A U.S. National Stadium?

[gosioux76]

By calling soccer "a sport nobody cares about," you came off sounding like the very real and all-too-vocal group of U.S. sports fans so threatened by their inability to understand the sport's appeal that they're left with only ridicule as a defense.

Wow, that may be one of the top 10 absurd things I've read on here.

I've worked at many soccer games, most recently a CONACACAF Gold-cup double-header. I've BSd with hundreds of soccer fans from all over the world, and all over our country. One thing I've noticed - fans of non-US teams (Honduras, Spain, Italy, etc. - people who either traveled here from there, or immigrated here) are more than happy to talk to anyone else about soccer, and explain the game, and help you understand what's happening and why a certain strategy is being employed, etc.

The American fans (for the most part, there's obviously exceptions) are the most arrogant and snobby fans I think I've ever encountered. As soon as they realize you don't "appreciate" soccer, they just act like you're inferior and unintelligent because you "can't understand" the beauty of the sport. It's like they have their little snobby club, and don't want anyone else to get in.

I talk to people and ask questions because I legitimately want to learn about the game, because frankly, I don't understand it and want to see what the rest of the world sees. My lack of understanding certainly isn't from a lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of experience and education. I've learned more about the game from a friend I made who is originally from Iran, than from any of the dozens of American-born fans that I know.

Again, I know that there are good American soccer fans who understand that to grow the sport, they need to be outgoing and accepting of those who aren't as versed as them. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that those people represent the minority.

I guess it's not that much different than hockey...

I appreciate your experience and, moreso, your willingness to try appreciating the game. And I agree, that to grow the sport you need to accept those not as savvy to the game. Nor do I profess to be fully understanding of the game or how it works. That wasn't my point.

Like you, I was a non-soccer-savvy sports fan who made an effort to understand what others saw in the game. But you can't seriously argue that there isn't a large element of fans out there that gleefully dismiss soccer as irrelevant, without making the same effort your or I have apparently made? The Jim Rome show for years has been exhibit A.

Even at ESPN, which thankfully is starting to seriously invest in the sport, writers find themselves responding to you-can't-seriously-like-soccer comments from readers. Consider this Bill Simmons mailbag column posted Friday:

Q: You don't like soccer. You are just bored because the Sox aren't that good, and football hasn't started. Also, you are trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer. You can't. Stop. Write a mailbag.

-- Chris, Wilmington, Del.

SG: What do you think I'm doing? By the way, "you're just trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer" is my second favorite conspiracy about my summer crush on soccer behind "you're only writing about soccer because ESPN made you because they invested so much money in the World Cup."

So call me absurd. Call me a soccer snob. But don't begin telling me this "absurd" notion of a pervasive soccer-ridiculing element of U.S. fans isn't rooted in truth. Fans like yourself that are willing to understand the game are in a minority of their own.

(As a side note, I'm trying not to come off as a prick. I'm actually enjoying the debate.)

[rainmaker17]

I was expecting to get flamed for at least two whole pages over that.

Buckle up. You will.

[BBTV]

By calling soccer "a sport nobody cares about," you came off sounding like the very real and all-too-vocal group of U.S. sports fans so threatened by their inability to understand the sport's appeal that they're left with only ridicule as a defense.

Wow, that may be one of the top 10 absurd things I've read on here.

I've worked at many soccer games, most recently a CONACACAF Gold-cup double-header. I've BSd with hundreds of soccer fans from all over the world, and all over our country. One thing I've noticed - fans of non-US teams (Honduras, Spain, Italy, etc. - people who either traveled here from there, or immigrated here) are more than happy to talk to anyone else about soccer, and explain the game, and help you understand what's happening and why a certain strategy is being employed, etc.

The American fans (for the most part, there's obviously exceptions) are the most arrogant and snobby fans I think I've ever encountered. As soon as they realize you don't "appreciate" soccer, they just act like you're inferior and unintelligent because you "can't understand" the beauty of the sport. It's like they have their little snobby club, and don't want anyone else to get in.

I talk to people and ask questions because I legitimately want to learn about the game, because frankly, I don't understand it and want to see what the rest of the world sees. My lack of understanding certainly isn't from a lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of experience and education. I've learned more about the game from a friend I made who is originally from Iran, than from any of the dozens of American-born fans that I know.

Again, I know that there are good American soccer fans who understand that to grow the sport, they need to be outgoing and accepting of those who aren't as versed as them. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that those people represent the minority.

I guess it's not that much different than hockey...

I appreciate your experience and, moreso, your willingness to try appreciating the game. And I agree, that to grow the sport you need to accept those not as savvy to the game. Nor do I profess to be fully understanding of the game or how it works. That wasn't my point.

Like you, I was a non-soccer-savvy sports fan who made an effort to understand what others saw in the game. But you can't seriously argue that there isn't a large element of fans out there that gleefully dismiss soccer as irrelevant, without making the same effort your or I have apparently made? The Jim Rome show for years has been exhibit A.

