Carpenter to Start and Rolen Out, Ensberg In

[CC97]

Alright. Fair enough, you convinced me that it's a lot closer than it looks.

And nevermind, no record setting pace, I misread something on ESPN, here it is... it's actually about him being the midseason Cy Young...

Much as we love Dontrelle Willis and the electric current he plugs into every ballpark he pitches in, the Cy Young is about one thing and one thing only: Who has pitched the best? So we don't care if Willis has won 13 games and the Rocket has won just seven. Clemens' ERA is nine-tenths of a run lower than Willis'. And it isn't much closer in departments like strikeout rate, opponent batting average, WHIP or quality starts. The Marlins have blown just one save for Dontrelle. The Astros have blown three for Clemens. And you can account for their entire win differential in the six games Clemens started in which the Astros scored zero runs while he was in the game. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Clemens' 1.48 ERA is the lowest by any pitcher at the break, in a non-strike season, since 1968 (Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale). And if the Rocket can keep his ERA that miniscule, it would be the lowest by any 40-something pitcher since Cy Young (the pitcher, not the trophy) in 1908. Any more questions?

Isn't that opposite of why Clemens won the Cy over Johnson last season?

[pcgd]

Mainly why this is a big deal is because there are 4 people that could start. No matter who LaRussa picked he was going to be wrong. All 4 are very deserving and nobody should have a problem with any of them. Clemens is an amazing pitcher, and then throw in the fact he's over 40 and its even more impressive. Dontrell Willis' career best in wins is 14. He's got 13 thus far. He's a big reason the Marlins are still in the playoff hunt. Livan Hernandez has won 11 straight for a bunch of nobodies, and they are the "newest" team and thusfar, the big story this year.

Carpenter isn't a terrible story himself. This is a guy that everyone threw to the curb. 2 years ago he didn't know if he'd ever pitch again, now he's starting in the all-star game. The cardinals took a chance on him after he had been out of the game for 2 years with sholder surgerys.

There are alot of reasons he got the ball. Strategies (Carp holds runners on well, Piazza sucks; Lo Duca would catch Willis later in the game, Clemens stronger in later innings, Carp good at the begining), Stats, who's hot right now, and its a good story like it or not.

As for the Pujols/Lee thing, I don't know what to say. You are right that Andruw probably would have been better. Now you'll have Pujols more than likely playing the whole game. But it was pretty much well known that whoever lost the 1B vote would be the DH. Had this situation been reversed and Pujols won the first base vote, would people be complaining about Lee being the DH? Probably not. It really doesn't matter what LaRussa does, everyone in St. Louis loves him and everyone else hates him for some reason. So no matter what he does, people will bitch.

[gashouser27]

Let's remember Clemens brilliant start in a previous All-Star game!

Also he has pitched so much in the AL

It is not that big of a deal because no one pitches for very long anyway.

Also remember since Selig had the "brilliant" idea of giving home field to the winning league in the World Series, LaRussa has a lot to play for. The Cards are like 12 games in first place and clearly the best team in the NL

Did anyone squawk when Torre loaded up his All Star team bench with every Yankee possible?

[STL FANATIC]

Pujols at DH was a nobrainer...La Russa isn't managing this game to make it easy for the fans to follow, he's managing this game to win...

Back when the All Star Game didn't mean anything and the NL had won the ASG the good majority of the last 30-plus years when La Russa was managing the AL in '89, '90, and '91, La Russa managed to win the games...and he did win the games.

Now that the game actually means something that has had and perhaps will have an effect on La Russa's team, you think he'll manage so it's a fun game for the fans? He'll manage to win.

(See a great article by Bernie Miklasz of the STL Post-Dispatch on this topic: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...0?OpenDocument)

Putting Pujols at DH was obvious if the NL wants to win this game. Would you honestly leave the best hitter in the majors (I won't get into his season vs. D. Lee's season...but seriously..) out of the starting lineup if you had the choice?

Lee probably plays about 6 innings at first, then Pujols moves to first and La Russa pinch hits the rest of the time in the cleanup spot. That's a good strategy.

[HedleyLamarr]

Pujols at DH was a nobrainer...La Russa isn't managing this game to make it easy for the fans to follow, he's managing this game to win...

Back when the All Star Game didn't mean anything and the NL had won the ASG the good majority of the last 30-plus years when La Russa was managing the AL in '89, '90, and '91, La Russa managed to win the games...and he did win the games.

Now that the game actually means something that has had and perhaps will have an effect on La Russa's team, you think he'll manage so it's a fun game for the fans? He'll manage to win.

