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Expos to Norfolk?


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In case anyone's interested, here's the link to the Virginian-Pilot's section on the campaign to move the Expos to Norfolk: http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/sports/mlb.html

And check out the ownership group's website at http://www.norfolkmlb.com


OWNER -- Pittsburgh Spiders (UL) * Dynamo Missouri (PLA) * Montreal Maroons (SHL)

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We should have our own board just to talk about the Expos re-location/contraction scenario(s). It seems like a new effort pops up every few days.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

I second the idea, but would also like to propose that the board also be home to all of the Pittsburgh Penguins relocation discussions.

I know it's not going to happen, but I think Las Vegas is the best option for baseball to move the Expos. A major pro team, in any of the four major league sports, will instantly become the primary (see: only) team in the fastest growing city in the United States. The weather's great, the populace is growing, and the town is both exciting for adults and, despite its current ad campaign, trying to appeal to the great number of young families moving into the area. Sure, people will say there's the gambling problem, but since these players will be the only sports stars in their area they'll be highly recognizeable, and thus less likely to get involved in local gambling.




The world's foremost practitioners of professional tag-team wrestling.



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I lost my respect for Norfolk as a relocation candidate after seeing that website. Norfolk is NOT the 18th market and Milwaukee is hardly the smallest MLB market. I know Kansas City and Cincinnati are definetly smaller, and I think Pittsburgh might be as well.

I don't see why they'd feel they had to distort facts (or blatantly lie) to look good when they have plenty in their favor.


Dubya's thoughts on "terrorist" nations: "They never stop thinking of new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

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The Expos are moving??? The Penguins are Bankrupt??? The sky is blue??? lol...

lord I cant wait till they move so I dont have to hear about it anymore... i wish they could stay but the league isnt interested in looking for local ownership... the musical owners switch forcing the league to take over the team was the final nail but for some reason the league is just dragging their feet on this move...

GDB... Brothers from other Mothers


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I checked... According to the 2000 census, the Norfolk area is the 30th largest in the US--indeed, 4 places behind Milwaukee, but larger than Las Vegas, and larger than all the following big-league cities: Columbus, Charlotte, New Orleans, Salt Lake City, Nashville, Raleigh, Buffalo, and Jacksonville.

That's the main crux of the argument for a pro team for Norfolk: the fact that the 29 regions above us on the list have teams, and so many cities below us have teams, so, by their logic, we're therefore deserving of a team. We heard it when George Shinn tried to get us an NHL team, and we're hearing it again now. Never mind that this is a huge military area, so most of the population is transient, and most of them have their own allegiances anyway.

I, for one, am against the move. I think the Expos shoud either stay in Montreal with an ownership devoted to making the franchise succeed, or, failing that, move to a city with a much more viable fanbase than this little neck of the woods. I could get into all the arguments I have against the Norfolk initiative, but my fingers are getting sore... Perhaps later, if any of you are interested.

I dunno... *shrug* I posted this in the first place because I thought some of you might be interested in seeing something like this in action. That's all.


OWNER -- Pittsburgh Spiders (UL) * Dynamo Missouri (PLA) * Montreal Maroons (SHL)

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Milwaukee is hardly the smallest MLB market. I know Kansas City and Cincinnati are definetly smaller, and I think Pittsburgh might be as well.

Actually, if you're looking at the population statistics for Metropolitan Areas, than Milwaukee is the smallest market in Major League Baseball.

Milwaukee is located in the 28th-largest Metropolitan Area amongst Major League Baseball teams. The breakdown is as follows:

1) Mets and Yankees - 21,199,865

2) Dodgers and Angels - 16,373,645

3) Cubs and White Sox - 9,157,540

4) Baltimore - 7,608,070

5) Giants and Athletics - 7,039,362

6) Phillies - 6,188,463

7) Red Sox - 5,819,100

8) Tigers - 5,456,428

9) Rangers - 5,221,801

10) Astros - 4,669,571

11) Blue Jays - 4,623,000

12) Braves - 4,112,198

13) Marlins - 3,876,380

14) Mariners - 3,554,760

15) Expos - 3,426,000

16) Diamondbacks - 3,251,876

17) Twins - 2,968,806

18) Indians - 2,945,831

19) Padres - 2,813,833

20) Cardinals - 2,603,607

21) Rockies - 2,581,506

22) Devil Rays - 2,395,997

23) Pirates - 2,358,695

24) Reds - 1,979,202

25) Royals - 1,776,062

26) Brewers - 1,689,572

Incidentally, should the Norfolk area succeed in its bid for the Expos, it would become MLB's smallest Metropolitan Area with 1,569,541 residents.

That still wouldn't explain the Norfolk Baseball Company's claim that the Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News area ranks 18th in market size... unless you were to realize that their website is referring to television market size. Further, rather than specifically referencing the Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News television market, the Norfolk Baseball Company website references the television market of "Southeast Virginia". This would include the 693,660 television households in the Norfolk-Virginia Beach- Newport News Nielsen designated area, as well as the 512,310 television households in the Richmond-Petersburg Nielsen designated area.

So... should Norfolk Baseball Company's bid for the Expos be successful, the combined 1,205,970 television households would, in fact, rank the Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News-Richmond-Petersburg corridor (which the proposed Norfolk team plans to market itself to through a regional sports network that they already have plans to put in place) as the 18th-largest US television market with a Major League Baseball team. Those television households would place the region ahead of such other current markets as Pittsburgh (1,175,410), Baltimore (1,083,030), San Diego (1,029,210), Kansas City (855,090), Cincinnati (877,330) and Milwaukee (871,490).

A distortion of the facts? More like a massaging of the data. However, I wouldn't go so far as to label it a "blatant lie". The bid group is simply trying to put its best foot forward, and given that marketing the team to the entire Southeast Virginia region has always been a part of their plan, I don't think that the bid team is doing anything illegitimate here.

Brian in Boston

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They're also considering a good portion of northeastern North Carolina, from Cape Hatteras on the coast westward to around Raleigh. They're trying to thatch together a suitable market out of three separate regions, all with their own identities and biases. That's a recipe for trouble.

Another strike against the Norfolk bid: the Governor has thrown his support behind the Northern Virginia proposal. Makes sense, really, considering that's the rich end of the state... the Commonwealth knows which side of their bread is buttered.

The whole thing is destined for failure, which is a shame, really, because the two guys in charge have put so much work into this deal. If they do manage to pull it off, I'll definitely go... but probably only when my Buccos come to town.


OWNER -- Pittsburgh Spiders (UL) * Dynamo Missouri (PLA) * Montreal Maroons (SHL)

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