2009 Formula 1 Season

[epper]

I know there's a bunch of open-wheel fans out there, so I thought i'd start up a new thread on the Formula One Season.

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Shocking opening weekend in Australia. Newly formed Brawn GP dominates from start to finish, capped off with a 1-2 by Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello. Hamilton comes all the way through the field from 18th on the grid to take 3rd (Trulli originally finished 3rd but was penalized for passing under yellow).

Vettel and Kubica also have strong showings that were ruined in a battle for 2nd with 3 laps to go. Just a racin' deal: Vettel overshoots a turn trying to save 2nd, can't get the car turned, and Kubica comes down over his front wing, knocking both of them out. Both of them will come back and be contenders for the title.

Ferrari is no where to be seen, Alonso was fairly quiet, and TWO Sebastiens not-named-Vettel in the top 8 (Buemi and Bourdais)......What is this bizarro-world?!? It's shaping up to be quite a season!

Thoughts?

[scooter13]

I wasn't that interested in following this season, but after a start like this, I will be watching closely now.

[DelayedPenalty]

The Vettel-Kubica incident is a little bit misleading. Vettel was fined 10 grid positions in Malaysia for his "stupidity", and the team fined £35,000 (about $50,000), not for his move, but for telling him to drive around on 3 wheels instead of pulling off the track.

Now, someone tell me how attempting to hold your position is a crime? Kubica clearly chopped Vettel before he was clear. Yes Vettel washed up a bit trying to hold the apex of the corner, but he was in no way at fault IMO. What sport is this? RACING! Moving over and letting someone who is "clearly faster" is in no way a sport at all, that's highway driving! Racing incident, nobody should be penalized, no one should appologize. That's good, hard racing, just what F1 was hoping for with the new rules package, and I think they've got it!

If you're going to start penalizing people for taking people out of the race, what about the first corner accident that happens at nearly EVERY race, including this one! How is a one on one collision any less of a racing incident that a 5 car pile up? (unless a blatant move of aggression).

Vettel and Kubica will bounce back.

Very happy to see Brawn GP score their first victory! Jenson Button get his second career win! and Ferrari not get ANY POINTS!!

[dfwabel]

The date for the hearing on the diffusers is important to both Toyota and Braun. It is set for April 14, but by then Braun could have two wins. It could put Ferrari in worse shape if Hamilton gains points from Australia and possibly in KL this week.

[pollux]

Now, someone tell me how attempting to hold your position is a crime? Kubica clearly chopped Vettel before he was clear. Yes Vettel washed up a bit trying to hold the apex of the corner, but he was in no way at fault IMO. What sport is this? RACING! Moving over and letting someone who is "clearly faster" is in no way a sport at all, that's highway driving! Racing incident, nobody should be penalized, no one should appologize. That's good, hard racing, just what F1 was hoping for with the new rules package, and I think they've got it!

completely agree. Kubica wasn't completely in front of Vettel and left him no place to take the turn. They're battling for the 2nd place. Vettel didn't have to let him go through.

The date for the hearing on the diffusers is important to both Toyota and Braun. It is set for April 14, but by then Braun could have two wins. It could put Ferrari in worse shape if Hamilton gains points from Australia and possibly in KL this week.

Hopefully they will keep the decision of the race commissioner. It doesn't happen often that the ruling is changed at the hearing. I hope they keep their points. They clearly made a better car with current rules, and Ferrari and McLaren didn't. Suck it up and do the same, boys!

[DelayedPenalty]

The date for the hearing on the diffusers is important to both Toyota and Braun. It is set for April 14, but by then Braun could have two wins. It could put Ferrari in worse shape if Hamilton gains points from Australia and possibly in KL this week.

Hopefully they will keep the decision of the race commissioner. It doesn't happen often that the ruling is changed at the hearing. I hope they keep their points. They clearly made a better car with current rules, and Ferrari and McLaren didn't. Suck it up and do the same, boys!

I don't really understand what the teams are protesting. Other teams have admitted that the diffuser is not illegal, it was just a better interpretation of the rules than they came up with. I don't know how much of this is true, but Barichello said in the post race interviews that after his first corner shunt, the diffuser was broken anyways, and he still raced his way back to 4th (prior to the Vettel-Kubica curfuffle).

[Saintsfan]

The date for the hearing on the diffusers is important to both Toyota and Braun. It is set for April 14, but by then Braun could have two wins. It could put Ferrari in worse shape if Hamilton gains points from Australia and possibly in KL this week.

Hopefully they will keep the decision of the race commissioner. It doesn't happen often that the ruling is changed at the hearing. I hope they keep their points. They clearly made a better car with current rules, and Ferrari and McLaren didn't. Suck it up and do the same, boys!

I don't really understand what the teams are protesting. Other teams have admitted that the diffuser is not illegal, it was just a better interpretation of the rules than they came up with. I don't know how much of this is true, but Barichello said in the post race interviews that after his first corner shunt, the diffuser was broken anyways, and he still raced his way back to 4th (prior to the Vettel-Kubica curfuffle).