(See a great article by Bernie Miklasz of the STL Post-Dispatch on this topic: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...0?OpenDocument)

Putting Pujols at DH was obvious if the NL wants to win this game. Would you honestly leave the best hitter in the majors (I won't get into his season vs. D. Lee's season...but seriously..) out of the starting lineup if you had the choice?

Lee probably plays about 6 innings at first, then Pujols moves to first and La Russa pinch hits the rest of the time in the cleanup spot. That's a good strategy.

You're missing the point. La Russa knows that D. Lee has a sore shoulder, and probably won't play past the 4th inning. Pujols was basically guarenteed plenty of playing time already, and would get at least two at-bats. But these All-Star games are all about rewarding those that have had a great start to the season. Andruw Jones is having his breakout year offensively, and has basically carried an inept Braves offense for the past few weeks. Carlos Lee is leading the league in RBI's in his first season against majority-NL pitching. Pujols got the nod for two reasons: Reputation, and favortism by his manager. The game is important (somewhat), but this is a showcase of baseball's top players for all baseball fans. How will the fans of Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Arizona, and San Francisco feel if their lone representative doesn't get to be in the game? Five of the ten NL starters (including Rolen) are/were Cardinals. St. Louis has enough representation in the game, wouldn't you think?

[STL FANATIC]

Sorry Hedley, but your missing the point.

This game is no longer just about showcasing players to fans. If score is being kept, La Russa plays (manages) to win anyways, but now this game is about home field advantage. La Russa is gonna manage to win, not to let all the fans see their player. In fact, in an article I read on the post dispatches website, it had a list of the order the pitchers would enter the game (the article had interviewed La Russa, but this wasn't a quote, so it's kinda unofficial), and it said they'd all go one inning and it listed the order...Feuntes from Colorado was likely to be kept in case of extra innings...and he's Colorado's only representative...La Russa wants to win this game...he simply isn't gonna try and put on a fun show for fans. I'm sure he hopes fans will enjoy the competitive nature it will have, but first and for most he wants to win.

As for the great start to the season...even though Lee's stats are minimally better than Pujols so far this first half...Pujols is still having one of the best seasons in baseball right now, it's not like he doesn't deserve this. At any other position he would be starting easily. With the DH, La Russa can let him start anyways.

Lee will probably get at least 2 at bats and no more than 3. Pujols then moves to first and you pinch hit in the four spot the rest of the game...it's not like thier aren't plenty of great hitters available to pinch hit (one could argue that allows more players into the game...).

As for enough Cardinal representation (4 Cards will start Rolen opted out, so that leaves Eck and Edmonds, and now Pujols and Carp), yeah, the Cards have plenty. La Russa plainly said earlier this week the Cards have too much, even though he also admitted they have other players who weren't selected that deserved it (see Morris and Molina). But again, representation isn't the most important factor anymore. Winning the game is. And that's La Russa's goal.

La Russa isn't using his players to play favorites, he's using his players because he feels they are the best (and there's no convincing argument that they aren't), and he wants to win. Would you have him not use the best?

[HedleyLamarr]

As for the great start to the season...even though Lee's stats are minimally better than Pujols so far this first half...

That just proves my point.....La Russa picked his guy over the guy with the better starts. Pujols was already guarenteed playing time, as the only other 1B on the roster. There are six reserve OF's on the NL squad...all not guarenteed playing time, and all deserving to play.

Pure home team bias, and no Cardinal fan will admit it.

[Cujo]

Oh, here we go. According to the great minds at FOX, namely Joe Buck, Tony LaRussa chose Carpenter to start because he works well whenever Mike Piazza is catching. Of course! That's exactly why he got the start over Clemens and Willis!

Joe Buck, please do us all a favor and shut the :censored: up.

[CC97]

Oh, here we go. According to the great minds at FOX, namely Joe Buck, Tony LaRussa chose Carpenter to start because he works well whenever Mike Piazza is catching. Of course! That's exactly why he got the start over Clemens and Willis!

Joe Buck, please do us all a favor and shut the :censored: up.

When has Carpenter ever pitched to Piazza?

[DEAD!]

Oh, here we go.  According to the great minds at FOX, namely Joe Buck, Tony LaRussa chose Carpenter to start because he works well whenever Mike Piazza is catching.  Of course!  That's exactly why he got the start over Clemens and Willis!

Joe Buck, please do us all a favor and shut the :censored: up.

When has Carpenter ever pitched to Piazza?

