Marlins closer to securing future in South Fla

[marlinfan]

Miami ballpark deal progressing

01/07/2007 2:29 AM ET

By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com

BEVERLEY HILLS, Calif. -- Major League Baseball is closing in on finalizing a new ballpark deal in downtown Miami that would keep the Marlins in South Florida for a generation, the sport's No. 2 official said on Saturday night, just prior to the annual dinner held by the Professional Baseball Scouts Foundation at a local hotel.

The ballpark, replete with a retractable roof, would be located in a redevelopment district just miles inland from the American Airlines Arena, which is located on the banks of Biscayne Bay.

"Our highest priority this winter is to get a ballpark deal done in Miami," Bob DuPuy, Major League Baseball's president and chief operating officer, told MLB.com. "We've had tremendous cooperation from the county manager and the mayor. There have been several meetings and we are really optimistic we can get this done. There's a will to get this done. It's necessary for the Marlins. We're committed to baseball remaining in South Florida."

The ballpark is projected to be funded in a 60-40 percent public-private partnership between the city of Miami, Dade County and the Marlins, DuPuy said, with the public funding coming from hotel-motel, facility and redevelopment district taxes. A sales or income tax that would directly affect Dade County citizens is not contemplated nor is state money at the moment.

The deal wouldn't have to go to a public vote, but it would have to be approved by the Miami City Council and the Dade County Board of Supervisors, added DuPuy, who has become the point man for MLB and the Marlins on the project.

In South Florida, after a deal in Miami to build the facility on land near the Orange Bowl fell through several years ago when a $30 million gap in the project's cost couldn't be closed, the Marlins were allowed to explore moving the franchise to another state. But a possible shift to San Antonio was essentially nixed by MLB, which has decided to keep the team where it is.

A ballpark proposal from nearby Hialeah seems to have stimulated resolve in Miami for building the stadium there.

Asked if a deal was imminent, DuPuy stopped short of that assessment.

"Imminent is a difficult word," he said. "Everyone is working very hard and I do believe everyone is committed to getting it done. So I would hope that this winter we could finally bring it resolution."

Since 2002, MLB's stadium efforts have been bifurcated, to say the least, between Montreal/Washington, D.C., Minnesota, Oakland and Florida. But each of the first three situations now seemed to be resolved.

Since the Marlins expanded into the National League in 1993, they have played in what is now called Dolphin Stadium, an open-air football facility that is home to the NFL's Miami Dolphins. The baseball team has a lease to play there through 2010, but has been told it must find a new venue by 2011.

The Marlins have won the World Series twice in their short existence (1997 and 2003), but three separate ownership groups have found it nearly impossible over the past decade to fund and build a new ballpark in South Florida, until now.

Jeffery Loria and his group of minority partners purchased the Marlins on Feb. 15, 2002. Loria had previously owned the Expos, but he and president David Samson failed to get a new stadium in Montreal to save that franchise for Quebec. At the same time, MLB purchased the Expos from Loria, John Henry, the previous Marlins owner, became part of a group that bought the Red Sox.

Despite defeating the Yankees to win the 2003 World Series, Samson claimed that the Marlins were losing in excess of $30 million a year. After the Miami stadium deal collapsed in 2005, Loria ordered player payroll cut, and it was reduced to $15 million this past season.

Though the Marlins were surprisingly competitive, they drew a National League low 1,165,120 at home, well below the league average of 2,598,741. They attracted a high of 3,064,847 during their inaugural 1993 season, but since then have only exceeded 2 million once -- in 1997.

The current stadium is located north of downtown Miami not far from Fort Lauderdale. DuPuy said the Marlins need a ballpark that has a retractable roof, giving fans certainty that games will be played during summer months in South Florida when the heat and humidity is a constant and showers are always expected.

"It's a vertical audience in South Florida," DuPuy said. "In order to draw fans down to Miami from (Broward County) they need to know that the game is going to start on time and be over in two to three hours. That's the opinion of MLB and that's the opinion of the Marlins. A retractable roof is essential in making this situation work."

