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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. Thanks! That's a bit of what I was going for here. I even thought about designing a "Mr. Gotham" to go with the design, but I ruled it out. Anyway, here's a little rejigging of the outlining/keylining (thanks @MJD7 and @NicDB). NEW YORK GOTHAMS, PART II-B - Metropolitan Madness My original plan was to use royal/blue, for an exceptionally Mets-like identity (which had precedent for the baseball Giants). Here is the concept in that proposed color scheme. I've also done two versions based around the Mets' template (pinstripes at home, placket on road). This can also be my "What if the Mets chose the other old nickname of the Giants?" concept. Finally, here's my Giants' "New York" wordmark on my Mets concept. Why I love the Tuscan on an arc, the modified arched Giants/Pirates font looks fantastic. C+C is appreciated, as always! The Giants of Minneapolis, Minnesota (part of the Twin Cities) will be up soon!
  2. I'd be all for team going full-on red with both their home and road sets. Sure, it makes them look a bit like the Reds and Angels, but it'd set them apart from the rest of the AL Central and really help them establish an identity beyond EDITS - by Mod. The font differences, navy cap logo, and a navy-heavy red alternate (navy has too many playoff losses) alone would be enough differentiation from the Anaheim team. Better to look too much like one team that look too much like several other teams. They could even add light blue as an accent color, for more differentiation.
  3. Thanks, guys! Here's an update of the Giants with the white outline on the logo (thanks, @NicDB, the wordmark no longer gets lost in the stitching or blends with the bridge): Here are the Gothams without the white outline on the script in black (which, BTW, looks a lot cleaner - thanks @coco1997 - no outline works here because there are fewer competing elements in the logo). A few more variants will come soon!
  4. Guilt by association, as they didn't kick him off the team once the news came out. By saying and doing nothing, the other players were complicit.
  5. Thanks, guys! Thanks! I figured that the font and colors gave them a very "vintage New York" feeling. While pinstripes won't figure into the alternate take (I'm not a big fan of them for the Giants/Gothams - especially when black/orange really didn't overlap with pinstripes that much), they'll figure into a mini-alternate take after I get the first one out of the way. Thanks! That dive-in process was the only way I completed Roosevelt's Lost Alliances and Kill Anything that Moves. I can see where you're coming from on the script, but the full "Philadelphia" wouldn't really work. I was unsure about the all-caps, but I think it works really well! Thanks! I figured that the baseball and football Giants would still keep their names, maybe even sharing in the Meadowlands stadium complex (Arrowhead style), building a multipurpose stadium together (sorry, Jets), or the Maras buying the baseball team (Sporting New York Giants?). Thanks, guys! I totally get the Muir Woods justification for the name. I've mocked up the logo with a white outline, which I find myself rather liking! I also tried out white outlined in orange on an earlier iteration (better fitting the team's colorway), but I really didn't like it. I'll get the full update up after the alternate take/its variants are done. NEW YORK GOTHAMS, PT. II - Test Your Met-tle The Mets have one of my favorite identities in all of Big Four sports. The colors and the history behind them, the logo set, and the uniforms are all fantastic to me. It kind of bummed me out knowing that the Mets would never have come into being if the Giants, Dodgers, or both stayed within the New York Metro. However, the Giants' history provided me a way to "Met" them up. The team's original nickname was "Gothams," which stuck around from 1883-84. Owner/manager Jim Mutrie apparently renamed the team "Giants" following a victory against the Phillies in 1885, which has stuck around since (inspiring the name of a certain American Football team). However, what if Mutrie never gave them the name, and "Gothams" stuck around? I kept black/orange, since the Dodgers' existence would preclude the team using royal (even with orange). The first big part of this concept was to incorporate the Giants' vintage cursive script into the Mets' script style. I tried placing it in the Mets' roundel, but it looked too small/awkward. I also opted to fuse the Gotto New York skyline with a home plate design, making for a better backing shape. The tertiary logo remains from my first concept. The home/road set features a set of dual striping on the sleeves and the qui-stripe pattern from my Mets alternate take. The home script features the "G" from the vintage "Giants" script, while the road script is my modded 1987 Mets design. The primary logo is on the sleeves. I figured that the script designs fit together and brought an appropriately Mets-ish touch to the design, without going full Mets. The alternates feature a black jersey with the home script and an update of an old Mets alt I made. The 1916-style windowpanes are a fantastic look. The tertiary is on the sleeve and the cap has a creme crown. The dugout jacket is a modded version of my Mets jacket, with the primary logo swapped on the sleeve. It's a nice way to bring some Met-like qualities into the Giants identity. Also, since "San Francisco Gothams" just sounds weird, let's just say the team would "Seal the Deal" upon moving. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, a few variants on this guy!
