A plea for compassion to the NCAA

[Moser316]

It's all so clear as to why the NCAA has all these asinine rules. Not a single person in that organization is either capable of independent thought, nor has the desire to take matters like these on a case-by-case basis.

[WSU151]

Are you f'in serious with that question??

Yes.

Two jobs is the answer in the SHORT RUN so he can afford a basic living for him and his brother.  Once his brother becomes an adult, Ray Ray can always go back to Clemson or another college, get his degree, and make his 30% extra.

The problem with that is that if you either (1) Wait a semester or even a year before starting college, or (2) take at least 1 semester off, your chances of graduating with a degree drops dramatically.

IT'S ALL ABOUT PRIORITIES.

Yup. Gambling your future for short-term needs is surely the way to go through life.

And Fred, I know construction workers (with no college experience at all) who make more than twice the amount of a person with a college diploma.

I know construction workers like that also, I tend to call them dad.

Figure that one out.

I can also show you people with just HS Diplomas making tacos at Taco Bueno, and college graduates as CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Whilst we can spend weeks tossing about point-counterpoint about this, the statistics show clearly that you make more in the long run if you graduate from college.

It's not unheard of for people to go back to school, Fred.  If you think it is unfathomable, well you're not as smart as I thought.

Of course it's not unheard of. Heck, I had to take 18 months off because my previous school screwed me over over financial aid. But as I stated above, if you quit school, you are *much* more likely to never go back. He's got the financial aid already for playing football, so why not pursue it since it's in his hands already?

Besides, something everyone has missed is that he could always have a job whilst playing football. I know of players who have a job even during football season (and no, they aren't jobs Rhett Bomar would be familiar with), so it isn't without precedent. Why not have the best of both worlds?

I can tell you've never had to take care of anyone. And I can tell that you never plan on having the responsibility of taking care of someone, because they'll never be at the top of your list of priorities.

That's all I'm going to say about that, because otherwise I'd start calling you an idiot, and that wouldn't be nice.

Your assessment of "Gambling your future for short-term needs" is just plain stupid in this case. Sorry Fred. If Ray Ray had all the money in the world, then yes, you'd be right. But he doesn't. In fact, he has little to no money. So your assessment is flat out asinine. Ray Ray isn't gambling anything away. He can still get a college degree. He can still have a good future. But right now, his #1 priority HAS to be the kid brother. His goals right now HAVE to be short-term. If he only focuses on long-term goals, he shouldn't have taken custody of an 11-year old.

DIFFERENT EXAMPLE SO PERHAPS YOU CAN GET YOUR HEAD IN SOME AIR AND SUNSHINE: Matt Leinart knocked up a basketball player at USC and she's having the baby in November. She's taking the basketball season off and might take a semester off from school so she can take care of the child. And she's not in the poor house like Ray Ray is. Is she just a complete idiot because she's taking care of short-term needs rather than long-term goals??

Any good parent will always sacrifice for the child. Is Ray Ray really gambling his future away?? I don't think so. If so, how?? COLLEGE IS ALWAYS THERE. Could his future be delayed for five or six years...sure, but that doesn't mean his future is destroyed. If Ray Ray has the discipline to get his degree, he'll go back if he drops out. I wouldn't doubt for a second that Ray Ray wants his degree...it's just that life has handed him some lemons. And Fred, why are you so convinced that he won't go back...is it because of some stupid study and statistic that focused on 1,000 people?? You write like there's no chance he would go back and therefore dropping out is an idiotic decision.

If Ray Ray doesn't have the money at a later date to go to college, or if he simply quits the football team so he can receive more benefits, he can get scholarships, grants, and loans, and pay it back like 90% of the collegiately educated. He really won't suffer unless he lacks the discipline, and if he lacks the discipline, who's to say he was going to get his degree in the first place??

Priorities change man. Short-term goals come way before long term goals when you have to make ends meet. I'm sure Ray Ray would rather take care of his brother NOW and make sure the brother makes it through middle school and high school...rather than having his brother wait three of four years so Ray Ray can graduate college.