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...sp&c_id=fla

I'll believe it when I see it, but this is the most promising news on this front in a very very long time.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

What's the point? I can't think that it's good for the Marlins to attract free agents with the state of their team in flux every year. I think we can agree that stadium issues killed the Expos a decade ago.

There's been talk about plans to think about possibly going forward with attracting the necessary support to consider perhaps a new stadium maybe in South Florida for a very long time now. At what point do decision makers realize it probably isn't happening, and maybe they should consider moving the team to place that will build a stadium?

[NJTank]

If they have a stadium with a retractable roof the Marlins will no longer be in flux.

[marlinfan]

What's the point? I can't think that it's good for the Marlins to attract free agents with the state of their team in flux every year. I think we can agree that stadium issues killed the Expos a decade ago.

There's been talk about plans to think about possibly going forward with attracting the necessary support to consider perhaps a new stadium maybe in South Florida for a very long time now. At what point do decision makers realize it probably isn't happening, and maybe they should consider moving the team to place that will build a stadium?

Stadium = Revenue

Revenue = Financial Stability

Financial stability is something the Marlins have lacked since the late 90s.

This deal is being negotiated by MLB and this is something MLB wants done because of the importance of the South Florida market especially when it comes to the Caribbean. Lets see where this goes, but I will say this is the most promising news on the stadium front in almost 2 years.

[Guest]

What's the point? I can't think that it's good for the Marlins to attract free agents with the state of their team in flux every year. I think we can agree that stadium issues killed the Expos a decade ago.

There's been talk about plans to think about possibly going forward with attracting the necessary support to consider perhaps a new stadium maybe in South Florida for a very long time now. At what point do decision makers realize it probably isn't happening, and maybe they should consider moving the team to place that will build a stadium?

Probably never. Miami is so overvalued as a sports market.

[Mac the Knife]

Stadium = Revenue

Revenue = Financial Stability

Unfortunately, as Pittsburgh has proven though, Financial Stability does not equal competitiveness.

[leedsunited]

It disgusts me whenever Jeffrey Loria gets something he wants.

And baseball couldn't work this hard to keep the 'Spos in Montreal? Or they just didn't care, obviously.

[Brian in Boston]

Well, new Florida governor Charlie Crist - a former attorney for Major League Baseball - has announced that he supports state funding towards construction of a downtown Miami ballpark for the Marlins. He's indicated that the state should be willing to close a gap in the funding between what the City of Miami, Miami-Dade County and the Marlins are each willing to pay.

We shall see.

[Bronxmet]

Article from ESPN.com:

Relocating a team to Portland makes sense

The idea of baseball in Portland, Ore., is new for a lot of people. But it has been a lifetime habit for Boston Red Sox icon Johnny Pesky, and he's 87 years old.

Pesky was born in 1919 and grew up following his hometown Portland Beavers of the Pacific Coast League. He has spent most of his life on the opposite coast, but is intrigued by the movement to bring the Florida Marlins or another major league baseball franchise to Portland.

"What Portland always had was good fans,'' Pesky said in a 2006 interview. "I haven't been back in five years, and the growth has been phenomenal ? Portland is bigger than more than a few other cities that host major league baseball. Why shouldn't Portland have a club? I think they should get a shot. I think Portland will have a team in three or four years.''

Then again, if the Marlins solve their stadium issues in Miami and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays find a way to become competitive, it could be another 34 years before MLB moves another one of its teams. That's how many seasons passed between the shifting of the Washington Senators to Arlington, Texas, and the move of the Montreal Expos to Washington, D.C.

But whether it's by relocation or another as-yet-unforeseen round of expansion, history says the makeup of the MLB membership won't stay the same for too long. Since the Dodgers and Giants moved west in 1958, the sport hasn't gone longer than 16 years without adding or moving teams, averaging an expansion or relocation every eight years.

Look for Portland, a jewel of a city in the shadow of Mt. Hood and near Oregon's scenic coast, to be ready when the next movement comes.