  6. I can. It’s got crummy linework in the teeth and ears, the feather is poorly-rendered, and the pupils look off. It’s ugly for both aesthetic and moral reasons.
  7. That is a taint that won’t come off of the team, what should always precede mentioning this title.
  8. I still hold that floating stripes are ugly, except as basketball trim. I wish Florida would commit to the blue/white/blue on orange, o/b/w/b/w on blue, and o/w/b/w/o on white. It’s more colorful and just more impactful.
  9. NEW YORK (BASEBALL) GIANTS, PT. 1 - Gotto Makes a Giant Contribution Ah yes, it's time to do my favorite team in the previous incarnation! When trying to assess why the Giants left New York City, one can point to a variety of factors. These factors included, but were not limited to: 1. The poor condition of the Polo Grounds, due to a lack of funds (the team and stadium rentals were Horace Stoneham's only asset) and hasty construction of the building. 2. Changes in transportation necessitated the need for larger parking lots. Unfortunately for the Giants, much of the land was taken up by Robert Moses' (I have yet to read Power Broker, which I'm hoping to rectify soon) housing projects and other plans. Moses eventually planned to tear down the Polo Grounds in 1962 (one the Giants' lease was up), with speculation about moving them into Yankee Stadium (the Flushing Meadows site wasn't in the works just yet).1 3. The team spent the post-WWII period in a bit of a freefall, with many poor finishes throughout the time (aside from the 1951 pennant and 1954 World Series). 4 (and the biggest one, IMHO). Demographic changes in Harlem, the Polo Grounds' Manhattan neighborhood, ensured that the Giants would not be viable in the long run. The Depression and World War II had a marked impact on the area, with many wealthy white residents leaving the area (for both economic and racist reasons - "White Flight"). Due to the increasingly poor conditions of the neighborhood (due to neglect from government programs and a lack of legitimate employment options for many of the African-American and Latin American residents), crime increased.2 With fewer local fans having disposable income for games or a willingness to walk within the "sketchy" area (one created by both racism and apathy), attendance declined. This is the factor that drove the other ones (renovations, transport, competition, etc.). Stoneham believed that fans would feel safer if they could drive from the suburbs to the stadium, but the lack of parking prevented that. TL;DR: This .gif, but with Son Goku as socio-economic/competitive factors and Frieza as the New York Baseball Giants. However, what if the move didn't go through? What if the team became the Yankees' tenants or found a way to build a Manhattan stadium, set up shop at Flushing Meadows (in the unlikely event that the Dodgers stayed in Brooklyn), or pre-empted the Football Giants by heading to New Jersey? What would these baseball Giants look like? When setting out on this project, I figured that the baseball Giants would not look all that different from the current San Francisco squad. I tried to approach their New York incarnation from the same angle as the team's 2000 redesign, tastefully updating the 1950s/60s uniform set. However, I wanted to incorporate a bit of the Mets' fantastic identity into the design (outside of the "NY," sourced from my previous Mets concept). So, I reasoned that the baseball Giants would want a new primary logo to celebrate a "revival" of sorts, one designed by a very certain Ray Gotto. The new primary is pretty much be the same as the Mets' classic logo, albeit with the Brooklyn elements obscured (e.g., the Williamsburgh Savings Bank Building no longer features, done by using the post-digitization version of the logo) and the bridge being a general suspension bridge (maybe the George Washington Bridge?). The Giants' one-color wordmark is at the center. The tertiary minimizes the primary to a smaller design, with both the cap insignia and the 1883 establishment date. The