I think its called appealing in hope. FIA and Formula 1 have done some pretty mad things in the past concerning regulations. What I don't get is why FIA can't inspect all the cars before the start of the race/weekend and make a judgement before the race. It will just be the craziest thing ever if Hamilton wins the Australian GP having finished in 4th place.

[pollux]

I think its called appealing in hope. FIA and Formula 1 have done some pretty mad things in the past concerning regulations. What I don't get is why FIA can't inspect all the cars before the start of the race/weekend and make a judgement before the race. It will just be the craziest thing ever if Hamilton wins the Australian GP having finished in 4th place.

They usually defer the inspection to the local authorities, who actually said all cars were fine. I'm pretty sure Ferrari and McLaren put the appeal in because they hadn't thought the rule could be interpreted as to give an advantage, and now they got caught with their pants down.

[DelayedPenalty]

I think its called appealing in hope. FIA and Formula 1 have done some pretty mad things in the past concerning regulations. What I don't get is why FIA can't inspect all the cars before the start of the race/weekend and make a judgement before the race. It will just be the craziest thing ever if Hamilton wins the Australian GP having finished in 4th place.

They usually defer the inspection to the local authorities, who actually said all cars were fine. I'm pretty sure Ferrari and McLaren put the appeal in because they hadn't thought the rule could be interpreted as to give an advantage, and now they got caught with their pants down.

That's the biggest issue with F1 when it comes to rules and regs, it's up to the marshall at each individual event to hand down their ruling, which could be totally different from marshalls at another track. It will be interesting to see what the marshalls in Malaysia say regarding the diffuser. Legal at one event but illegal at another???

[Saintsfan]

I think its called appealing in hope. FIA and Formula 1 have done some pretty mad things in the past concerning regulations. What I don't get is why FIA can't inspect all the cars before the start of the race/weekend and make a judgement before the race. It will just be the craziest thing ever if Hamilton wins the Australian GP having finished in 4th place.

They usually defer the inspection to the local authorities, who actually said all cars were fine. I'm pretty sure Ferrari and McLaren put the appeal in because they hadn't thought the rule could be interpreted as to give an advantage, and now they got caught with their pants down.

That's the biggest issue with F1 when it comes to rules and regs, it's up to the marshall at each individual event to hand down their ruling, which could be totally different from marshalls at another track. It will be interesting to see what the marshalls in Malaysia say regarding the diffuser. Legal at one event but illegal at another???

What I don't get is how F1 can't just look at the cars before the season begins and go 'yes that design is within our rules' or 'no, you need to change these things'. Why is that impossible? Surely given the controversies that have happened in the past, that would just be common sense.

[pollux]

What I don't get is how F1 can't just look at the cars before the season begins and go 'yes that design is within our rules' or 'no, you need to change these things'. Why is that impossible? Surely given the controversies that have happened in the past, that would just be common sense.

Teams usually continue developing the cars during the season. There are some modifications over every race to make sure that the cars adapt well to one particular track.

I'd be happy if they were to freeze development during the season. This way you'd get one car, and only if it violates some rules you'd be allowed to change it to conform to those rules. Otherwise, suck it up and stick with what was created initially. That would be a big cost reduction change.

Of course they'll never go for that.

[Saintsfan]

What I don't get is how F1 can't just look at the cars before the season begins and go 'yes that design is within our rules' or 'no, you need to change these things'. Why is that impossible? Surely given the controversies that have happened in the past, that would just be common sense.

Teams usually continue developing the cars during the season. There are some modifications over every race to make sure that the cars adapt well to one particular track.

I'd be happy if they were to freeze development during the season. This way you'd get one car, and only if it violates some rules you'd be allowed to change it to conform to those rules. Otherwise, suck it up and stick with what was created initially. That would be a big cost reduction change.

Of course they'll never go for that.

Good point, I guess what I mean is why can't F1 take a bigger role in saying if a car is legal or not before it races, so that we don't get the position we have now of waiting to see if a team is disqualified weeks after the race has finished. Would anything like that ever be allowed to happen in Indykart (is that what it is still called) or NASCAR?

[DelayedPenalty]

What I don't get is how F1 can't just look at the cars before the season begins and go 'yes that design is within our rules' or 'no, you need to change these things'. Why is that impossible? Surely given the controversies that have happened in the past, that would just be common sense.

Teams usually continue developing the cars during the season. There are some modifications over every race to make sure that the cars adapt well to one particular track.

I'd be happy if they were to freeze development during the season. This way you'd get one car, and only if it violates some rules you'd be allowed to change it to conform to those rules. Otherwise, suck it up and stick with what was created initially. That would be a big cost reduction change.

Of course they'll never go for that.

Good point, I guess what I mean is why can't F1 take a bigger role in saying if a car is legal or not before it races, so that we don't get the position we have now of waiting to see if a team is disqualified weeks after the race has finished. Would anything like that ever be allowed to happen in Indykart (is that what it is still called) or NASCAR?