Think about it...when Ray Ray graduates, the kid brother will be 15 or 16, and therefore the impact of Ray Ray's college degree wages won't be that great because the brother will be out looking for a job by the time Ray Ray graduates. If Ray Ray drops out now, works a couple of jobs, and delays college by a few years, the impact of whatever wages he can earn now will be much greater because the kid receives the benefits NOW, not three or four years from now... It's all simple economics, personal utility and cost/benefits.

And also, on a side note, if you knew anything about construction Fred, you'd know that a lot of 20-30 year olds are making decent bucks. One of my buddies is 23 and makes $30 an hour without a college degree, doing drywall. I'm 25, with a college education, and I don't make $30 an hour. Not all of the good-paying jobs in construction belong to dads...but nice job with the ignorance.

I'm finished arguing about this, but please respond if so desired.

[fiasco!]

This is insane, I can't believe people (here especially) are against the NCAA changing (not bending or breaking, but changing) rules to help student-athletes with special needs.

Ray Ray obviously led a tough life and overcame that adversity to earn an athletic scholarship to a division 1 school. That's impressive. He took the initiative to take his little brother away from his inept parents to try to give him a better life that he wouldn't have otherwise. That's impressive, especially for a 19 year old in this day and age.

In a world where people constantly look away from others' problems, wouldn't it be a bit refreshing for the NCAA to change it's archaic rules to allow those that need the help receive it? Or is it ok for him to not receive the help, have to drop out of college to get a full time job or two in the south (where wages for the kind of job he'd get without a degree are the worst in the country)?

I'm sorry, but holding down two jobs when making an hourly wage under $10/hour doesn't cut it when you have more than one mouth to feed, provide shelter for, buy school supplies for, etc. Not to mention the child care Ray Ray would have to find and pay for in order to hold down those two full time jobs. It just doesn't work out well when that's the case.

It's called compassion, people. Why wouldn't the NCAA help this family out? They have nothing to lose and a new sparkling image to gain if they would just form a committee to review these types of needs in our student-athletes.

Cheers to Clemson and the ACC for not giving up on this young family.

Quote from John Swofford:

"The circumstances surrounding this situation are unique and deserve a special look from the NCAA. The ACC is in full support of the waiver being submitted on behalf of this young man and we certainly sympathize with his circumstances, which deserve compassion. The ACC will continue to assist Clemson in their quest for special consideration from the NCAA."

"The media reports about circumstances involving a Clemson University football student-athlete (Ray Ray McElrathbey) have not represented the facts. Although the NCAA had no knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the student-athlete until today (Wednesday), it is working with Clemson and the Atlantic Coast Conference to assist the student-athlete.

"Although conference and NCAA rules generally prohibit benefits to student-athletes beyond a grant-in-aid, individual circumstances can and are taken into consideration in unusual situations. The university is preparing a petition for waiver to determine if funds and contributions can be collected to help the young man and his brother."

This statement: ""The media reports about circumstances involving a Clemson University football student-athlete (Ray Ray McElrathbey) have not represented the facts." leads me to believe the NCAA is going to try to do the right thing and help this kid and his brother. God, I hope so. If not, the NCAA will be making a huge mistake.

[paynomind]

WSU, you are being a dick.

Whether you have a legitimate point or not, what you are saying is clouded by your inability to make a point without taking shots. Let me help you, here.

-WSU snips-

Are you f'in serious with that question??

well you're not as smart as I thought.

I can tell you've never had to take care of anyone. And I can tell that you never plan on having the responsibility of taking care of someone, because they'll never be at the top of your list of priorities.

otherwise I'd start calling you an idiot, and that wouldn't be nice.

Your assessment of ... is just plain stupid in this case

PERHAPS YOU CAN GET YOUR HEAD IN SOME AIR AND SUNSHINE

if you knew anything about construction

but nice job with the ignorance.