wordmark font is Ocean Beach Major with modifications, as it's a fantastic modernization of the Giants/Pirates' font style. The uniforms are pretty much the same as my San Francisco Giants concept, but with some notable differences. The number font and the NOB's/white-base home uniforms are off of my Seals/retro Giants concept, while the new primary logo resides on the sleeves. I kept arched wordmarks, as the logo implied that the Giants are named after the giant skyscrapers of the city. Arching does a better job of invoking that compared to arc-ed wordmarks (which work in San Francisco, with the Giants referring to the "giant" bridges of the city - my flimsy rationalization of the name). The alternates bear a great similarity to my old Giants concept as well, with an orange-billed cap paired with an orange top and a black alternate that has the cap logo as an insignia. The second set of alternates pairs the orange-billed cap with the home uniform and contains the throwback to 1933 from my previous concept (featuring @Gothamite's preferred "NY"). It's "different enough" from the current set that it'd work. The dugout jacket is an update of my SF Giants jacket, albeit with the new primary logo and the "NY" on the back. I just love that vintage cursive script. It's a pretty simple concept, emulating the Giants' 2000 redesign while incorporating a few Mets-like elements. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, let's take that Mets influence a little further. 1Robert F. Garratt, Home Team: The Turbulent History of the San Francisco Giants (Lincoln: U of Nebraska Press, 2017), 3-9; Stew Thornley, “Polo Grounds (New York) | Society for American Baseball Research,” Society for American Baseball Research, accessed June 27, 2018, https://sabr.org/bioproj/park/58d80eca. 2 Michael Javen Fortner, Black Silent Majority: The Rockefeller Drug Laws and the Politics of Punishment (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2015), 24-27; Federico Ribes Tovar, Lolita Lebrón, la prisionera (New York: Plus Ultra Educational Publishers, 1974), 93.
  10. Thanks! That sounded like a good idea, so I went with it! I think it turned out a tad better. I'm still not the biggest fan of it, but the mini-tail improved the look. I'll be coming at the Bloomington move through a few names, with "Minneapolis," "Twin Cities," and "Minnesota" options. Thanks! The "Phila" script was a bit of pain to get right, due to incorporating the "P" into the cursive script. I'm surprised that gold front numbers aren't in more A's concepts, given how they really complement the look of the cap and de-necessitate the road hat. Thanks! I was debating whether or not to make the Sunday uniform the home design, but I decided against it for being too "Tigers-like" (Old English insignia at home, cursive script on road). You are right in that the "Phila" script is fantastic on both alts, even though I prefer the "A" for tradition's sake. Thanks! I agree with your assessment on the front number and striping, hence this mini-update with a new striping design based on the dugout jacket and a yellow-gold front number. I also improved the accuracy of the 1929-30 alternate because, as other board members have attested to, the Mothership can get woefully inaccurate with some teams. This is especially the case when it comes to vintage baseball, where @CC97 will sometimes use out-of-date Cooperstown Collection files (like the Philly A's), inaccurate colorways ('69-'70 White Sox didn't have powder road uniforms), or poor-quality recreations (that whole Phillies page). I don't want to knock Chris, as it is an amazing free research database, but I do wish the site was more accurate and had more thorough updates. The Giants should be up soon!
  11. Fun fact, the only black was the armbands. The main dark color was navy.
  12. Cuba: It’s a fantastic update of a classy look. Not much to say, other than good work! Czech Republic: I really like the thinking behind this one. The fonts work well as a unifying element for the different color styles.