It has already earmarked $150 million for a public-private stadium partnership -- financed in part by a highly creative plan diverting the income taxes of major league players and executives of Portland's new team to retire stadium bonds -- with seven potential stadium sites, including three along the Williamette River downtown. While that stadium is being built, the Beavers' PGE Park could be expanded to about 25,000 seats to accommodate a speedy transition for an existing team, like the Marlins.

Pesky is right about the size of the Portland area compared to some cities that have had MLB franchises for a long time.

"If you took the Pittsburgh stadium and put it in Portland, then Portland would be a stronger market than Pittsburgh,'' economist Andrew Zimbalist told The (Portland) Oregonian last year.

With a population of about 2 million, Portland ranks as the 24th largest metro area in the United States. That's ahead of Cincinnati (25), Kansas City (27) and Milwaukee (37) and right behind Pittsburgh (21), Denver (22) and Cleveland (23). Nielsen ranks the Portland market 23rd, up from 24th a year ago (it passed Buffalo), and way ahead of Kansas City (31), Milwaukee (33) and Cincinnati (34).

Perhaps the most appealing thing about the Portland market is that it currently counts the NBA's Trail Blazers as the only franchises from sports' four basic alphabet groups (NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB).

According to math by the Portland Baseball Group, only Los Angeles and New York have a higher ratio of population to major sports franchises. San Diego is the only bigger metro area that doesn't have at least three teams, and it has the big two in the NFL and MLB.

A Portland franchise would be positioned to receive civic and corporate support. Adidas, which has its 352,000-square foot headquarters in North Portland, has supported the push to bring an MLB franchise to the city. Nike, based in nearby Beaverton, might join the battle for naming rights to the new ballpark.

If the Marlins did wind up moving there, MLB could also realign in a way that makes more geographic sense.

Tampa Bay could move to the National League, where it might develop a rivalry with Atlanta, with Portland's team joining Seattle in the American League West. Texas could be shifted to the AL Central -- a change it was promised more than a decade ago -- and Detroit could move to the AL East. Nothing happens easily, or quickly, in MLB, but this makes sense.

Next in line

Las Vegas: Mayor Oscar Goodman has made the acquisition of a major league franchise a top priority, even bringing a group of showgirls to baseball's winter meetings. The reality lags behind the aggressive marketing, however. Some have a perception that Las Vegas is America's boomtown, but it's hardly Phoenix. It's 31st in the size of metro areas and 48th among television markets. None of the four major sports leagues have been willing to court scandal by moving into a city built on the back of gambling, and it doesn't seem likely baseball will be the first.

San Antonio: The Marlins seriously explored their options in the central Texas city last year, but city officials were turned down when they forced owner Jeffrey Loria to make a quick decision about a stadium offer. This was a major relief to the Houston Astros and Texas Rangers, who weren't excited about a third franchise in their state. Mayor Phil Hardberger correctly points to the size of the San Antonio TV market (37th) as a major drawback for bringing a second big-league franchise to a city that is home to the NBA's Spurs.

Charlotte: Like Portland, Charlotte is on its way up. Its TV market ranks 27th, gaining a place in the latest rankings, and it is home to nine Fortune 500 companies. The Minnesota Twins flirted with a move to Charlotte in 1998. But saturation provides the same problem here as in Indianapolis, as the NFL and the NBA beat MLB to the market. A structure remains in place to build a 40,000 seat baseball stadium, but it could be a long time until one is needed.

Northern New Jersey: A third team in the New York/New Jersey market is an intriguing idea, and might be the best way for other franchises to slow the two powerful New York teams. But Yankees owner George Steinbrenner and Mets owner Fred Wilpon would oppose any move to bring a team here at least as adamantly as Orioles owner Peter Angelos did the Expos' relocation to Washington, D.C., and no one has stepped forward to challenge the Yankees and Mets.

