a self-contained island surrounded by very little else.

The Phillies did the same thing putting their park in the middle of oceans of asphalt in South Philadelphia. They could've made a new Camden Yards and built it on the fringes of Center City. Had they shown a little vision and enterprise, they could've built their own neighborhood - condos, brownstones, shops, bars, resturants, parking garages - and made it a modern-day Wrigleyville. Instead, you feel horribly isolated from the city, save 3 other stadia and some food warehouses.

[winters in buffalo]

have you been around the RBC lately didnt they build a whole new office complex down there, and new private school(ravenscroft, i do believe)...

PS. i hate calling it RBC, i worked there on Day 1 when it opened, to me it will always be the ESA

Unless Ravenscroft built a new school and/or campus, Ravenscroft predates the ESA (screw off, corporate naming rights).

And as much as I agree with you about interstate access, Mac, I'm with WiB. There's something enjoyable about the arenas that are built in a vibrant downtown area. I know downtown Raleigh doesn't have parking (never had it, never will), but as the state capital, there is always going to be a reason for people to congregate downtown for legislation and commerce. Why not make it a cultural hub as well?

Short of that, the current plan isn't a bad one, but it's emblematic of what I didn't like about Raleigh overall: it's not a walkable city, and there's no sense of electricity when you're there - it's its own suburb.

Walk through the streets of NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia or Boston. There's a pulse you can feel. People are out walking and enjoying the city. Raleigh is the opposite. You can't make it a night at a 'Canes game like WiB said. You drive out to the arena, walk through parking lot after parking lot, watch the game, go back through the parking lots, go home. No pregame meal (unless you're going to Damon's), no postgame bars, nothing to do. The ESA is a self-contained island surrounded by very little else.

The Phillies did the same thing putting their park in the middle of oceans of asphalt in South Philadelphia. They could've made a new Camden Yards and built it on the fringes of Center City. Had they shown a little vision and enterprise, they could've built their own neighborhood - condos, brownstones, shops, bars, resturants, parking garages - and made it a modern-day Wrigleyville. Instead, you feel horribly isolated from the city, save 3 other stadia and some food warehouses.

wow, we really took this thread off on a tangent. I am, however, inspired to skecth out my idea of what I'd do to make the stadium complex a more attractive destination.

[rainmaker17]

I've always thought the height and verticality of Reliant Stadium were very cool.

Reliant is nice, but it's ..uh...'soul-less' for lack of a better word. Don't get me wrong, the sight lines are amazing but the whole thing really feels forced and artificial to me. It doesn't help that if you have an upper deck ticket you can't even enter the lower deck to check it out. That is seriously wrong in my opinion.

[rainmaker17]

One of the best stadiums ive ever been to is Minute Maid Park in Houston, but if you have tickets to a game in the summer that are in the upper deck, you would be better off staying home. Nice field, good view even, but the heat is unbearable, and the roof makes it even worse

Minute Maid is cool. Very modern, comfortable ball park. Left field is ridiculous though. I think it's 330' to sraightaway left and what's up with the crazy yellow line. Anyone who has refered to MM as a 'band box' is dead on.

I loved seeing the White Sox rush out on to the field after game four though!

[DaytonBlue]

ahh my seats at sbc were a bit lower in the upper deck down first base line. i guess from going to old busch so much having part of the foul line cut off in the outfield isnt the end of the world. though i can't wait for the new one....

Though that got me thinking. People have criticized new Busch Stadium for being too retro and a copycatter. But then I also heard people criticize GABP and PBS in Cincy for being different, Mile High in Denver for being too futuristic, and the Trop for being the Trop (I actually liked it.). So if you had a choice between the two, would you rather have your team's new stadium try something different and risk ridicule or be retro and risk being labeled a copycatter?

BTW, parks that won't let you check out the lower deck pregame or whatever (Reliant, US Cell), except in instances where there wasn't enough space (mostly the almost now gone cookie cutters) are dumb. The stadium is part of the experience. Allowing people to watch warmups or BP is essention IMHO.