BBTV

Actually, that has less than nothing to do with the topic here. I think that many people who choose to download music illegally at least recognize that they are committing a crime and that it's wrong, they just choose to do it anyway. That doesn't make it right, but at least (IMO) most of these people do understand right from wrong in this case and choose to do wrong. In the case of counterfeit jerseys, many of you idiots really don't understand why it's wrong and illegal, and that it can hurt someone. Some of you are actually making the point that it's right to do it. I couldn't really care less if someone knows the situation and then still chooses to do something wrong (and deals with the consequences if caught... though there aren't many legal consequences to buying a fake jersey) but it does bother me that there exist people who simply don't get that it is wrong, it is stealing, and it is illegal. Plus it's dumb to come on a board that is frequented by companies who actually produce some of the designs that are being stolen. But considering that these days 80% of this board is either 10-year-old kids, people who come here just to talk about how great Jesus is, or just general idiots, I'm not surprised by the lack of common sense. I read his post, and it didn't address my double standard concerns. It's simple. There is no double standard, and the only concern you should have is whether or not you're going to be able to get a job and support yourself or if your low intelligence level will require you to have constant care even as an adult. I don't mean to pile on here or "chest thump", but seriously - after reading your post, I really don't think that you're equipped to participate in this discussion. I guess the concern in the example here is whether you're going to spend $20 or $100 on a football jersey while feeding your family and hoping you keep your job. No, I understand completely. It's you that I'm concerned with. And with your obvious strong feelings towards knock off jerseys and your willingness to try and use belittlement tactics while arguing your point, I would wonder who, in fact, has the higher intelligence level here. That said, I'm respectfully leaving this forum. No need for you to respond. If you're worried about feeding your family and hoping you keep your job, then if you even spend $20 on a football jersey you should be locked up and have your kids taken away from you because you clearly do not possess the judgment necessary to be a successful parent. I do not use belittlement tactics while arguing my point. I argue my point, and then use belittlement tactics to attack and humiliate my fallen opponents. It's kind of like driving methodically down the field, punching it in the end zone, then flipping off your helmet and dancing all over your opponents logo in the end zone. If this was a role-playing exercise, you would be playing the role of the logo.

Actually, that has less than nothing to do with the topic here. I think that many people who choose to download music illegally at least recognize that they are committing a crime and that it's wrong, they just choose to do it anyway. That doesn't make it right, but at least (IMO) most of these people do understand right from wrong in this case and choose to do wrong. In the case of counterfeit jerseys, many of you idiots really don't understand why it's wrong and illegal, and that it can hurt someone. Some of you are actually making the point that it's right to do it. I couldn't really care less if someone knows the situation and then still chooses to do something wrong (and deals with the consequences if caught... though there aren't many legal consequences to buying a fake jersey) but it does bother me that there exist people who simply don't get that it is wrong, it is stealing, and it is illegal. Plus it's dumb to come on a board that is frequented by companies who actually produce some of the designs that are being stolen. But considering that these days 80% of this board is either 10-year-old kids, people who come here just to talk about how great Jesus is, or just general idiots, I'm not surprised by the lack of common sense. I read his post, and it didn't address my double standard concerns. It's simple. There is no double standard, and the only concern you should have is whether or not you're going to be able to get a job and support yourself or if your low intelligence level will require you to have constant care even as an adult. I don't mean to pile on here or "chest thump", but seriously - after reading your post, I really don't think that you're equipped to participate in this discussion.

Actually, that has less than nothing to do with the topic here. I think that many people who choose to download music illegally at least recognize that they are committing a crime and that it's wrong, they just choose to do it anyway. That doesn't make it right, but at least (IMO) most of these people do understand right from wrong in this case and choose to do wrong. In the case of counterfeit jerseys, many of you idiots really don't understand why it's wrong and illegal, and that it can hurt someone. Some of you are actually making the point that it's right to do it. I couldn't really care less if someone knows the situation and then still chooses to do something wrong (and deals with the consequences if caught... though there aren't many legal consequences to buying a fake jersey) but it does bother me that there exist people who simply don't get that it is wrong, it is stealing, and it is illegal. Plus it's dumb to come on a board that is frequented by companies who actually produce some of the designs that are being stolen. But considering that these days 80% of this board is either 10-year-old kids, people who come here just to talk about how great Jesus is, or just general idiots, I'm not surprised by the lack of common sense.

To be honest, no you didn't. I just don't see any point of debating it anymore, so instead of being like the douchebags here who have to announce that they're dropping something (and then follow that up with something like "before it gets ugly!"), I just kind of went away. If you'd like, we could start from scratch, maybe in a new topic where there isn't 13 posts of pictures of fake jerseys in between each of our points.