Orlando: In a dream world, you'd bulldoze Dolphin Stadium and Tropicana Field and merge Florida's two weak franchises into one, based in the middle of the state. Orlando's TV market is 20th, larger even than Portland, and Disney-based tourism would give an Orlando team some natural advantages. The Devil Rays are playing a regular-season series at Disney World this season, but it's hard to see how MLB unravels its Florida mess to land in the Magic Kingdom.

Norfolk, Va.: Briefly floated as an option for the Expos when the Washington bid was in turmoil, city officials have had talks with the Marlins. Few take it seriously.

I agree with you.

Advantages

Portland/Carolinas/San Antonio: residents are able to watch a local sports team in the summer

Las Vegas: add a sports team and the city changes dramatically

Orlando: Orlando's population would boom (and gives players something good to look for while in Orlando)

Northern New Jersey: residents would not have to deal with traffic to/from NYC

Norfolk: same as Jersey, but replace NYC with Beltway area

Disadvantages

Norfolk: additional traffic on I-64, only major highway taking you from Norfolk to rest of VA

Northern NJ: NY Teams will oppose, as well as some local NIMBYs (not in my backyarders)

Orlando: the city of Tampa will oppose losing fans from their beloved teams

Las Vegas: no one knows how fans will support local franchise

San Antonio: possible opposition from Astros and Rangers, lack of TV Market

Portland/Carolinas: I'm not sure yet

[marlinfan]

Merging two teams and putting it in Orlando is a stupid idea. Moving a team from the 6th largest metro area (South Fla) and the Gateway to the Americas to Orlando is laughable. Plus, in TB there is the whole situation surrounding that nearly water tight lease. Tropicana Field might be a depressing facility aesthetically, but it's as good as any other ballpark when it comes to money-making facilities. Put a good team on the field and Tampa will be as good as any other market that size.

-SA, PDX, CHA and maybe (extremely unlikely) the NY metro area will battle it out for the 2 teams next expansion cycle after all the current teams are situated in new ballparks.

-Putting a team in Norfolk is now out of the question with the Nats in DC.

-Las Vegas has about a .00001% chance of acquiring a MLB team.

-NJ/NY/BRO is going to be a helluva battle if the new commish decides the area needs a third team. The Mets, Yankees and even the Phillies may want large amounts of money similar to what Angelos got that may cost MLB as much as $800 million.

[leedsunited]

Las Vegas is not a sports town, nor does it have the media power or corporate culture (aside from the casinos, there's nothing. And casinos don't need to help support any kind of outside entertainment that's not their own)...

Every second-rate league that's tried to set up shop in the town has been burned badly. And the UNLV Runnin' Rebels can't even pull anyone anymore - truly a bandwagon-running town full of transplants with their own allegiances elsewhere. You think Arizona's bad? LV is ten times worse. And I'm a former resident.

[Guest]

Why should Washington's placement rule out Norfolk? Norfolk is all the way on the other state line. They have no teams at the major league level and it's about the size of Milwaukee, so they should still be considered.

Put a good team on the field and Tampa will be as good as any other market that size.

Which we've seen when New York and Boston come to town. Otherwise, not so much. Tampa Bay will be as good as any market that size when they have a really good team, because Tampa-St. Pete is a fair-weather sports town full of bandwagoners and transplants. This means it is, in reality, a bad market.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Otherwise, not so much. Tampa Bay will be as good as any market that size when they have a really good team, because Tampa-St. Pete is a fair-weather sports town full of bandwagoners and transplants. This means it is, in reality, a bad market.

He's right, you know. Growing populations don't always equal good ideas.

[marlinfan]

Why should Washington's placement rule out Norfolk? Norfolk is all the way on the other state line. They have no teams at the major league level and it's about the size of Milwaukee, so they should still be considered.

Put a good team on the field and Tampa will be as good as any other market that size.

Which we've seen when New York and Boston come to town. Otherwise, not so much. Tampa Bay will be as good as any market that size when they have a really good team, because Tampa-St. Pete is a fair-weather sports town full of bandwagoners and transplants. This means it is, in reality, a bad market.

