Presenting the Baltimore Mariners

[gueman]

http://www.baltimoremariners.com

This is the replacement team for the Baltimore Blackbirds who were kicked out of the league because they "talked" to another league. The league still held the lease on the arena in Baltimore so they decided to fill it with a team to play in front of 10,000 empty seats. I doubt they will last the season.

Baltimore has a history of not supporting minor league teams, except for the CFL Colts, and the AFL Skipjacks while under local ownership.

The MISL Blast is an anomaly, but even they don't draw they way they used too. Baltimore is still using an outdated arena that the NHL thought was outdated in 1965 and awarded St. Louis the franchise that was to be awarded to Baltimore.

[leopard88]

Baltimore is still using an outdated arena that the NHL thought was outdated in 1965 and awarded St. Louis the franchise that was to be awarded to Baltimore.

I thought the franchise wound up going to Philadelphia . . . at least as I remember the story.

Back on topic, the league supposedly has a guaranteed revenue stream from media sources that will make it easier for all of the teams to try to make a go of it. That being said, you are right about Baltimore's history of not supporting minor league teams, so the outlook isn't strong even if the team lasts through the season. I've seen very little in the way of promotion, to the point I'm not sure that many people know the team exists.

As far as the Blast are concerned, it is a long way from the days of consistent crowds of 11,000-12,000 fans (with 12,000 being basically a sellout at the Baltimore Arena -- no, I'm not making that up). These days, 8,000 is considered a really good night. Speaking for myself, I was a part of many of those sellout crowds, but I've probably been to 2 games in the last 8-10 years . . . and I'm obviously not alone in that.

Finally, I know we're not in Sports Logos, but I'll comment anyway. I'm not particularly impressed. The idea is decent, but isn't very well executed. The wordmark is better, though there isn't much to it (and the use of a compass for a team named the Mariners isn't exactly original).

[gueman]

Baltimore is still using an outdated arena that the NHL thought was outdated in 1965 and awarded St. Louis the franchise that was to be awarded to Baltimore.

I thought the franchise wound up going to Philadelphia . . . at least as I remember the story...

Finally, I know we're not in Sports Logos, but I'll comment anyway. I'm not particularly impressed. The idea is decent, but isn't very well executed. The wordmark is better, though there isn't much to it (and the use of a compass for a team named the Mariners isn't exactly original).

Nope St. Louis was the last team awarded. And what really killed Baltimore was the stage at the end. The CITY did not want to remove the stage for seats, making it seat about 16,000 or so. I only know this because I at a party a few years ago and Ted Patterson was there and some how we got into talking about the Civic Center.

As for the logo...it looks like a cut and paste of a skull, a hat, a patch and some hair.

I did see were they are looking for people to dress as pirates for games and you get a ticket and team merchandise instead of getting paid. I think I just might look into that. If they are still around in a week.

There will be a lot of promo stuff at Royal Farm soon though.

But they need a TV deal, even if it is like the Blast on MPT.

[leopard88]

Nope St. Louis was the last team awarded. And what really killed Baltimore was the stage at the end. The CITY did not want to remove the stage for seats, making it seat about 16,000 or so. I only know this because I at a party a few years ago and Ted Patterson was there and some how we got into talking about the Civic Center.

I did see were they are looking for people to dress as pirates for games and you get a ticket and team merchandise instead of getting paid. I think I just might look into that. If they are still around in a week.

But they need a TV deal, even if it is like the Blast on MPT.

1. Ted Patterson would know better than me. The irony about the stage is that I remember discussions in the '80s about how to get rid of it and put in seats at that end.

2. I think pics are in order if you do it.

3. Agreed. Any exposure is good exposure for a team like this.

[BaltimoreFan]

I believe the city is supposed to decide on a plan to build a new arena in the very near future (I heard Spring 2008 in November). Hopefully we'll at least be able to get a "real" Arena football team with (maybe NBA or NHL if we build it big enough). This team does look pretty bad, but I may try to see a game if I have a chance. I recently went to a Blast game and I'd say they are doing quite well. Not a sellout but still alot of people, many that seemed like regulars.

[JH42XCC]

The Skipjacks were an AHL team, not AFL.

[Burning River]

Bad, bad logo... It's all been said: Clip art, amateur....

Wow... The Baltimore Civic Center (as I remember it!) I remember watching Force games on TV and thinking how CRAZY cool that place was. Such a unique set up. I remember they DID have seating on the stage. Plus, the floor seating on the other end was kind of cool.

Although... I will never... EVER forget the crazy paint job the wall and facing surrounding the stage had!! I think it was red with orange and purple stripes! I think all the walls were red too. Those were the days!! Freakin' Stamenkovic!!! (RIP)

Still hate the song "Celebration!" to this day!

[gueman]

The Skipjacks were an AHL team, not AFL.

You are correct. Sorry typo...

Still hate the song "Celebration!" to this day!

I feel the same way about "We are Family" after the 79 WS.