  13. Thanks! I can totally see where you're coming from with that one. I've got to make the New York, Minnesota, Toronto, San Jose, and Tampa Bay Giants! I really wanted the elephant to take center stage, seeing as how it's so important to the team's identity. Thank you! Playing with the road script does produce some good looks, which included angled "Phila," "Philadelphia," and "PhilA" wordmarks, along with a 1968 A's-style "PHILA" design. Thanks, guys! This one was a fun concept. Thanks, guys! I wanted something that had a "century look" feeling, a classic that has basically been the same for decades (with some tweaks along the way). That was my reasoning behind the concept. I assumed that the A's sticking around would necessitate the Phillies leaving. The A's didn't have a guy like Bob Carpenter who could improve the farm/scouting system's status, nor did they have the Carpenter family's cash. The Great Depression hit the A's hard, and the Mack family didn't have the necessary assets/investments to turn things around or sell the team. The Carpenters (working with the A's for a bit) might have bailed them out had they not bought the Phillies (who would either fold or go to another owner that wouldn't turn things around like the Carpenters).1 At the end of the day, the A's moved because the organization went to crap right as the Phillies got their crap together. Anyway, it's alternate take time! PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS, PT. II - The Finnleyman Cometh For this alternate take, let's say that the A's stuck around in Philadelphia under new ownership after 1954. Instead of selling to the Yankee Toadie (Arnold Johnson) and moving to Kansas City, local Philadelphia investors bought the team (e.g., Harry Sylk).2 The team has roughly the same visual history as the Kansas City Athletics, with new ownership trying to put their stamp on the team. However, a very certain gentleman/crazy dude would come into the picture. Charlie O. Finley buys the team in the early 1960s and begins transforming them in his image. Navy and red give way to Kelly Green and Yellow, with white cleats and bright bold colors. His abilities net the team three World Series titles in the 1970s, bringing the team their first sustained period of success since 1929-31. While he eventually sells the team due to problems (being a bit of dick to players and pissing off the AL owners), green and yellow stick around. New ownership in the 1980s, much like Walter A. Haas Jr. in our timeline, decides to tweak Charlie O's colors by darkening the green to a Hunter/Forest-like shade. While the scripts made a controversial return in the late-'80s/early-'90s or so, the winning that followed their reintroduction endeared them to the fans (again, much like what happened in Oakland). Basically, this concept is my attempt to adjust the Oakland look to fit with Philadelphia. I tweaked the dark green shade to 3305 C instead of 3537 C, as the former had a bit more blue in it. The logos use the Futura font of the current team (albeit a different weight), alongside the 1993-94 elephant. I rather like that logo and I thought that a later redesign would incorporate something like that. It's placed in a keystone with the founding date, city name, and the "A" insignia (assuming that the "apostrophe s" addition would go away during the '80s). The elephant is white because John McGraw didn't call the team a "green/blue/grey/pink elephant." The uniforms are a mix of my Philadelphia A's concept above (jersey/pants striping) and my Oakland A's work (scripts, sock striping is Oaks-like, cap design, white cleats). The big modification from both of those is the introduction of yellow front numbers with a gold outline. I thought it added a nice bit of contrast/was further justification for wearing the gold-billed cap on the road (because it looks so damn good - the A's should NEVER wear a road cap). The new elephant is on the sleeve, while a "Phila" script is on the road uniform ("Philadelphia" would be too long and "Phila" is a legal abbreviation of the name, something the Warriors/Sixers have long done). The first set of alternates are colored tops with the "A" insignia. The yellow one is pretty self-explanatory, while the green one features an alternate cap with the "P" insignia and the keystone logo on the sleeve. The addition of the Philadelphia signifiers makes it a better road alt. The next two alternates are homages to the team's past. The first is a uniform that tributes the team's classic template, albeit in Forest Green/Athletic Gold. I figured there would be enough fan demand for it, so the team would introduce it (a la the Mets' snow-white set/the Giants' "SF" roadies ). The other one is a 1929-31 alt, to homage the pre-Charlie O identity. I added the current elephant logo, as it felt appropriate for the design (with the proper, not "period-correct-ish, "A" logo on the Mothership). I used the previously-linked image and this one to recreate the 1930s "A" designs. The dugout jackets use a similar template to my previous concept, with the first one doing a bit of a color swap. This jacket also features the home script, cap logo, and primary mark. The throwback has the elephant on the placket, with a new "19 A 01" insignia. The Charlie O touch certainly makes the Philadelphia Athletics stand out more among the "Old Boys Club" of the original eight AL clubs. While it separates the team a bit from the exploits of Foxx and Grove, it more than makes up for it by honoring the victories of the Swingin' A's and the LaRussa squads! C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, it's time for the New York Giants (who, along with the A's, will appear a lot in this series)! 1 Robert D. Warrington, “Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia | Society for American Baseball Research,” Society for American Baseball Research, accessed June 25, 2018, https://sabr.org/research/departure-without-dignity-athletics-leave-philadelphia. 2 Ibid.
