once and for all..

[Slickster]

Once and for all, I'd like to ask about the legality of using old logos.

1. If the sports league or team that paid for that logo goes out of business, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

2. If a logo or team name was trademarked but has not been used in trade in the past seven years, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

[Gothamite]

I'm thinking no, and no. But I'm sure it depends on the circumstances.

As for the first, companies that go out of business usually leave behind a trail of creditors, who pick up the pieces in order to reclaim as much money owed them as possible. That means the trademarks are usually transferred to somebody else, with the rest of the assets.

To the second point, are you still talking about a team/league that folded, or an extant one that no longer uses a particular logo? If so, I would bet that the team still owns the rights to it - witness the Cooperstown/Hardwood Classic/Throwback collections, where leagues are merchandising logos the teams haven't actually used in decades.

Do you have any particular one in mind? You could check with the Feds, see if it's still registered. But if you're considering using it for a moneymaking venture, get a lawyer to tell you what you can and cannot do.

[SgtCarp]

I've always wondered about stuff like this. On a related note I see countless high schools using logos exactly the same as college or pro teams (my school, for example, uses an "M" identical to the U of Michigan logo). Do they have to get permission from the school or team that originally used it?

[mends]

i'm in the process of starting a business that will doing some defunct teams...

the answer is...

sometimes you can use them, sometimes not.... it varies a lot from team to team...

a trademark is considered abandoned after it is no longer used to generate revenue for the owner after (i think) 3 years...

you can search for a trademark on the usa trademarks and patents website

in some cases such as: the old aba, spirit of st louis & virginia squires... the NBA has obtained the trademark... some of the other teams, they did not

you can have a lawyer file the proper paperwork for you to obtain an abandoned trademark, but i've been finding the fees are about $1500 per trademark...

technically: if the trademark has been truly abandoned, it is in the public domain until someone picks it up... but after talking to several lawyers, just because the trademark appears to be abandoned, doesn't necessarily mean it has... there can be more than 1 person that says they own it, and only a court can decide the true owner (which means even more $ if it gets to that point)

[Jimmy!]

Once and for all, I'd like to ask about the legality of using old logos.

1. If the sports league or team that paid for that logo goes out of business, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

2. If a logo or team name was trademarked but has not been used in trade in the past seven years, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Trademarks can last indefinitely, but they have to be renewed periodically. Just because a trademark expires, doesn't mean the copyrighted work expires, though. Copyrights last a lot longer.

Bottom line: Get a good copyright attorney.

[Gothamite]

Which gets me back to: why are you asking?

And if you're intending to make any money at all, get a lawyer.

[ElwoodCuse]

I've always wondered about stuff like this. On a related note I see countless high schools using logos exactly the same as college or pro teams (my school, for example, uses an "M" identical to the U of Michigan logo). Do they have to get permission from the school or team that originally used it?

They do need to get permission but enforcement of this is spotty. Some teams/schools don't care, some do. Wisconsin has gone after a lot of people for stealing their W (Uniwatch mentions this a lot). Other schools want you to get permission but grant it to anyone who simply asks first (K-State, I think, licenses that Wildcat for a dollar to any high school/pop warner team that asks).

Often it just comes down to "who notices?" As much as the NFL likes to play IP/Uniform Cop, they can't find everyone--a lot of people using logos will simply fly under everyone's radar.

[Mac the Knife]

Once and for all, I'd like to ask about the legality of using old logos.

1. If the sports league or team that paid for that logo goes out of business, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

2. If a logo or team name was trademarked but has not been used in trade in the past seven years, is it legal to repurpose that design without additional compensation to the logo's original designer?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Trademarks can last indefinitely, but they have to be renewed periodically. Just because a trademark expires, doesn't mean the copyrighted work expires, though. Copyrights last a lot longer.

Bottom line: Get a good copyright attorney.

Well said. Whether its still an active trademark or not, the copyright almost certainly is - and odds are, someone holds it. In that case, you have to track them down to get permission to use it.