Big Blue Signs Warner

[Ez Street]

Kurt and Dick reunite!

Yes, i know.....there is no yellow around the numbers.

[NJTank]

Maybe next year Warner in New York is likely a one year thing to help tutor Eli, and this will only benefit Eli learning from a 2-time MVP.

[See Red]

Ok -- I don't like it being said that it'd be difficult to find another person like him in sports. You can't go talk about how the media distorts stories about Kurt Warner and then talk about how he's better than the stereotypical athlete because in reality, the media distorts that too. There ARE, contrary to belief, athletes that are good people. Because I can name tons who I'm sure have done as much if not more for a particular cause or causes than him.

But... that's not the point -- the point is... The Giants should NOT have done this. Sorry to go against the grain of thoughts -- but doing this would be a very bad idea. Why you ask? Because Kurt Warner will not help Eli Manning, and he will not even give the Giants a chance. Here's a report from Sports Illustrated.

I say not much is happening, except that I read in the paper Thursday morning that the Giants are toying with the idea of hiring Kurt Warner.

I won't go too far with this, but I can assure you Giants fans out there that this would be quite a serious mistake, and let's leave it at that. Of course you won't leave it at that. What am I, nuts or something? OK, here's what my spies on the Rams tell me: Warner's hand is not right, which is why he has trouble throwing sometimes, or even gripping the ball (remember his six fumbles against the Giants last year?). He did not take kindly to his benching. "We had a guy assigned to keep Kurt away from Marc Bulger on the sidelines during games," my spy told me. If you were the Giants, would you want to take on those problems?

Why would the Giants take him when they saw his problem with fumbling first hand last season? Not to mention, with the beating's and injuries Warner has taken over the last few years, he's gonna be very shakey in the pocket. Warner will not be same player as the one who was put into a situation where he could not fail frankly because... he CAN fail in this situation, it's very likely. He has good WR's... but they don't even touch the WR core he had in St. Louis.

The Giants are in a position to contend this year... why ruin that? I would've traded for Gannon because Gannon is now in a system which will no longer be based on the short ball like years past, so Gannon can't rely on his strength so it won't be long until Kerry Collins is probably gonna be the starter in Oakland. Or hell --just throw Manning into the fire. Sure, he's not ready, but he'll get ready. He's already dealt with the National Media -- all he has to do to respond to the media is say "Hey, my last name's Manning. I was taken first overall, how about you guys?" Eli IS good enough to allow the Giants to compete this season.

Oh well, good chance Eli will be starting by mid-season.

*and this is not the first report I've read about the severity of the problems with Kurt Warners hand.

[See Red]

Additionally, this is from another website about the broken pinkie that Kurt Warner suffered...

If there is one injury you might think is unimportant, it may be a broken pinkie. In fact, though, this injury can be partially disabling. My hand surgeon (displaying his own permanently deformed pinkie!) explained to me that the ring and pinkie fingers are responsible for more than 75% of grip strength. To prevent loss of strength from a broken pinkie, serious rehabilitation is necessary, including weight training.

When the pinkie breaks, more than the bone is damaged. Other structures in the finger are usually affected, including fragile ligaments on each side of the joint. As a result, the tensor muscles are left much stronger than the extensors. This leads to the tell-tale hook, a permanent disfigurement that only diligent attention can avoid.

[STL FANATIC]

This spy sounds pretty made up to me.

The hand is healed. Most reports say that. The Rams president told the Giants that. He threw awesome with it in preseason (the best he's ever had), and he threw awesome in the last game of the year vs. the Lions (many of his recievers however had given up, plus, seemed surprised by perfect throws at the numbers).

As for them hiring someone to keep Kurt away from Bulger. That's the biggest load of horse hockey I have ever heard. Kurt was always over there talking to Bulger, hugging him after he did good things, mentoring him after he made (many) mistakes. One time Martz told Warner to start warming up because Bulger was playing bad (again) and Martz was considering putting Warner in. Warner told Martz "Don't do it to the kid." Warner has been a great help to Bulger, and Bulger readily admits it. I'm sure Warner didn't take well to his benching. No athlete should. But Warner never said or did anything to imply it other than saying throughout the year he wants to play, but he'll help the team as he is needed. He handled the situation first class.

If Warner can get people to think a young, mediocre QB like Marc Bulger is good, imagine what he can do for a young, GOOD QB like Eli Manning.

I'm glad to hear the Giants feel like a contender though. Warner should do great than. I was worried that if the Giants were preparing for a 2-14 season or something that Warner really wouldn't have much of a shot to showcase his talent. Now he does, and that's great to hear.