  14. I flip-flop between brown/powder blue and brown/turquoise/metallic gold for them. I do kind of like them to have a bit of an Ancient Egypt (as filtered through a sports team) vibe. This new tweak just looks muddy on the primary. The alternate is decent enough, while the new font is an upgrade. It’s still uninspired, and doesn’t bring much to a somewhat overused color scheme/very average logo set.
  15. For me, it's the combination of the deer and the colors that gives off the Christmas vibe. I still really like it, especially for the Bucks. Kelly green and red should never touch in a design. With white between them, the colors are fantastic: When they touch, it just looks muddy as the colors compete for attention.
  16. Or people like an inventive look that incorporates local flair and is memorable compared to the current identity.
  17. The board was showing me a “banned” message when I was trying to browse with mobile data. I wonder what was up with that.
  18. Well, congrats on trying something new? I like what they're trying to do with the crest and the design, but I'm not sure the execution is working for me. I'll have to wait for game pictures to get a better grasp of it. It beats Red Wings cosplay, I'll tell you that.
  19. I agree. I like the font choices and striping pattern. The sock stripes are an inspired choice, but I do wish the pants were a bit more Vikings-like (to get the whole flag pattern).
  20. PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS, PT. I - Mack Quits While He’s Ahead EDIT (5/27/2019): I have done a large update of the design, here is the link. When observing baseball history, one may wonder why the Athletics left Philadelphia when they were historically more successful than the Phillies. Here is an excellent article by Robert D. Warrington from SABR that sums it up, but for those of you who want the short version, here it is: That is the best summary of the A’s existence from the 1930s-1954. Family squabbles within the Mack and Shibe families, cheap ownership (the A’s were the Mack family’s only asset, compared to the Phillies being only one part of Robert Carpenter’s commercial empire), and poor play under the leadership of an increasingly-senile Connie Mack lead to the A’s falling behind to the Phillies. They were in a poor enough position that the AL owners approved of their sale to the Yankee Toadie and move to Kansas City. However, what if Connie Mack quit while he was ahead? What if he sold the team to Philadelphia investors (maybe Bob Carpenter) during the ‘30s or ‘40s, allowing the team to remain in Philadelphia? I figured that with the team staying in Philadelphia and Charlie O. Finley not buying the team, they would stick to blue as their main color. I chose a blue that was a split between royal and navy (both worn by the team - scroll and you'll see), namely 281 C (used by the 1970s Dallas Cowboys). I added yellow gold as an accent color to reference the city’s Swedish heritage/flag, the A’s and Phillies' experiments with that color scheme (see the previous link), and to differentiate the team from the Tigers (my biggest problem with the A’s old design - too close for comfort). The modern elephant logo (which I’m sure the team would have developed eventually) resides in a keystone for the primary, with the wordmarks within and below it. The secondary is the Old English A, which is modified from my Project 32 “A’s” insignia. The wordmark uses a simplified Old English font, for better reproduction at small sizes. The uniforms borrow the striping style from the 1950 golden jubilee uniforms while incorporating a yellow-gold double stripe on the socks. The full-bodied elephant is on the sleeve. The road uniform uses an Old English P, modified from the logo of the Stockton Ports (an A’s affiliate ). I figured that the A’s would have made more of an effort to acknowledge their city, especially if the Phillies moved away. The alternates are pretty straightforward. The first is a yellow-gold jersey with the full “Athletics” wordmark with an underline, as the team would not have experimented with cursive scripts (1954 doesn’t count, as the team had one foot out the door by that point). The second is a blue top featuring a “P” cap in the style of the modern A’s. It also features the primary, for more city name promotion. The dugout jacket is pretty standard fare, with the team name spelled out (like the Yankees’ dugout jacket) and the primary on the sleeve. Designing an A’s concept without any Charlie O. touches was pretty fun. They have modern touches, yet are clearly descendants of the teams led by Jimmie Foxx, Al Simmons, Mickey Cochrane, Lefty Grove, Chief Bender, Frank “Home Run” Baker, and the two Eddies (Collins and Plank). C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, a few Charlie O. touches come our way!