It's overlooked because it's irrelevant. Also, I just skimmed the last few pages so I may have missed this, but was there an good argument made on the side of the NFL being a monopoly? If so, could it be repeated, because I have no idea how this could be the case (even if there's some kind of anti-trust exemption in play.) I don't see how a product manufacturer doesn't have exclusive rights to their product, and the NFL is in effect one single manufacturer. If you want to make the argument that the 32 teams should be split up into more independent entities, then that's one thing, but either way, I fail to see any way to argue that the NFL is a monopoly.

In addition to the obvious problems, does the jersey on the right show a "5" on the sleeve? WTF! Yeah, but if you really, really want a jersey but can't afford one. If you look at the "2" on the back, it looks like an upside-down and backwards "5". I think they just sewed the sleeve's "2" on upside-down and backwards. Hilarious. The 2 is slightly incorrect, but it is not even close to an upside-down 5.

In addition to the obvious problems, does the jersey on the right show a "5" on the sleeve? WTF!

One would be branded a Nazi for removing a derogatory label? I'm not sure that any intelligent fan would do that, regardless of their allegiance or appreciation for the history of the club as the Redskins.

I am not rude, I just cannot have discussions with people who are incapable of making well-thought-out rational points. We are not discussing "extra" jerseys that the plant in China decides to sell on the side, though I'd wager that the production contracts specifically say not to do that. We're talking about whether it's right or wrong to steal someone else's design and sell it for yourself. If you don't see the problem with that, especially being a member of a forum like this, then really there's no sense reading any more of the nonsense that you type. I'm not even saying "don't do it". I'm just saying that if you don't understand that it's wrong, then there's just no point. This is not a matter of opinion. Your argument is the same as trying to convince people that 2 + 2 = 5. It's 4. Fcuking 4.

Then quite frankly, you are one of the dumber people on this site. Most people who purchase these things know why it's wrong, they just choose for whatever reason to do it anyway. If you really don't see what the problem is here, then I really hope you sterilize yourself so that you don't pollute our gene pool by making dumb babies. your comment is somewhat pointless. I have a real Mitchell N Ness. I just cut out the middle man. If it were crap, I would tell you so. Your comment is completely pointless, as I made no reference to nor am I interested in your "Mitchell N Ness"[sic].

Then quite frankly, you are one of the dumber people on this site. Most people who purchase these things know why it's wrong, they just choose for whatever reason to do it anyway. If you really don't see what the problem is here, then I really hope you sterilize yourself so that you don't pollute our gene pool by making dumb babies.

You mean getting dentists and jobs?

When you guys name what cities your expansion teams would be from, do you actually think about what requirements there are for a top-level team to be successful in a market, or do you just look for cities that have teams in other sports and decide that they should have teams in whatever sport you're reel lining? If anything, sports need contraction. If a top-level league was starting out today, many cities that have teams (because they've had them forever) wouldn't even be considered. Would the NFL really expand to Indianapolis? Buffalo? I'll even say Pittsburgh? Would MLB expand to... well, half of its cities? If you take away the cost certainty and playing field that a salary cap and revenue sharing allow for, many teams in the NFL might actually have folded or moved by now, and we'd be left with an accurate representation of what the top-level-sports markets are.

Ray Rhodes was coach of the year in 1995 in his first year with the Eagles. He also delivered a pregame speech where he said to envision the opponent breaking into your house, robbing you, then sodomizing your wife and kids (and possibly pets or horses or something). No lie.

I had totally forgotten about both of those... of course I refused to acknowledge him as a Cowboys player... it was another guy with the same name that just happened to look like him.

Then you would break up a multitude of 50-year-old rivalries in a league where travel problems are nonexistent. I don't think travel problems are non-existent, given what happened during the blizzard this year. An East-West alignment with the conferences intact would make the most sense to me, while still maintaining traditional rivalries as much as possible. Like, keep Dallas in the NFC, but stick them in the South or West, and just schedule them to meet the Giants, Eagles and Skins every year as in-conference rivals. As well, if every team wants to see every other team at some point, they will have to travel coast-to-coast, so it's going to happen regardless of how divisions are aligned. (Wow, did I just kick myself on that one?) I believe the "travel problems" he is referring to are the ones that teams in other sports face, where it would be unrealistic to play a game in NY on Tuesday and then a game in LA on Wednesday. In the NFL, you get several days to go home (or stay home), get your practice in, then go fly somewhere to play. The East/West thing would do nothing to prevent travel issues due to "acts of god / fictitious overlord". As for the other reason why the East/West thing wouldn't work, the whole reason for the current AFC/NFC alignment is so the league can sell packages to multiple networks. Think FOX would want the "Western" package, when NY(x2), Chicago, Philadelphia, and Washington are in the East? They'd have to totally change the way they sell these things, which could create some issues. You'd have "network conferences" to go along with the actual "football conferences".