This is a good move for 2 of the 3 parties. The Rams get hurt bad by it.

[yh]

Not that every touchdown was because God didn't want the Titans to win.

Well, seeing as how Titans are emblematic of polytheism (a direct contravention of the First Commandment), perhaps he was on the Rams' side.

[habsfannova]

This spy sounds pretty made up to me.

The hand is healed. Most reports say that. The Rams president told the Giants that. He threw awesome with it in preseason (the best he's ever had), and he threw awesome in the last game of the year vs. the Lions (many of his recievers however had given up, plus, seemed surprised by perfect throws at the numbers).  

As for them hiring someone to keep Kurt away from Bulger. That's the biggest load of horse hockey I have ever heard. Kurt was always over there talking to Bulger, hugging him after he did good things, mentoring him after he made (many) mistakes. One time Martz told Warner to start warming up because Bulger was playing bad (again) and Martz was considering putting Warner in. Warner told Martz "Don't do it to the kid." Warner has been a great help to Bulger, and Bulger readily admits it. I'm sure Warner didn't take well to his benching. No athlete should. But Warner never said or did anything to imply it other than saying throughout the year he wants to play, but he'll help the team as he is needed. He handled the situation first class.

If Warner can get people to think a young, mediocre QB like Marc Bulger is good, imagine what he can do for a young, GOOD QB like Eli Manning.

I'm glad to hear the Giants feel like a contender though. Warner should do great than. I was worried that if the Giants were preparing for a 2-14 season or something that Warner really wouldn't have much of a shot to showcase his talent. Now he does, and that's great to hear.

This is a good move for 2 of the 3 parties. The Rams get hurt bad by it.

Well, were you on the Rams sidelines? Where do you get your info? The media you criticize so much. So you trust it when it talks good about Kurt, and hate it when it says some bad things about it?

And what do you think the Rams president is gonna say to the Giants one? Oh, yeah, his hand is screwed up, you're wasting your money and your roster slot? No, he's gonna let the Giants take the bait.

[STL FANATIC]

Well, were you on the Rams sidelines? Where do you get your info? The media you criticize so much. So you trust it when it talks good about Kurt, and hate it when it says some bad things about it?

And what do you think the Rams president is gonna say to the Giants one? Oh, yeah, his hand is screwed up, you're wasting your money and your roster slot? No, he's gonna let the Giants take the bait.

I sure wasn't, but a lot of St. Louis reporters were, and they, directly, not from spies, seem to think his hand is fine and that he is a great mentor for Bulger. Do you really believe that just one reporter out of hundreds would have been able to find out about this person hired to keep Kurt away from Marc if it was true?

I trust the majority, and the overwhelming majority says good things about Kurt. These bad things from one "spy" sound like something whipped up to sell issues.

Why would the Rams president need to say anything at all? They released him. Right there ties are cut with Warner, and they don't have to care about what happens to him. But his hand was fine, and they told the Giants that. That, and, I've seen him throw, and if his hand is messed up, it doesn't matter, cuz he throws one heck of a ball still.

[Braden]

Whoah there guys. I guess media interpretation would leave you on different sides of the table. This looks like a good move for the Giants, but don't be surprised if he only sticks around for a year. He's a quality starting QB that will benefit the Giants very well either as QB or mentor to Eli. But Kurt has a lot to prove. He has been injury plagued in the past two years and yes I have hard about a potential personality problems, but I think that might be false.

It wasn't a bad move for the Rams to drop him though IMO. He was making too much money as a backup. The mistake the Rams made was the way Martz handled the QB situation last year, and I think it may cost him his job if the Rams fail to meet expectations this year.

[Phil]

I'll predictably side with STL here.

I haven't heard anything from any of the reliable sources that I use that would say his hand is any less the 'good to go'.

...and I remember six fumbles, but I also remember the fact that he was playing with a concussion, and I don't think anyone remembers any semblance of protection by the offensive line in that game, 'cause there wasn't one.

...and I agree strongly with Braden. The Rams started the string of mistakes a while ago, and now it'll cost them, as they're now paying Kurt a pile of money to play for the Giants.

[STL FANATIC]

Add a lack of balance in the playcalling to a lack of an oline as the reasons fumbles and hits and eventually a concussion could be predicted. 54 passes, 13 runs. That's pathetic.

Braden, he was indeed making to much for a backup. But there's the work, backup. Backup is the mistake. He should have never been the backup.

This is a bad move for the Rams, because we just lost a great QB for a mediocre one.

[See Red]

Regardless --

A. a broken pinkie is an injury that doesn't always heel properly. Warner also has a chronic thumb injury on the same hand.

