Pittsburgh Rugby Concept - Updated with Final Version

[Robmarty009]

"I'm sure you're not the first person to come up with the name "Hammers" for a team in Pittsburgh. I don't think you have enough evidence to call foul."

Uh.. yes I was. The concept that I developed in late 2012 was 4 months in the making. It was a brand I had built from the ground up. I did non-stop research on Pittsburgh and all the different sports team names they have used (Steelers, Passion, Pirates, Maulers, Penguins, etc.). This is one of the the reasons for which I chose the moniker "Hammers". An obvious nod to the Steel City. Something original that had never been used before.

The fact that anyone would not look at my project and immediately see that this is an open-and-shut case is mind-boggling. Just look at the dates of when both projects were posted. The blatant name rip-off. The colors and design concepts are next but this is pretty obvious.

[hockey week]

I knew it couldn't be the first time it's been used, and I was kinda right.

This sure is interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Sledgehammers

Edit: the original post DID say this was a pre-existing team, hence the similarities. But the name issue stands, it was used well before 2012 in that concept that looks very little like this one.

Also, I like the improvements, and the secondaries are fantastic (I like the left one, the ball not in motion doesnt make as much sense), and it's overall pretty bad ass. Nice kits, too.

[jaha32]

"I'm sure you're not the first person to come up with the name "Hammers" for a team in Pittsburgh. I don't think you have enough evidence to call foul."

Uh.. yes I was. The concept that I developed in late 2012 was 4 months in the making. It was a brand I had built from the ground up. I did non-stop research on Pittsburgh and all the different sports team names they have used (Steelers, Passion, Pirates, Maulers, Penguins, etc.). This is one of the the reasons for which I chose the moniker "Hammers". An obvious nod to the Steel City. Something original that had never been used before.

The fact that anyone would not look at my project and immediately see that this is an open-and-shut case is mind-boggling. Just look at the dates of when both projects were posted. The blatant name rip-off. The colors and design concepts are next but this is pretty obvious.

So you were the guy who decided that all Pittsburgh teams would use black and yellow? You should put that in your signature so everyone who reads your comments knows that.

But seriously, when you wrote that he "ripped off the colors of your Hammers' logo", did you actually think people would take you seriously? The colors? The colors? He ripped off your colors?

I know you are mostly upset about the name being the same as the one that you did. You are not the first person to think that Hammers is a fitting name for a Pittsburgh-based team. Do you have any idea how big the world is? There are numerous people out there who have probably used that name for one thing or another, and just because they didn't post it on this site, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Did you copyright and trademark your little school project? If not, then the name is up for grabs. You have no beef with him. I once made a team called the "Austin Outlaws". I knew it wasn't that original of a name and just using pure logic, I knew it had probably been used plenty of times before. One user on here, geotheo, pointed out to me that two of my concept teams used the same names as teams he had previously made (Tamps Tropics and Austin Outlaws). He didn't get upset at all. Recently, I have been brainstorming ideas for a Pittsburgh basketball team concept (that I may or may not make) and guess what, the name "Hammers" popped into my head because it is so logical for Pittsburgh.

As far as the actual concept looking similar, the OP here's work is nothing like yours. First, his work is much better. I had to click the link you provided just to see what kind of work you were defending and after seeing it, I don't know why you're so passionate about it (I understand even less why you got so much love for feedback but the boards are pretty soft these days). The only thing I can relate to you on is being passionate about one's own work, but your work needs some fine tuning and if you keep practicing, you will look back at your Hammers project and see its amateur quality.

Using your flawed logic, almost every logo that exists would be a rip off of another. Did the Berlin Thunder and Knicks come knocking on your door for stealing their ideas? Did the Sonics and Hawks call you up on your jersey design? Using your logic, these teams should have, but the reality is that you didn't steal their work, you were just influenced by them, which is fine.

Anyway, I think it time you make a third account if you want anything you say in the future to be taken seriously after this. I'm not one to rant usually and I should be focusing on Ramparts' work, but seriously...the colors?