-End WSU snips-

Man, if you said these things to me, to my face, I'd punch you in your fat nose. I'm serious. You are being a real fcuknut here. Chill. Quit baiting the argument, and discuss real points and have a debate, don?t name call. Once you start that, others follow, and it just becomes name calling and no real debate. See what I mean, dikhead?

I think your point, if I understand it clearly through your 4th grade playground name-calling, is actually one that deserves discussion.

"Shouldn't Ray drop out and do what he can to fix his 'family' situation to the best of his abilities? Shouldn?t football be second to feeding his brother??

Those are questions I'd like to debate, but not with you. Or not with you in this fine mood you are in.

Personally, I don?t think this thread is really about priorities... dependants vs. football isn?t the point here. The point is: NCAA rule idiocy.

This situation illustrates clearly an example of an exception. The rules should be changed to allow this kid to get help feeding and clothing himself and his brother.

Period.

If you don?t think the NCAA should change their rules to help a person in this situation, I disagree with you. But I won?t call you stupid.

[WSU151]

WSU, you are being a dick.

Whether you have a legitimate point or not, what you are saying is clouded by your inability to make a point without taking shots. Let me help you, here.

-WSU snips-

Are you f'in serious with that question??

well you're not as smart as I thought.

I can tell you've never had to take care of anyone.  And I can tell that you never plan on having the responsibility of taking care of someone, because they'll never be at the top of your list of priorities.

otherwise I'd start calling you an idiot, and that wouldn't be nice.

Your assessment of ... is just plain stupid in this case

PERHAPS YOU CAN GET YOUR HEAD IN SOME AIR AND SUNSHINE

if you knew anything about construction

but nice job with the ignorance.

-End WSU snips-

Man, if you said these things to me, to my face, I'd punch you in your fat nose. I'm serious. You are being a real fcuknut here. Chill. Quit baiting the argument, and discuss real points and have a debate, don?t name call. Once you start that, others follow, and it just becomes name calling and no real debate. See what I mean, dikhead?

I think your point, if I understand it clearly through your 4th grade playground name-calling, is actually one that deserves discussion.

"Shouldn't Ray drop out and do what he can to fix his 'family' situation to the best of his abilities? Shouldn?t football be second to feeding his brother??

Those are questions I'd like to debate, but not with you. Or not with you in this fine mood you are in.

Duly noted.

It's just how I argue when I'm upset and riled up, though contrary to your belief, I was arguing/discussing real points. I've done this to a couple of people on the board, and you called me on it...Thank you payno. Sorry Fred.

Personally, I don?t think this thread is really about priorities... dependants vs. football isn?t the point here. The point is: NCAA rule idiocy.

This situation illustrates clearly an example of an exception. The rules should be changed to allow this kid to get help feeding and clothing himself and his brother.

Period.

If you don?t think the NCAA should change their rules to help a person in this situation, I disagree with you. But I won?t call you stupid.

I think this situation is all about priorities if the NCAA won't change the rule for Ray Ray. If they do give him an exception, how much should the NCAA give him?? What's reasonable?? How much should other exceptions to the rule be given? If the sum of money is significant, wouldn't you expect to see a rise in athletes adopting and/or having kids just to be an exception and get some cash? How do you stop it from getting out of hand?

And, most importantly, when did the NCAA become a social welfare program??

I'm sorry, but holding down two jobs when making an hourly wage under $10/hour doesn't cut it when you have more than one mouth to feed, provide shelter for, buy school supplies for, etc. Not to mention the child care Ray Ray would have to find and pay for in order to hold down those two full time jobs. It just doesn't work out well when that's the case.

Joel, I'll go back to one of my original questions... How do single, uneducated moms raise multiple kids, especially in the South? Seriously, just in the sports world alone, there are hundreds of stores where moms worked multiple jobs and the kids came out okay. It's not impossible.

Anyway, it appears the NCAA will make the exception. Does it have to? Absolutely not.

[meetthemets]

If they do give him an exception, how much should the NCAA give him?? What's reasonable?? How much should other exceptions to the rule be given? And when did the NCAA become a welfare program??