I believe the city is supposed to decide on a plan to build a new arena in the very near future (I heard Spring 2008 in November). Hopefully we'll at least be able to get a "real" Arena football team with (maybe NBA or NHL if we build it big enough).

Well there have been so many attempts since the 80's. I doubt a NBA or NHL team is in the future. But a nice joint for the AFL, AHL, concerts, collage BB and the like would be good.

I always thought that is what they should have put on the site of the GM plant on Broening Hwy. when that was closed a few years back.

[Island_Style]

HA! A skull with hair.

[leopard88]

Although... I will never... EVER forget the crazy paint job the wall and facing surrounding the stage had!! I think it was red with orange and purple stripes! I think all the walls were red too. Those were the days!! Freakin' Stamenkovic!!! (RIP)

Still hate the song "Celebration!" to this day!

It was painted white/cream some time back in the '80s. It made the place look a lot bigger, but there was something about the old paint job that was pretty cool.

Love the song, by the way. We used to play soccer in my basement and run around singing it after each goal.

I feel the same way about "We are Family" after the 79 WS.

Ditto. Even my 6-year-old son knows the story. When my wife wanted to play it at our wedding, I asked for advance warning so I could go outside.

I always thought that is what they should have put on the site of the GM plant on Broening Hwy. when that was closed a few years back.

The Canton area (i.e., Ed Hale territory -- near First Mariner headquarters) is one of the prospective sites. The Broening Highway site would probably work just as well, with a short access road to tie it into I-95. I'm not sure what the current plan for that site is.

I would love to see a new arena on the current site, but there is no suitable backup while a new arena is being built. Unless you go south or west of M&T Bank Stadium, it would also be hard to find another site in/near downtown Baltimore.

[BaltimoreFan]

Well there have been so many attempts since the 80's. I doubt a NBA or NHL team is in the future. But a nice joint for the AFL, AHL, concerts, collage BB and the like would be good.

I always thought that is what they should have put on the site of the GM plant on Broening Hwy. when that was closed a few years back.

Yea, I'm not sure how big the arena will be. But there is talk that it might be too small for the NBA or NHL anyway. I know we wouldn't be in any immediate plans for either league, but I got to think we'd be high on the list of future cities considering some of the ones that are currently on it. But I'd be very happy just to get an AFL and another AHL team. It'd also be good for college games. We could possibly host the first round of the NCAA tournament and maybe a Terps game once a season. It'd also be great to bring back the Battle of Baltimore tournament, especially since alot of local mid majors teams are doing so well (Go UMBC!). There are still alot of great options that aren't NBA or NHL.

For anyone who's interested, here is the Sun paper's page about a new arena. It has some different articles and a map of possible locations.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/soccer/...96.storygallery

[gueman]

The Canton area (i.e., Ed Hale territory -- near First Mariner headquarters) is one of the prospective sites. The Broening Highway site would probably work just as well, with a short access road to tie it into I-95. I'm not sure what the current plan for that site is.

I would love to see a new arena on the current site, but there is no suitable backup while a new arena is being built. Unless you go south or west of M&T Bank Stadium, it would also be hard to find another site in/near downtown Baltimore.

The old GM plant is well on the way to being mixed use light industrial. Think Hunt Valley! West of M&T is a prime site and if they could build the replacement for Pimlico in the same complex it would be best of both worlds.

[leopard88]

Wow... The Baltimore Civic Center (as I remember it!) I remember watching Force games on TV and thinking how CRAZY cool that place was. Such a unique set up. I remember they DID have seating on the stage. Plus, the floor seating on the other end was kind of cool.

Although... I will never... EVER forget the crazy paint job the wall and facing surrounding the stage had!! I think it was red with orange and purple stripes! I think all the walls were red too. Those were the days!! Freakin' Stamenkovic!!! (RIP)

I tried to find an old picture of the stage end wall to show to the unitiated, but no luck.

I did find a seating chart to prove (?) that yes, through really poor planning in the early 60s, the building is a large square (see the lower sections, since the uppers sections erroneously make it look like there is diagonal wall in the corner) and has a permanent stage at one end (almost like a high school auditorium). I should also point out that all of the seats face straight ahead, no matter where they are located. For example, if you are sitting in Section 218, your seat looks straight across to Section 217.

[Burning River]

Actually, the upper level is directly above the lower level. (Meaning blue directly above yellow in seating chart above). If you look at the current seat viewer for the Blast. You can get a better idea of how cramped the building is. Here are some pics:

[leopard88]

Actually, the upper level is directly above the lower leverl, no?

Correct, as your pictures show.

That first picture is from almost exactly where I used to sit during the early to mid-80s. My best friend's father had season tickets in the last row before the lower concourse (i.e., in the 100 level, midway up the lower bowl) in the section closest to the stage end of the building. That picture is probably from about 10 rows closer, but still looks awfully familiar.

The last picture (which appears to be from the 200 level) shows that the seats on the end sections actually look out over the seats in the 100 level. It's not as if it is that big a deal to turn your head about 20 degrees, but these days no one would design an arena like that.