B. the article clip I posted was taken from Sports Illustrated; so there's no reason not to believe the validity of it. I don't believe a writer for a magazine such as Sports Illustrated would have to make up information.

C. I've seen the problems with Kurt Warner hand mentioned other places such as the NFL shows on ESPN.

D. The Rams would tell the Giants that Kurt Warner is completely healthy because the Giants are expected to be a contender this season, just as they were last season. Wouldn't it suck if they told them Kurt wasn't completely healthy, Giants take some other QB, and end up beating the Rams in the playoffs?

E. Your head doesn't hold the football -- your hand does. I played football with a minor concussion Sophomore year, I played the entire second half of a game and it didn't affect the way i did my job. But when you're a QB -- you have no business playing with a concussion, especially if it's SO severe that you can't hold onto the ball. Don't blame it on the offensive line, everyone on that line is a damn good player -- I guess they just don't look as good when one of Kurt's 5 WR's isn't open on every play like in the old days and Kurt could just fire it out quickly, huh?

F. Bulger is not a mediocre QB -- in fact, Bulger actually won the Rams games. What was the last game that the Rams won under Kurt Warner?

[NJTank]

I disagree with St. LOuis fan but I can understand where he is coming from when he sees Warner he still sees the Super Bowl winning 2-time MVP that brought a winner to the Gateway city. So even if Bulger proves to be a superior QB, there will always be a warm spot for Warner. So if Bulger never makes the Super Bowl that will be a detrament there are many fans like that thats why repalcing a legend is hard.

I never liked Jeff Kent on the Mets because he is who they got for David Cone.

I now cheer against the Rangers because of Glenn Sather, and will do so until he is gone.

[STL FANATIC]

First off n ITE88, let me start by saying, I respect you, and feelings from this thread need not carry over into anything else, but I'm quite touchy on this subject and am becoming royally ticked off as I read your posts.

A. a broken pinkie is an injury that doesn't always heel properly.  Warner also has a chronic thumb injury on the same hand.

And a good throw is a good throw, and Warner has proven since those injuries he can throw. I don't give a crap if people wanna think they're still there, cuz I know he can throw, whether or not they are currently there.

B. the article clip I posted was taken from Sports Illustrated; so there's no reason not to believe the validity of it.  I don't believe a writer for a magazine such as Sports Illustrated would have to make up information.

Even the major magazines pull these stunts sometimes. The hiring of someone to seperate Warner from Bulger is a ludicrous claim. First off, nobody else in the media reports it. Second off, Warner was ALWAYS with Bulger. Third off, Bulger often talks about how great and influence was. There are plenty of reasons not to believe the validity of it.

C. I've seen the problems with Kurt Warner hand mentioned other places such as the NFL shows on ESPN.

A couple of places have mentioned his hand. I'll give you that. But the reason they are concerned about his hand is cuz they wanna know if it affects his throws. I have seen his throws since the injury, and they are great. This possible hand problem is meaningless.

D. The Rams would tell the Giants that Kurt Warner is completely healthy because the Giants are expected to be a contender this season, just as they were last season.  Wouldn't it suck if they told them Kurt wasn't completely healthy, Giants take some other QB, and end up beating the Rams in the playoffs?

Well, I'll give you that that is a possible motive. I don't buy it, but it's possible. Warner however, did pass numerous tests from the Giants before they signed him, and they seem to be quite impressed with his throws in his first practice.

E. Your head doesn't hold the football -- your hand does.  I played football with a minor concussion Sophomore year, I played the entire second half of a game and it didn't affect the way i did my job.  But when you're a QB -- you have no business playing with a concussion, especially if it's SO severe that you can't hold onto the ball.  Don't blame it on the offensive line, everyone on that line is a damn good player  -- I guess they just don't look as good when one of Kurt's 5 WR's isn't open on every play like in the old days and Kurt could just fire it out quickly, huh?

Your head doesn't hold the football, but when you have a concussion, your timing is off and your reactions are slower. He held onto the ball and was not seeing the field as clear. Your right, he has no business playing, and it was Mike Martz's job to take him out. He didn't. That was the first time that O-line had ever played together, and as an O-line, you have to have chemistry. They sucked. Turley played terrible. Pace held out through preseason, and Wolabough was recovering from injury. McCollum just isn't the greatest player. It's ignorant to say the O-line was not a huge factor. It's also ignorant to not admit that Martz's lack of balance in the playcalling gave away a lot. The defense knew what was coming. How do you account for 54 passes and 13 runs, especially when you have Marshall Faulk. That is ridiculous.

F. Bulger is not a mediocre QB -- in fact, Bulger actually won the Rams games.  What was the last game that the Rams won under Kurt Warner?