I think both you guys are on the right track. There needs to be a freeze on development throughout the season. Develop a car, debut it at Australia, then that's it. No changes or modifications between races. Also, that car needs to be inspected by F1 officials prior to the season starting and deemed legal or illegal, then leave it up to the race marshalls to uphold the legality from race to race by doing pre or post race inspections to look for changes.

saintsfan, to answer your question; I can't think of a time when a car has been ruled to be illegal weeks after a race in either Nascar or Indycar, mostly because the teams bring a different racecar to each track depending on the type of cicruit they're running (2 mile oval, 1.5 mile, short track, road course, etc). Nascar also closely inspects each car before qualifying, before the race, and after the race, so penalties are handed down swiftly. The rules are so strict that there is no debate; the car is either legal, or illegal.

[DelayedPenalty]

Is anyone else (besides me) playing Yahoo UK's Fantasy Grand Prix? I'm currently second in the Fans Of Red Bull Renault group!

[Saintsfan]

What I don't get is how F1 can't just look at the cars before the season begins and go 'yes that design is within our rules' or 'no, you need to change these things'. Why is that impossible? Surely given the controversies that have happened in the past, that would just be common sense.

Teams usually continue developing the cars during the season. There are some modifications over every race to make sure that the cars adapt well to one particular track.

I'd be happy if they were to freeze development during the season. This way you'd get one car, and only if it violates some rules you'd be allowed to change it to conform to those rules. Otherwise, suck it up and stick with what was created initially. That would be a big cost reduction change.

Of course they'll never go for that.

Good point, I guess what I mean is why can't F1 take a bigger role in saying if a car is legal or not before it races, so that we don't get the position we have now of waiting to see if a team is disqualified weeks after the race has finished. Would anything like that ever be allowed to happen in Indykart (is that what it is still called) or NASCAR?

I think both you guys are on the right track. There needs to be a freeze on development throughout the season. Develop a car, debut it at Australia, then that's it. No changes or modifications between races. Also, that car needs to be inspected by F1 officials prior to the season starting and deemed legal or illegal, then leave it up to the race marshalls to uphold the legality from race to race by doing pre or post race inspections to look for changes.

saintsfan, to answer your question; I can't think of a time when a car has been ruled to be illegal weeks after a race in either Nascar or Indycar, mostly because the teams bring a different racecar to each track depending on the type of cicruit they're running (2 mile oval, 1.5 mile, short track, road course, etc). Nascar also closely inspects each car before qualifying, before the race, and after the race, so penalties are handed down swiftly. The rules are so strict that there is no debate; the car is either legal, or illegal.

There are at least limits to testing in F1 this year, so there isn't likely to be a lot of car development through the season.

Delayed Penalty, if only F1 could be that decisive. I think its a great detrement to the sport when the kind of near farce, like there has been over the cars in Australia, drags on like it is at the moment. Obviously teams are going to adjust settings depending on the tracks, but there is no reason I am sure that F1 couldn't take a much more forceful position on the legality of its cars.

[pollux]

There are at least limits to testing in F1 this year, so there isn't likely to be a lot of car development through the season.

There are limits to track testing. It's no secret most of the teams spent millions developing an aerodynamic tunnel to test drag of the wings or other parts. While it may not be exact, they can get pretty close to designing a part that will be very efficient without ever testing it on the track before using it in a race.

Also, with the newest computer simulations, they can pretty much recreate a whole race environment virtually without using the official testing days.

That's why a freeze in development would level the playing field every season. I, for one, am happy that we will see more than two teams fighting for the championship this season.

[pheer]

There's a possibility that F1 is going to dismiss Lewis Hamilton from the Championship....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...icle2357195.ece

[pollux]

There's a possibility that F1 is going to dismiss Lewis Hamilton from the Championship....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...icle2357195.ece

Very interesting... So they say he made the right move, but he lied about being informed by his team to let Trulli pass him after. F1 is deliberately screwing people over. They are now monitoring conversations between drivers and pit crews to make sure they don't cheat.

[DelayedPenalty]

There's a possibility that F1 is going to dismiss Lewis Hamilton from the Championship....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...icle2357195.ece

Very interesting... So they say he made the right move, but he lied about being informed by his team to let Trulli pass him after. F1 is deliberately screwing people over. They are now monitoring conversations between drivers and pit crews to make sure they don't cheat.

If the television feed has access to the radio feeds from teams, the stewards should have access as well. I was wondering about that whole incident, because I know I saw on TV (SPEED here in the US) a Toyota run wide, and Hamilton get ahead, even though the safety car had already been brought out.

Does this mean Trulli's penalty stands? or does he get his third place finish back since Hamilton was technically the one who passed under yellow?

[epper]

the thing about hamilton's penalty though, is that with the new system for determining the champ, its not going to affect him at all for the driver's title. all he lost was 6 pts in the race for 2nd place in the championship (and i guess constructors,too) . now if it would have been a race win taken away, it would be another story.