Even at ESPN, which thankfully is starting to seriously invest in the sport, writers find themselves responding to you-can't-seriously-like-soccer comments from readers. Consider this Bill Simmons mailbag column posted Friday:

Q: You don't like soccer. You are just bored because the Sox aren't that good, and football hasn't started. Also, you are trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer. You can't. Stop. Write a mailbag.

-- Chris, Wilmington, Del.

SG: What do you think I'm doing? By the way, "you're just trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer" is my second favorite conspiracy about my summer crush on soccer behind "you're only writing about soccer because ESPN made you because they invested so much money in the World Cup."

So call me absurd. Call me a soccer snob. But don't begin telling me this "absurd" notion of a pervasive soccer-ridiculing element of U.S. fans isn't rooted in truth. Fans like yourself that are willing to understand the game are in a minority of their own.

(As a side note, I'm trying not to come off as a prick. I'm actually enjoying the debate.)

I still don't see how anyone is "threatened" by their "inability to understand". You're basically equating the mentality of non-soccer fans with (for lack of a better comparison) that of homophobes.

I think the ridicule has nothing to do with any of your points... I think that the ridicule is born out of the almost phony-devotion that a lot (not all) of Soccer fans show, almost like they're trying too hard.

I'm sure that the "good" and "true" fans of the sport probably aren't like this, but there certainly is a (visible majority IMO) of "fans" that just need to feel like they're part of the "in" crowd...

Here's another comparison, maybe a better one than the hockey one. In a way, it's kind of like the kid who becomes an Apple fanboy and trashes everything Microsoft, despite not really knowing anything about computers, just because he want's so hard to be accepted by the Apple clique. There are certainly good reasons to have Apples, and certainly good people who own them, but there is also that element of people who just want to be part of the group, and are total asses to anyone who isn't in.

Again, I'm not generalizing or making all-inclusive statements, but I do feel that it is a majority of the white-American fans (yeah, I went there!) that fit into this - just based on my experiences working women's WC, CONCACAF, and international exhibition games (ManU, FCB, Real Madrid, etc.) and also being at a Philadelphia Union promotional event.

[Saintsfan]

I don't know that soccer will ever gain anything other than significant minority status in the US. Which is fine. America has plenty of sports to enjoy as part of its culture, to expect another sport to gain big time foothold. I think that BBTV makes a good point, in that a lot of the current fanbase has yet to prove a lasting commitment to the game or their teams, and there is some evidence in history (for instance the NASL) that soccer can ride through periods of fashion but without then turning that into a more permanent period of growth.

[gosioux76]

By calling soccer "a sport nobody cares about," you came off sounding like the very real and all-too-vocal group of U.S. sports fans so threatened by their inability to understand the sport's appeal that they're left with only ridicule as a defense.

Wow, that may be one of the top 10 absurd things I've read on here.

I've worked at many soccer games, most recently a CONACACAF Gold-cup double-header. I've BSd with hundreds of soccer fans from all over the world, and all over our country. One thing I've noticed - fans of non-US teams (Honduras, Spain, Italy, etc. - people who either traveled here from there, or immigrated here) are more than happy to talk to anyone else about soccer, and explain the game, and help you understand what's happening and why a certain strategy is being employed, etc.

The American fans (for the most part, there's obviously exceptions) are the most arrogant and snobby fans I think I've ever encountered. As soon as they realize you don't "appreciate" soccer, they just act like you're inferior and unintelligent because you "can't understand" the beauty of the sport. It's like they have their little snobby club, and don't want anyone else to get in.

I talk to people and ask questions because I legitimately want to learn about the game, because frankly, I don't understand it and want to see what the rest of the world sees. My lack of understanding certainly isn't from a lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of experience and education. I've learned more about the game from a friend I made who is originally from Iran, than from any of the dozens of American-born fans that I know.

Again, I know that there are good American soccer fans who understand that to grow the sport, they need to be outgoing and accepting of those who aren't as versed as them. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that those people represent the minority.

I guess it's not that much different than hockey...

I appreciate your experience and, moreso, your willingness to try appreciating the game. And I agree, that to grow the sport you need to accept those not as savvy to the game. Nor do I profess to be fully understanding of the game or how it works. That wasn't my point.

Like you, I was a non-soccer-savvy sports fan who made an effort to understand what others saw in the game. But you can't seriously argue that there isn't a large element of fans out there that gleefully dismiss soccer as irrelevant, without making the same effort your or I have apparently made? The Jim Rome show for years has been exhibit A.

Even at ESPN, which thankfully is starting to seriously invest in the sport, writers find themselves responding to you-can't-seriously-like-soccer comments from readers. Consider this Bill Simmons mailbag column posted Friday:

Q: You don't like soccer. You are just bored because the Sox aren't that good, and football hasn't started. Also, you are trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer. You can't. Stop. Write a mailbag.