He's not looking for a handout or money from the NCAA. Other people want to help him out finacially and the NCAA isn't letting them. If you had read the original article you would have known that.

[WSU151]

If they do give him an exception, how much should the NCAA give him??  What's reasonable??  How much should other exceptions to the rule be given?  And when did the NCAA become a welfare program??

He's not looking for a handout or money from the NCAA. Other people want to help him out finacially and the NCAA isn't letting them. If you had read the original article you would have known that.

meetthemets you're right. Sorry.

Also, if a student-athlete living in San Francisco had the same situation, should the NCAA give that person more to keep with the cost of living, or the same as to uphold the virtue of equality in NCAA student-athletes??

[Shumway]

If he drops out of school, like some are suggesting, do you honestly think his $10/hr at most will pay off his college in the future, assuming he does in fact go back. With the way tuition goes up on a stead yearly rate, I wouldn't think so.

Since he has a scholarship, whether it be partial or full, it'd be in his best interest to take it. In however many years, he won't be offered another football scholarship.

Getting charity because you truly need it is completely different than what some NCAA players get, as far as "extra benefits". It's not like he's getting an Escalade or a fully paid-for apartment.

[WSU151]

If he drops out of school, like some are suggesting, do you honestly think his $10/hr at most will pay off his college in the future, assuming he does in fact go back. With the way tuition goes up on a stead yearly rate, I wouldn't think so.

Well if he drops out, then goes back to school and applies for financial aid (and he will be granted probably 100% because of need either in loans and/or grants), he won't start paying back the loans until five years AFTER he graduates, which means he has five years to make a really good wage (more than $10 an hour) before he starts paying his loans back.

[CaolinaJoe]

Getting charity because you truly need it is completely different than what some NCAA players get, as far as "extra benefits". It's not like he's getting an Escalade or a fully paid-for apartment.

For the sake of arguement. Let's say this guy turns out to be "one of those special players", how do you determine "charity" form "special benefit" in the future? Don't you think boosters will eventually use this to funnel money his way? What happens to the brother for roadtrips and the Bowl game week?

WSU, the player from USC that is pregnant can afford to take a year off. She's having a lottery ticket. Money will not be an issue when the father of your child is worth a guarateed $20million vs. a crack addict/gambler.

Again I say, forfeit the athletic scholarship. Quit the football team. Clemson converts his scholarship to a grant/academic scholarship.(If it is academic I doubt the NCAA cares a bit what he does)

Clemson shows they "really" and Ray Ray(after 12 it is time to eliminate one of those Ray's) shows he cares more about his brother and education than just playing football(that would be the sacrifice part some are talking about).

[WSU151]

WSU, the player from USC that is pregnant can afford to take a year off.  She's having a lottery ticket.  Money will not be an issue when the father of your child is worth a guarateed $20million vs. a crack addict/gambler.

Yes, good point.

I would assume her situation in not unique though, and it is my opinion that women who have to give up a sport and even school (for a short amount of time) to take care of an infant are not gambling away or forfeiting their future.

[fiasco!]

Joel, I'll go back to one of my original questions? How do single, uneducated moms raise multiple kids, especially in the South? Seriously, just in the sports world alone, there are hundreds of stores where moms worked multiple jobs and the kids came out okay. It's not impossible.

Anyway, it appears the NCAA will make the exception. Does it have to? Absolutely not.

I know it's not impossible, but it sure ain't easy. Many single parents have family to help them with childcare and the like. Ray Ray doesn't have family, unless you count a crackhead mother and a gambling addict for a father.

If the NCAA were to form a "special needs" committee, i'd have to assume that the money it would allow a student-athlete to receive would be carefully monitored, and a cap would be put on the amount based on cost of living at that particular location. Clemson is a much lower cost of living than San Francisco, therefore a "special needs" case in SF would be allocated more than the case in Clemson. It's not hard to figure out grocery, gasoline, utilities, and rent expenses for a month. I'd put the cap at 5-10% over those living expenses, that way the NCAA can monitor where the allocated funds are going.