I think the point is they need a pitcher who pitches TO Piazza, not AT Piazza

[Cujo]

Oh, here we go.  According to the great minds at FOX, namely Joe Buck, Tony LaRussa chose Carpenter to start because he works well whenever Mike Piazza is catching.  Of course!  That's exactly why he got the start over Clemens and Willis!

Joe Buck, please do us all a favor and shut the :censored: up.

When has Carpenter ever pitched to Piazza?

That's exactly what I was thinking. You gotta remember Joe Buck is a huge St. Louis guy and probably doesn't want the viewers to think LaRussa is a homer (or whatever you wanna call it) by starting Carpenter.

And did Joe Buck just do his best impression of Eminem doing his imperssion of Pee Wee Herman?? Dear god help us!

[NJTank]

Clemens started for the NL and for the AL hmmm I dont recall

[HedleyLamarr]

Clemens started for the NL and for the AL hmmm I dont recall

Mulder started for the AL, I believe.

[HedleyLamarr]

Oh, here we go.  According to the great minds at FOX, namely Joe Buck, Tony LaRussa chose Carpenter to start because he works well whenever Mike Piazza is catching.  Of course!  That's exactly why he got the start over Clemens and Willis!

Joe Buck, please do us all a favor and shut the :censored: up.

When has Carpenter ever pitched to Piazza?

That's exactly what I was thinking. You gotta remember Joe Buck is a huge St. Louis guy and probably doesn't want the viewers to think LaRussa is a homer (or whatever you wanna call it) by starting Carpenter.

And did Joe Buck just do his best impression of Eminem doing his imperssion of Pee Wee Herman?? Dear god help us!

Not to mention that Tim McCarver used to play for the Cardinals.....

[pcgd]

The argument that Carpenter would work well with Piazza was because Carp has allowed 1 stolen base all season. Piazza can't throw at all. Carp would help offset it. That was what Buck was talking about. Was it valid? Maybe not. But it wasn't some crazy conspiracy theory.

Joe Buck is a St. Louis guy. He sucks something awful doing National telecasts. So does McCarver. But you actually think in hte back of his head there's some kind of conspiracy to make LaRussa look good? Fox makes every decision by anyone associated with the MLB look genius.

Andruw Jones has more homers than Pujols. Pujols has top 5 numbers in all Triple Crown catagories. He's hitting 55 points higher than him with more ABs, more Walks, and half the K's. Carlos Lee's numbers are the same as Jones (minus the HRs). Whos had the better all around year?

Did you notice all the Cardinals were out by the 5th? And that his closer didn't play. That darn Tony LaRussa playing favorites again!

I don't understand how a team that goes out and plays the game right, doesn't have anyone that could even half considered being a head case, a manager that wins and helps out the community, and has the second best record in the league this year, gets so much slack around here.

LaRussa playing favorites.

A guy with the most wins in the league and a single run scored in his last 40 innings shouldn't start.

The announcers have St. Louis ties, so they must play favorites. (btw...if Fox loves the Cardinals so much, why are they on TV like 3 times all year long?)

Pujols doesn't deserve to be the DH.

I guess this happens when you don't have pitchers attacking cameramen

or guys that mouth off at any chance they get

or a bunch of characters in the locker room.

[STL FANATIC]

Amen, Pat, amen.

[yh]

Pure home team bias, and no Cardinal fan will admit it.

If you want to engage in meaningful debate and have your opinions respected, you might want to avoid ridiculous blanket statements with unprovable thesis statements.

Pure home team bias? - How can you prove this? If the purported bias was "pure" that must mean that there is uncontroverted, empirical evidence of such. Please provide the evidence.

"No Cardinal fan will admit it." I take issue with each italicized item. Starting with the second item, if the purported home team bias is not "pure" (which it isn't because it cannot be proven), then it's an absolute impossibility to "admit" it because you cannot admit something that doesn't exist. And assuming arguendo that you meant "believe" where you stated "admit" you still cannot prove that no Cardinal fan believes there was some sort of bias to LaRussa's decision. I'm sure there are quite a few Cardinal fans who believe LaRussa was playing favorites and frankly some might actually be happy about it.

Hedley, I hope you won't take this criticism too personally, but the practice of throwing out blanket generalizations that use improbable or completely unproveable thesis statements is, at least for me, a hallmark of a poster who lacks credibility and who wants to do nothing more than incite arguments and bait uncivil dialogue. Please exercise a little more care or outright restraint when articulating your beliefs. Many thanks.