Bulger didn't win the Rams games at all. He was just on the winning team. He is terribly mediocre. He led the league in INTs with 22, and only threw 22 TDs. That's mediocre. Heck, he personally accounted for more than 1/3 of the Cardinals defense's total INTs. He had 5 of their 13. That's 38.5% of them. His passer rating last year was a mediocre 81.4. He can't throw the long ball worth a darn. I'm pretty sure at one point he actually thought you could skip balls to the reciever. He's unable to see the field and choose a reciever, rather he thinks of a reciever for a play, and forces the ball to that reciever no matter what.

Bulger also can't win in the big games, and struggles on the road. In Detroit last year with a chance to clinch home field advantage, he blows it. Then, in our first playoff game, which I was at and was at home vs. Carolina, he sucks throughout the first half.

(He gets a lot of credit for fourth quarter comebacks; I'm told how he has more than Warner. You know how you get a lot of fourth quarter comebacks? You fall behind a lot after three quarters...)

Finally, in the second half, he starts to play better. I'm warming up to him. Maybe he CAN be good. Suddenly, we are three points down with just under two minutes left, and on the fifteen yard line. This is our game to WIN. Right there in regulation. All of the sudden though, Martz doesn't have confidence in Bulger and thinks he'll throw an INT, so he chooses to do weak runs to run the clock down, and kick the FG to tie. Three plays in 2 minutes. That's ridiculous. We were stunned. Bulger would be lost without Martz, so he followed exactly what Martz said. Warner would have had that ball in the end zone for the victory before Martz could have told him to sit on it. Anyway, so we go into overtime. Eventually, we get a chance to go about 6 more yards to kick the game winning FG. All Martz has to do is give to Faulk a couple of times. Suddenly, he has confidence in Bulger again...what happens? An INT. This time, our defense doesn't step it up on the next possesion, and we lose the game. That was waiting to happen all year, but every time our defense or our special teams, or something else bailed Bulger out. When it didn't, we lost.

I don't dislike Bulger because he is Warner's replacement. I dislike him because he isn't very good. Also, I will never give him full credit regardless of what he accomplishes (and I know that might be unfair--though I don't forsee him accomplishing much), because he didn't earn this job. Kurt Warner never got the chance to keep his job.

For what it's worth, reports out of minicamp a couple of weeks ago were that Bulger looked really meh and still couldn't throw the long ball (so basically, just like his mediocre self), and Chris Chandler looked exceptionally sharp. Chandler for starting QB in '04!

[STL FANATIC]

Oh, and the last game the Rams one while Warner was starting was a game to advance to the Super Bowl. A game Bulger may never find himself in, or doing well in.

Since than, Warner had an off year full of injuries in '02. He returned to form in the '03 preseason before being killed by a non-gelled O-line, terrible playcalling, and a concussion in the first game of the year. In the last game of the year he played great, but was unable to cleanup Bulger's mess.

[See Red]

Well, I must say, I really do enjoy discussing this issue with you STL. You certainly know you're stuff. I'm sorry to tick you off and I too do respect you. So I'm not gonna let you get any more ticked off at me and i'm gonna call it quits with this argument though. I can see your passion for this subject and i can see why it exists, I have similar passions in other aspects of sports -- mainly UConn basketball this season as I had some somewhat heated discussions about that this year. Anyways, not to wander off topic -- sorry if I at any point seemed like an ass. I've never been one to admit that I could possibly be wrong lol. but I hope for the sake of Kurt Warner, and the Giants organization that I am.

[STL FANATIC]

Well, I must say, I really do enjoy discussing this issue with you STL. You certainly know you're stuff. I'm sorry to tick you off and I too do respect you. So I'm not gonna let you get any more ticked off at me and i'm gonna call it quits with this argument though. I can see your passion for this subject and i can see why it exists, I have similar passions in other aspects of sports -- mainly UConn basketball this season as I had some somewhat heated discussions about that this year. Anyways, not to wander off topic -- sorry if I at any point seemed like an ass. I've never been one to admit that I could possibly be wrong lol. but I hope for the sake of Kurt Warner, and the Giants organization that I am.

No sweat. Like I said, I respect you, and your right to have these opinions. This is an opinion I just strongly disagree with, and am not sure I can respect the opinion on it's own.

I don't think we need to stop to prevent me from getting more ticked off, but, it's not a bad idea to stop, because I don't think anything new will be discussed. It's just gonna be the same back and forth.

Anyway, we're cool, and while it ticks me off, sometimes these are the most fun discussions to have. Ones where you are passionate about something that is.