But that's just me.

As for the cost of living vs. wages in my area (and I'm only 20 miles from Clemson), my family struggles every month to make ends meet. According to rough numbers that i just did, after mortgage, one car payment, utilities, trash pickup, insurance, child care (2 kids, one in full daycare, one in after school care), gasoline (which is rising all the time), etc., we have $763 to spend every month on groceries and whatever little extra activities or whatever activities we find out about at the last minute from school. That's not much left over for a family of 4. A college educated family of 4. Factor in clothing, birthdays and holidays, the very few times we eat out. It's a tough road for a family these days. I can only imagine how tough it is for a young man trying to do the right thing by making sure his little brother is raised in a decent environment.

I know i strayed away from the subject a bit. Sorry.

[paynomind]

I did read the article. I know he's not looking for a handout, because it's against rules. But how much (in a $ figure) should the NCAA assist him?????? How much food, how many clothes, how many books?? What about other needs, such as sporting goods, camp costs, etc etc etc. It's not that hard of a question.

You missed it again. He's not taking FROM the NCAA. The exception he wants is not to get money form the NCAA.

He wants an exception so he may take food or clothes from a private party's donation.

I think if what a booster or citizen or school itself gives you is in the "food stamps" equivilant, it shoudl not be considered a benefit.

[WSU151]

I know it's not impossible, but it sure ain't easy. Many single parents have family to help them with childcare and the like.  Ray Ray doesn't have family, unless you count a crackhead mother and a gambling addict for a father.

A crackhead mother and a gambling father are worthless as family members. I don't know if he has any extended family, but I'm not going to say that he does, either.

If the NCAA were to form a "special needs" committee, i'd have to assume that the money it would allow a student-athlete to receive would be carefully monitored, and a cap would be put on the amount based on cost of living at that particular location. Clemson is a much lower cost of living than San Francisco, therefore a "special needs" case in SF would be allocated more than the case in Clemson.  It's not hard to figure out grocery, gasoline, utilities, and rent expenses for a month.  I'd put the cap at 5-10% over those living expenses, that way the NCAA can monitor where the allocated funds are going.

But that's just me.

Hey...good points, and it certainly would be a fair system. I'd almost guarantee you that someone would complain about some discrepancy in the "special needs" grants, you know? However, I agree with your system and think it would be the best system.

As for the cost of living vs. wages in my area (and I'm only 20 miles from Clemson), my family struggles every month to make ends meet. According to rough numbers that i just did, after mortgage, one car payment, utilities, trash pickup, insurance, child care (2 kids, one in full daycare, one in after school care), gasoline (which is rising all the time), etc., we have $763 to spend every month on groceries and whatever little extra activities or whatever activities we find out about at the last minute from school.  That's not much left over for a family of 4.  A college educated family of 4.  Factor in clothing, birthdays and holidays, the very few times we eat out.  It's a tough road for a family these days. I can only imagine how tough it is for a young man trying to do the right thing by making sure his little brother is raised in a decent environment.

I know i strayed away from the subject a bit. Sorry.

Hey, thanks for sharing - not many people divulge that much information. I wish your family the best. I don't think it'll be easy at all for Ray Ray to raise his brother if he drops out - but I do think it'd be easier for the kid brother if there was steady income (or, rather, ANY income) now rather than waiting three or four years so R-R can finish up his degree on a football scholarship. CaolinaJoe has a good point of dropping the football scholarship and giving him an academic one.

Good post, joel.

payno and meetthemets - I'm an idiot. I freely admit that. Now I know the facts, how will the NCAA regulate contributions from private parties for a "special needs" person, especially if the contributions are more than money?? Joel says they will monitor it closely, which is fine. Do donors send the money and gifts to the NCAA and then the NCAA disperses it for record-keeping purposes and legitimacy?? Seems pretty inefficient, a red-tape nightmare, really. If people send checks or clothes or meals personally to the players, then that obviously has the potential to end up in a mess of what was reported and what wasn't reported. If I send Ray Ray a week's worth of filet mignon steaks, is that an extra benefit? Yes, food stamps would be a good alternative, payno, but it's only work if the monitoring is super super close. I guess one solution would be to have an NCAA rep living with the student-athlete and monitor everything.