  21. Thanks, guys! @coco1997, I'm glad you like the navy scripts and the reshuffled cap logos. I think it strikes a better balance between the Orioles and AA Brewers (more towards Brewers with a few Oriole touches). Here's the full update: EDIT (11/9/2019): I've updated Owgust, per @Gothamite's suggestions. Here are the previous updates: Logo Sheet, Home and Road, Alternates, Special Events Alternates, and the first dugout jacket (second one added later). It's a bit more Brewer-y and less of an Orioles copy. Besides, the powder uniform now looks like the 1970-71 powder blues worn by the modern team, which I like. The A's should be up in a few.
  22. It may seem bad, but it is an absolute blessing in disguise. He can't blow games while on the DL and his raging dickery won't get the team in trouble anymore. F*** Hunter Strickland.
  23. Thanks for the C+C, guys! Thanks! I figured that since Fred Miller was in the Cardinals discussion, he should probably be in the Browns-Brewers one as well. I didn't know that about Blatz, so that's good to learn about it. Thanks. I'm going to keep that in mind for my Milwaukee Braves alternate take. Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the yellow scripts and numbers. I had to take the yellow down from 1235 C to 123 C, for less saturation. Still, the uniforms look good with the switched around colors and cap logo: Thanks! Here is the Special Event uniform with full powder blue, which looked really good! I still like the "deep" powder more, but the full-bodied light powder is a fantastic look. Thanks, guys! This was a really fun concept to put together. Thanks, guys! I've not been to Safe House yet, nor have I visited Roman Coin. I'll get around to it eventually, once I try to head to a few other Milwaukee haunts (e.g., Conejitos, Emperor of China, etc.). I do frequently shop at Glorioso's and the Public Market, so there's that. Thanks! I'm glad you like the incorporation of powder blue into the set and the different alternates/roundel. I get where you're coming from with the full-body Owgust, given the angle on the legs and the motion lines. I may have overcorrected from the old Owgust (legs too long and diagonal), and the motion lines are a bit of an acquired taste. Still, I'm happy with it. Thanks, guys! I tried to get the best blend of the Borchert Field Owgust logos and the 1970-77 one. I wanted to correct the awkward angle on the one from the 1970s while also giving him a much-needed cleanup with details from the 1940s. In that spirit, I've revised my Project 32 concept to include the new guy along with some dashes of powder and script tweaks (I lowered the tail). Edit 11/8/2019: I updated Owgust, per @Gothamite's recommendation. Here are the originals: Logo Sheet, Home and Road, Alternates, Heritage Uniforms, and Dugout Jacket. I think the two go pretty well together. The A's shall be up today!
  24. China: This one turned out really well! I like the second road uniform more than the first and the B&W alternate is better than the original. Chinese Taipei: I really like the striping pattern and the red alternate. Good work!