Again for the unitiated, it is that large white/cream wall in the third picture that was painted red, orange and purple in the 70s and early 80s. The seats were red too.

[gueman]

To be honest it is a good concert venue. But it has a lot of wasted space. I have been all through that place for work. The area under the 100 level seats contains large conference rooms (mostly unused). Also there is a 400 level too that allows access to the space above the sound baffles. Also the area behind the stage is HUGE. But the overall infrastructure is in shambles. If the Blast and all the other stuff could be relocated for a season, the lot location would still work as an arena. Also as you enter the building through the employee entrance there are 15 to 20 vintage newspaper ads for all the events there, The Beatles, the Stones, Elvis etc.. I would kill to have those. Well maybe not kill, but maim, definitely maim.

[BaltimoreFan]

If the Blast and all the other stuff could be relocated for a season, the lot location would still work as an arena.

I've heard they could move to Towson University. Personally I think they should just choose a different location for a new arena, such as Lexington Market or Gateway South (as they would both be accessible from the light rail). Then just keep the First Mariner Arena up until the new one was finished. That way the Blast wouldn't have to move or shut down for a season or so. Also the city wouldn't lose events like concerts, monster trucks, the circus, etc. for time it took to build a new arena. They could lose quite a bit of money if they tear down and rebuild at the same site.

[gueman]

If the Blast and all the other stuff could be relocated for a season, the lot location would still work as an arena.

I've heard they could move to Towson University. Personally I think they should just choose a different location for a new arena, such as Lexington Market or Gateway South (as they would both be accessible from the light rail). Then just keep the First Mariner Arena up until the new one was finished. That way the Blast wouldn't have to move or shut down for a season or so. Also the city wouldn't lose events like concerts, monster trucks, the circus, etc. for time it took to build a new arena. They could lose quite a bit of money if they tear down and rebuild at the same site.

I donno the Towson Center is really small. And I know it was in the Sun but how would they put an arena at Lexington Market? While the market is a dump, it is historic and it would be a real fight would ensue. After looking at google earth the site just south of M&T looks great, except it is next to the incinerator.

I think it is all moot though because with out a AFL or AHL commitment I doubt the state would act. NOW...Ed Hale has the cash to fund it privately, but why should he as the state is all to willing to pay for these things.

[leopard88]

If the Blast and all the other stuff could be relocated for a season, the lot location would still work as an arena.

I've heard they could move to Towson University. Personally I think they should just choose a different location for a new arena, such as Lexington Market or Gateway South (as they would both be accessible from the light rail). Then just keep the First Mariner Arena up until the new one was finished. That way the Blast wouldn't have to move or shut down for a season or so. Also the city wouldn't lose events like concerts, monster trucks, the circus, etc. for time it took to build a new arena. They could lose quite a bit of money if they tear down and rebuild at the same site.

I donno the Towson Center is really small. And I know it was in the Sun but how would they put an arena at Lexington Market? While the market is a dump, it is historic and it would be a real fight would ensue. After looking at google earth the site just south of M&T looks great, except it is next to the incinerator.

I think it is all moot though because with out a AFL or AHL commitment I doubt the state would act. NOW...Ed Hale has the cash to fund it privately, but why should he as the state is all to willing to pay for these things.

Besides the limited capacity (approx. 5,000), the other problem with the Towson Center is that it isn't configured for indoor soccer. It is laid out solely as a basketball arena and probably doesn't have enough room between the endline walls for a hockey rink/indoor soccer field.

I know Towson Univ. has plans in the works (or at least in discussion) to completely overhaul the interior of the Towson Center, though I have never been able to find any drawings or schematics of the layout. Even if that plan moves forward, it would be several years before the Towson Center might be a plausible temporary solution.

The bottom line is that as good as the current Arena site is, rebuilding there probably isn't a workable solution. If proximity to transit is considered paramount the sites south and west of M&T Bank Stadium are the best solution. If that is not considered a priority, the area near the First Mariner headquarters in Canton could be an equally suitable option.

[BaltimoreFan]

I donno the Towson Center is really small. And I know it was in the Sun but how would they put an arena at Lexington Market? While the market is a dump, it is historic and it would be a real fight would ensue. After looking at google earth the site just south of M&T looks great, except it is next to the incinerator.

I think it is all moot though because with out a AFL or AHL commitment I doubt the state would act. NOW...Ed Hale has the cash to fund it privately, but why should he as the state is all to willing to pay for these things.

Apparently, the Lexington Market arena would be built were there is currently a parking garage. So nothing historic would be lost and it would redevelop the area. I reread one of the articles and it said Ed Hale is actually willing to build a new 17-19,000 seat arena in Canton close to 1st Mariner Bank. Before I heard he was only willing to build a 15,000 seat arena. I think it would be wise to build it big enough for the big leagues because you never know what will happen 10 years from now (unless of course you do build it too small), especially if Hale is willing to fund most/all of it. We should hear some news about this soon, it could be a very exciting time.