Norfolk is the Buffalo and Indianapolis of this decade. It's a borderline MLB market that had it's shot and it passed for the time being. Especially when Portland, Charlotte and even San Antonio make much more sense because of disposable income, TV market size, and population growth. A team moved in to the north and soon one will move to Charlotte (huge corporate presence). Baseball is a TV revenue driven sport, not a ticket revenue oriented business like the NHL for example. Carving up the VA/NC area into two TV territories makes much more sense than carving up into three.

TV territories are why you won't see another team in New England or the Northeast anytime soon, even though the area could support one or two more teams. One of the major reasons Peter Angelos didn't want a team in Washington is because it took away a large part of Orioles TV territory.

So when Red Sox and Yankee fans make up almost half of the attendance in a particular market, as it happens in almost every other city the two teams visit, it makes it a bad market? Bad markets are markets are cities with: small populations, little disposable income, and low corporate presence. Bad markets are not based on how many fans the opposing brings in to the stadium especially when the home team has only finished above last once in their history.

You said it yourself, Tampa is a bandwagon town, not a True Fan® city, so in theory if the D-Rays won more games, those bandwagoners would go out to the games.

It takes time to develop a fanbase in any city. It is not something that pops up overnight.

[harperdc]

Portland would be an awesome baseball team...I love the realignment idea, though I'd prefer having PDX in the NL West just because having both NL and AL teams within 200 miles would be awesome....but having a team, period, is what it's all about.

if we could stabilize the Blazers in town (basically getting Allen to promise to keep the team here forever) and get MLB, Portland would become a great sports city. Great fan support, great weather in the summer...gah, sitting out at a ballgame in the summertime in one of the proposed locations near the river would become one of the best scenes in MLB.

[Guest]

You said it yourself, Tampa is a bandwagon town, not a True Fan® city, so in theory if the D-Rays won more games, those bandwagoners would go out to the games.

It takes time to develop a fanbase in any city. It is not something that pops up overnight.

How much time are we supposed to give Tampa? We're going on the tenth year, and the team has been a dismal failure in every way possible: the park is a dump, the attendance is crappy, and the team has failed at signing big names and building through the farm. Face it: St. Petersburg was a bad idea, and it's been executed horribly. At some point, you've gotta just cut loose and try elsewhere.

[marlinfan]

You said it yourself, Tampa is a bandwagon town, not a True Fan® city, so in theory if the D-Rays won more games, those bandwagoners would go out to the games.

It takes time to develop a fanbase in any city. It is not something that pops up overnight.

How much time are we supposed to give Tampa? We're going on the tenth year, and the team has been a dismal failure in every way possible: the park is a dump, the attendance is crappy, and the team has failed at signing big names and building through the farm. Face it: St. Petersburg was a bad idea, and it's been executed horribly. At some point, you've gotta just cut loose and try elsewhere.

How the hell does moving a team because of terrible and misguided ownership help the situation? It's just moving a disaster from one city to another. It makes no sense. Sure attendance would go up for a couple years because of the novelty, but if the same ownership and Front Office is in place, the team will still suck and eventually you are in the same situation you left in Tampa. This is especially crazy when it's the 15th largest TV market in the US and the next viable city is somewhere in the lower 20s.

There is a correlation between winning and attendance (duh) if ownership can put a good team on the field people will come out. When they won 11 games in a row a few years ago the city was going nuts and attendance went up for a time.

Namoli is no longer in charge and all the personnel from 1998-2004 are outta town. New ownership took a huge step this past season with improving their relationship with the fans and that community.

Should the Mets have packed their bags after the '68 season because they weren't winning in New York?

[Guest]

Well, I was hoping the team would be sold to out-of-town interests and this sad chapter would be closed for good.

Enough talk about TV markets. Florida baseball is a failure, and no TV market size ranking can hide that.

[marlinfan]

Well that isn't happening anytime soon, especially since they were sold just last year. Even if someone tried to buy the team and move it, the lease with the city is air tight.