I'd wager that many more people wear football jerseys than baseball jerseys - far more - so there may not be much incentive to counterfeit.

This I actually kinda like a little bit sort of. I like the intimacy that 4-team divisions provide for (it allows you to channel your "hate" toward three teams, so they each get a lot of it, rather than dividing your hate between 7) but I don't like that there are only 6 division games, and you could win your division without winning a single division game. I've thought about if there could actually be three division games per team under the current format, but if the sched expands to 18 games, that's still only 50% of your games being in the division. I like that this makes for around 75% of your schedule within the division. Wild cards could be a problem, as there are no intra-conference games anymore, and many teams won't have common opponents. I guess you could simply do top three per division, or just keep it as is but have 8 wild cards? The issue is that this format really devalues winning the division.

Explain how this works - you're going to tell a bunch of guys that they're now minor-league players? And promote a bunch of guys who aren't good enough? Or are you talking just about the cities, and the AHL players would all move to the former-NHL city, while the NHL players would become the new Hershey Bears (just as an example).

So the NFL is creating a monopoly on the distribution of NFL licenses? They could go a step further, and bring everything in house and just have the "NFL Brand" and not even sell licenses to Reebok, Nike, or anyone else. Nike is the only company allowed to manufacture shirts with their swoosh on them, is that a monopoly? Nike shirts would be cheaper if Reebok and Under Armor could get licenses to market the swoosh. I'm not sure that's really what monopoly is all about. If they created such barriers to entry that nobody could set up a new football league, or if they just bought up all rival football leagues, then they would really have a monopoly. I don't understand why one isn't allowed to control the distribution of it's own privately developed IP. It's not like we're talking about public resources here, like a utility company or something. This is stuff that nobody really needs. Not to get political, but I'm all for more govt regulation in industry. But you can't really regulate something that nobody really needs.

Playing devil's advocate, what law is being broken by customers who buy fake jerseys? The act of producing and selling counterfeits is the illegal act here. So customers are not breaking the law? If you knowingly buy stolen goods, you are braking the law, as you are giving the thieves more incentive to keep stealing. I would believe that the same applies to stolen designs and trademarks. DG is right, that there's not much that the league can do about it, so they should adjust their price structure to make it a harder decision for someone to buy a knock off (well, it's only $50 more for the real thing instead of $200 more, so...) however, it's pretty sad that members of a board flooded with pro graphic designers, some of which have sold designs to teams / leagues, would fail to see the problem with buying this crap. If you want to buy it, fine - you suck, but fine. Just don't come to a board and talk about how many illegally reproduced TMs you've purchased, when there's a chance that the designer of the logo / uniform is reading it. It's just not cool, IMO.

Unless it's one big league with franchises in other countries that all play by the same CBA and rules as far as salary caps, etc., then IMO no team can really be called the "World" champions (exception of NFL, since there aren't any other "major" American-rules football leagues.) The term "World Champion" should only be applied to international competition, where it's really the best of each nation competing against each other. It's not right to have a NHL team that is limited by a salary cap and other quirks compared to a team in some other country that has to deal with totally separate issues when fielding teams. The goal of each of the US sports (except baseball... at least now) is to achieve parity so that each team is competitive enough to draw interest. It just doesn't make sense to crown the Blackhawks the "World Champions", when in effect, that implies that if there was some big tournament, they'd win - but I'm sure some country could enter an all-star team that would beat them. So really, the only "World Champion" is the country who's all-star team beats all the other all-star teams.

They could go with powder blue. Not a current team color, but was a part of their scheme in the maroon days. Plus, you can't really walk more than twenty feet in Citizens Bank Park without running into somebody wearing powder blue Phillies gear. Until I'm proven wrong (probably by ColorWerx) I'll argue that powder blue was never part of their color scheme, just like gray isn't now. It was simply the base color of their road uniform, and appeared nowhere else in any official marks. They were red, maroon, and white in the '70s / early '80s, and then simply maroon and white in the late '80s.

The letters on the NOB are too close, and possibly a little too thick. Also, the "it's OK to support IP theft because I'm just a college student" argument is absurd.

So I guess that Saints "World" Champions banner will be the last of it's kind that features a unique SB logo and not the new standard one (not that there's too many football banners anyway.)