[Rampart]

Wow, this thread has taken on a life of it's own. Here's the deal...the original Pittsburgh Sledgehammers concept was mine. There's a long story about the Pittsburgh Vipers team, the AMNRL and the split that caused the formation of the USARL. As the AMNRL owned the Vipers name and artwork, we changed our name to the Pittsburgh Sledgehammers (this was in December of 2010). We found that such a long name was cumbersome and made for a poor URL (pittsburghsledgehammers.com; it's a lot of typing), so we shortened the name to just "Hammers".

I saw the basketball concept and was quite frankly impressed that someone had the same mindset for a team nickname.

The colors...let's be honest. If we have any chance of connecting to the Pittsburgh market and open up merchandise as a viable revenue stream, then we must use black and gold. Plain and simple. Teams that use any other colors in Pittsburgh don't draw fans or they don't last very long.

Thank you for all of the feedback regarding the identity. There are several people involved in the naming process and I don't know if this will end up as the final identity. Others involved want names like the Pittsburgh Skull Crushers or Pittsburgh Metal Heads. Ugh.

[Rampart]

One other thing. The logo and wordmark are separate entities as the primary logo would be placed on the uniforms, but not the wordmark. My apologies; I should have made that more obvious.

Here's the finished PDF file that was submitted to the board members.:

http://www.dropbox.com/s/hqj54vaxv40c2yz/Pittsburgh%20Rugby%20Identity%20Package%20-%20Hammers.pdf

[Robmarty009]

jaha32,

I understand that using black and yellow is a common Pittsburgh sports team trend. The name was the biggest issue. The colors and design choices certainly didn't help.

Also, as far as you bashing my work, that's unnecessary. If you don't like it, that's fine. I have no issue with your opinion. I happened to receive alot of good feedback from other designers. Even if my work isn't up to par with your glorious 'Manhattan Mobsters' ::chuckle:: But that's not the point. Rampart is a good designer and clearly he knows what he's doing as far as designing goes. The similarities were too hard to ignore.

So please leave this up to me and Rampart, and go on and finish your next 90's era-looking sports logo. Maybe the Vancouver Grizzlies logo can be inspiration for your next one..

[Rampart]

Fine.

Let's get it on.

First; I'm sure that your endless research into Pittsburgh sports showed that Pittsburgh has had many teams with the same names.

Pittsburgh Pirates (Hockey, Baseball, Football)

Pittsburgh Phantoms (Soccer, Roller Hockey, Basketball)

Pittsburgh Hardhats (Softball, Basketball)

And these were REAL teams with real players and not some concept art posted to a message board.

But, okay. You say that you created the "Pittsburgh Hammers" in late 2012.

We won't even delve into West Ham United from the Barclay's Premier League and their storied history, but...

Here's a fantasy Hockey team from August 2012 (Comment #18):

http://hfboards.hock...d.php?t=1251493

Here's a petition started in June 2012 for an MLS team:

http://petitions.mov...eam-to-pittsbur

Here's a Sim baseball league from 2004:

http://forum.simdyna...ction=printable

And a fantasy football team from 2007:

https://www.2ksports...p/t-105343.html

Of course, the "Sledgehammers" name (forerunner to the shortened "Hammers" version) has been around since December of 2010, but here's the USARL constitution from January 29, 2011 at the first league meeting (you'll see the name mentioned a few times and signed on the last page):

http://ww1.prweb.com...nstitution.pdf

My guess is that you ripped off one of these people....or it was just coincidence that you came up with a team name that they were already using.

Here's some advice. Keep working on your art; you have a lot of potential. Not everything is an original idea no matter how much you think that no one has ever thought of it before. If you think that your ideas are original and throw a hissy fit every time someone has a similar idea, you won't last long in the design industry.