And again, I apologize...I originally thought the NCAA was setting up a fund of its own to help these people, and therefore the NCAA could set an amount based on its budget. But private donations add a new twist.

[Jigga]

Please note, the following is not meant as an attempt to call out any particular person. It is just my attempt to add my thoughts to this debate. Thank you.

------------------------

He should not quit school or the football team, in my opinion, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around this thing.

As a football player, he gets more acadmic support than any other student on that damn campus. No football, no tutors, no fat girl doing your papers for you, and no professors scared to give you anything less than a C.

In all seriousness though, you can't be certain that the university would give him a dime in academic, meaning merit-based, support. Need based aid (Federal Pell Grant, Stafford Loans) is fine, but that probably won't give him all the money he needs, but at this point in the semester it's too late for all that stuff.

I just hope we aren't missing the forest for the trees. Who knows if he has the proper money management/parental skills needed to take care of his brother? If Ray Ray quits football and/or school, then he and his brother are subsidized without regulation. There's no guarantee that he won't take the 30 grand and get a nice ride with 24s on 'em. If the NCAA "watches over" the money, at least it raisely the likelihood it can be spent where it needs to be...on the little brother.

My other firm belief is that if there is no football, there is no sappy, sweet, bleeding heart story. Ray Ray just becomes the average Joe Student that gets no breaks or as my boy, JR, puts it, "because Ray Ray can ball, he's got donors...if he quits, he becomes thousands of other folks trying to survive with no help."

And one last thing, what if Ray Ray has NFL talent? If he doesn't play, he can't go to the NFL. If he makes an NFL roster at all, he and his brother are taken care of!

Feel free to rip, or carefully deconstruct.

[WSU151]

If Ray Ray quits football and/or school, then he and his brother are subsidized without regulation.  There's no guarantee that he won't take the 30 grand and get a nice ride with 24s on 'em.  If the NCAA "watches over" the money, at least it raisely the likelihood it can be spent where it needs to be...on the little brother. 

And one last thing, what if Ray Ray has NFL talent?  If he doesn't play, he can't go to the NFL.  If he makes an NFL roster at all, he and his brother are taken care of!

Two thoughts of deconstruction...one per paragraph quoted. The rest was good discourse.

1) I'm not sure, I don't have the facts...but once Ray Ray quits the football team, isn't his scholarship revoked? Tuition part of the scholarship has certainly been paid for fall, so he can't use that money. And I don't think he's subsidized for the rest if he quits. I could be wrong.

2) If he does have NFL talent, Ray Ray and his brother will have to wait two or three years for him to reach the NFL. What happens in the mean time?

Three distinct possibilities here if the NCAA has no compassion:

Ray Ray plays football, uses scholarship until graduation or NFL draft, but struggles mightily with bills because he doesn't have enough money to support the kid brother until graduation (granted he'll find a good paying job soon after graduation) or NFL draft.

Ray Ray quits football, continues school for the fall semester (which is paid), works more hours due to no football practice, and struggles somewhat paying bills, and struggles with spring tuition because he has no financial aid package in place.

Ray Ray drops out of school, works a job or two, gets paid more because there are more working hours available and no school, but he is better able to monetarily support the brother until his brother becomes part of the workforce.

[Jigga]

Oops, I should have typed a bit more clearly. Subsidized meaning all those donations they would have received, I wasn't referring to scholarship money.

[jkrdevil]

Apparently the NCAA has decided to help Ray Ray out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/sto...gene&id=2586435

Good thing.

[KevinMcD]

Hopefully this will help Ray Ray and his brother.

Nice of the NCAA to finally get a heart.