-- Chris, Wilmington, Del.

SG: What do you think I'm doing? By the way, "you're just trying to see if you can be influential enough to make other people like soccer" is my second favorite conspiracy about my summer crush on soccer behind "you're only writing about soccer because ESPN made you because they invested so much money in the World Cup."

So call me absurd. Call me a soccer snob. But don't begin telling me this "absurd" notion of a pervasive soccer-ridiculing element of U.S. fans isn't rooted in truth. Fans like yourself that are willing to understand the game are in a minority of their own.

(As a side note, I'm trying not to come off as a prick. I'm actually enjoying the debate.)

I still don't see how anyone is "threatened" by their "inability to understand". You're basically equating the mentality of non-soccer fans with (for lack of a better comparison) that of homophobes.

I think the ridicule has nothing to do with any of your points... I think that the ridicule is born out of the almost phony-devotion that a lot (not all) of Soccer fans show, almost like they're trying too hard.

I'm sure that the "good" and "true" fans of the sport probably aren't like this, but there certainly is a (visible majority IMO) of "fans" that just need to feel like they're part of the "in" crowd...

Here's another comparison, maybe a better one than the hockey one. In a way, it's kind of like the kid who becomes an Apple fanboy and trashes everything Microsoft, despite not really knowing anything about computers, just because he want's so hard to be accepted by the Apple clique. There are certainly good reasons to have Apples, and certainly good people who own them, but there is also that element of people who just want to be part of the group, and are total asses to anyone who isn't in.

Again, I'm not generalizing or making all-inclusive statements, but I do feel that it is a majority of the white-American fans (yeah, I went there!) that fit into this - just based on my experiences working women's WC, CONCACAF, and international exhibition games (ManU, FCB, Real Madrid, etc.) and also being at a Philadelphia Union promotional event.

I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to think that this undeniable scorn directed at soccer is the result of arrogant "white-American" fan boys. While I can appreciate your annoyance with that element, that fails to explain the equally large number of sports fan who treat soccer as third-rate because they just don't get how a game that can end 0-0 can possibly be entertaining. I stopped counting the number of times I've encountered that criticism from co-workers, friends, family, etc. At least their criticism is tepid compared to the talk radio blowhards of the world.

In my opinion, those fans are like that because they haven't bothered to spend time with the game and, as a result, have an "inability to understand the game." That's not my backhanded way of calling them stupid. I just see them as choosing to mock a sport without putting in an effort to understand it.

Frankly, I don't care if they ever do come to appreciate soccer. And I don't need to become part of same collective soccer-loving groupthink exercise you seem to think is so widespread. I'm happy to enjoy the game without it rising in popularity in this country. I could just do without it being treated as insignificant.

[BBTV]

Not everyone is entertained by the same thing. For some, no amount of strategy or chess-match quality can justify a 0-0 score. You specifically said that people ridicule because they feel threatened by their inability to understand. I'm just saying that they only ridicule because of the attitude of the fan boys. If not for them, I don't think there would be as much ridicule, just apathy. It has absolutely nothing with anyone feeling insecure about their cognitive abilities to understand a game.

[TFoA]

I mostly agree with BBtV on this argument.

The fanboys that hate on anybody else just for not getting into soccer is just as bad as the anti-soccer crowd that rails on it. There's definitely a decent-sized pocket of soccer fans who are arrogant and look down on anybody that doesn't like soccer in this country. I'm in the camp of "I very much enjoy soccer, but couldn't give two :censored:s if people "outside" of the sport cared or mocked it." I'm pretty sure that if I go to some other country and I'm watching the NFL, they're gonna mock that sport and treat as insignificant. But would I care? Hell naw, I enjoy it so who cares? It's different strokes for different folks.

[gosioux76]

Clearly we'll have to disagree on this.

Nobody is denying the presence of arrogant soccer fanboys. And I'll concede the point that critics aren't "threatened" by the sport. Perhaps that was my own "sweeping generalization" if you will.

But there is no way I'll ever believe that these antisoccer people in the world are there as some sort of countweight to soccer fan arrogance. That's bull****.

[illwauk]

Not everyone is entertained by the same thing. For some, no amount of strategy or chess-match quality can justify a 0-0 score. You specifically said that people ridicule because they feel threatened by their inability to understand. I'm just saying that they only ridicule because of the attitude of the fan boys. If not for them, I don't think there would be as much ridicule, just apathy. It has absolutely nothing with anyone feeling insecure about their cognitive abilities to understand a game.

I disagree. The fanboy masses are a relatively new thing where the "soccer is for lawn fairies" attitude has been around for as long as I can remember.

And this is from someone who overwhelmingly prefers the american version.

[xxjdm66]

So we all agree, the USMNT doesn't need a national stadium. Right?

Now some one should open another thread, Hockey or Soccer which sport is going to be overtaken first in the USA?