[Robmarty009]

Rampart, I ripped NO ONE off. This was a concept borne from weeks of research. I had searched far and wide for a team with this name. The closest one I found was West Ham. As far as "Pittsburgh Hammers", none existed to my knowledge. As a matter of fact, to this day whenever I Google search "Pittsburgh Hammers", it's MY team logo that you see first (along with my behance page promoting the same art). So after doing this multiple times between Novermber and yesterday, why would I assume a team with this name existed already? Now seeing the evidence that you have brought forward, I see similar ideas and I'm glad you brought this to my attention. But like I said, to me, they were just that: ideas. Ideas that no one, other than an avid rugby fan on a rugby message board as you, would even know.

This will most likely be my last thread as obviously tempers have boiled and it seems that this argument will continue to no end. Good luck on your career as I can see alot of potential (way more than jaha32). PS I will be creating another basketball team brand for the San Diego Swashbucklers so please stay away from that name. Thanks!

[Gazzzaf]

Rampart, I ripped NO ONE off. This was a concept borne from weeks of research. I had searched far and wide for a team with this name. The closest one I found was West Ham. As far as "Pittsburgh Hammers", none existed to my knowledge. As a matter of fact, to this day whenever I Google search "Pittsburgh Hammers", it's MY team logo that you see first (along with my behance page promoting the same art). So after doing this multiple times between Novermber and yesterday, why would I assume a team with this name existed already? Now seeing the evidence that you have brought forward, I see similar ideas and I'm glad you brought this to my attention. But like I said, to me, they were just that: ideas. Ideas that no one, other than an avid rugby fan on a rugby message board as you, would even know.

This will most likely be my last thread as obviously tempers have boiled and it seems that this argument will continue to no end. Good luck on your career as I can see alot of potential (way more than jaha32). PS I will be creating another basketball team brand for the San Diego Swashbucklers so please stay away from that name. Thanks!

There's an absolute precedent for the Hammers name as an abbreviation for "Sledgehammers". Your Behance result comes up on the second page of google (for me). If you couldn't find any of the links the Rampart posted in WEEKS of research, why is him not finding yours so unbelievable?

Now seeing the evidence that you have brought forward, I see similar ideas and I'm glad you brought this to my attention. But like I said, to me, they were just that: ideas. Ideas that no one, other than an avid rugby fan on a rugby message board as you, would even know.

Your concept is technically just an idea as well. Just as Rampart's design is just an idea. It just happens to be an idea in more detail compared to coming up with a name on another board.

I really like this by the way. If he came up with something like this you would have a solid argument.

[hockey week]

So who else wants to see a few dozen concepts for San Diego Swashbucklers now? Can the board make this happen?

[Robmarty009]

"I really like this by the way. If he came up with something like this you would have a solid argument."

Thanks Gazzzaf. Much appreciation.

[jaha32]

RobMarty,

You are right that I shouldn't have bashed your work, and my work and style is also still a work in progress. But calling people out for stealing work can be a sensitive issue, especially when you keep insisting and the reasons you state give you no case. I agree with Gazzzaf that your P/hammer logo made in November is solid (if it were included with a primary logo of a similar style). I'd say post the Swashbucklers concept when you finish it.

Now back to the actual design Rampart made. I like the final version best. The way the bottom of the crest flows exactly with the arm and elbow is nice.

[Rampart]

...and the final, final version.

I wanted to merge the wordmark with the logo in a seamless manner, but still have the capability to use the workmark and logo as separate entities.

[Rampart]

Or this one that removes the separation stroke between the wordmark and logo.

I think the hard hat gets sort of lost in all of the black.

[Midway]

Some interesting discussions going on here. I think unless you actually copyright and trademark your logos, you own nothing except your rendition of the idea instead of the idea itself. Everything else is fair game.

[nas1787]

The last version without the separating stroke is the best. Really looks like one cohesive logo, but can still be easily separated. Great job on the whole identity. With any luck the others involved with the club see the hard work and thought that went into this.

[jaha32]

Good call putting the separating strokes behind the entire logo. It makes your logo looks more cohesive and together. If at all possible, the outline/separating strokes should never separate different elements of the logo in my opinion. The logo with just the construction worker and no words is my favorite still.