GFB Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 But Montana only retired in 1994, so he has played in the last 20 years, and therefore still counts.Technically, fine. He missed all of '91, most of '92, and I try to block out the Kansas City years. You want to say last 15 years? Fine. Here's how I would divide the "Modern Era" QBs.Tier 1Steve YoungJohn ElwayTom BradyTier 2Brett FavreDan MarinoPeyton ManningTroy Aikman (Simply because of the three Super Bowls. Hate the guy) Too early to call, but will be there in timeBen RoethlisbergerDrew Brees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 But Montana only retired in 1994, so he has played in the last 20 years, and therefore still counts.Technically, fine. He missed all of '91, most of '92, and I try to block out the Kansas City years. You want to say last 15 years? Fine. Here's how I would divide the "Modern Era" QBs.Tier 1Steve YoungJohn ElwayTom BradyTier 2Brett FavreDan MarinoPeyton ManningTroy Aikman (Simply because of the three Super Bowls. Hate the guy) Too early to call, but will be there in timeBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesNo Tom Brady?EDIT: Nevermind, I missed your other post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMac12 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Apparently last nights game passed the 83 finale of MASH as the most watched tv program in historyhttp://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Super-Bowl-most-watched-TV-program-in-history-020810Wow! Who knew a football game would knock off M*A*S*H finale as the most watch program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAD! Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Apparently last nights game passed the 83 finale of MASH as the most watched tv program in historyhttp://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Super-Bowl-most-watched-TV-program-in-history-020810Wow! Who knew a football game would knock off M*A*S*H finale as the most watch program?I'm surprised it has taken this long for that to happen. I saw, I came, I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 But Montana only retired in 1994, so he has played in the last 20 years, and therefore still counts.Technically, fine. He missed all of '91, most of '92, and I try to block out the Kansas City years. You want to say last 15 years? Fine. Here's how I would divide the "Modern Era" QBs.Tier 1Steve YoungJohn ElwayTom BradyTier 2Brett FavreDan MarinoPeyton ManningTroy Aikman (Simply because of the three Super Bowls. Hate the guy) Too early to call, but will be there in timeBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesIf you include Elway and Young in your "Tier One", you have to include Manning. He was a better QB on the field than them and has equivalent postseason credentials. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 But Montana only retired in 1994, so he has played in the last 20 years, and therefore still counts.Technically, fine. He missed all of '91, most of '92, and I try to block out the Kansas City years. You want to say last 15 years? Fine. Here's how I would divide the "Modern Era" QBs.Tier 1Steve YoungJohn ElwayTom BradyTier 2Brett FavreDan MarinoPeyton ManningTroy Aikman (Simply because of the three Super Bowls. Hate the guy) Too early to call, but will be there in timeBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesIf you include Elway and Young in your "Tier One", you have to include Manning. He was a better QB on the field than them and has equivalent postseason credentials.Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Manning's body of work stacks up quite well with that. Additionally, as you mentioned with Young, if it wasn't for America's Patriots, Manning likely would also have another ring or two by now. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Peyton Manning's a way better quarterback than Joe Montana. You're all high. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Manning's body of work stacks up quite well with that. Additionally, as you mentioned with Young, if it wasn't for America's Patriots, Manning likely would also have another ring or two by now.True, but I think there is a difference between "not able to win the big one" and being a "playoff choke artist". If you're "not able to win the big one", then at least you got there and you were either outmatched (as in Elway's case up until '97) or the ball just bounced the wrong way.And you could also say that without Rex Grossman, Manning wouldn't have any rings. Do you think he'd beat the McNabb/TO Eagles? Would the Colts have beat the Cardinals last year? Or how about the Greatest Show on Turf? In fact, look at the teams the Colts lost to in the playoffs since the '03 season. They've lost to only 4 QBs... do you know who they are?Tom BradyBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesPhillip RiversMy point is that when #18 has had to go head to toe with a great QB, 9/10 he comes out on the short side. Sure, he can beat up on the Matt Schaub, David Garrard, and Derek Anderson's of the world, but to be a truly elite quarterback, you need to beat the best WHEN IT MATTERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Manning's Super Bowl win had more to do with easily carving up a stupidly unwavering Tampa 2 defense than Rex Grossman. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Exactly. Elway's playoff record was 7-7 entering the final two seasons of his career. Eventhough Manning is also .500 for his career in the playoffs thus far, the guy's already has one Super Bowl ring in his back pocket, one less than Elway, with at least 5 more years left in the tank. Plus, Manning has won FOUR Most Valuable Player awards. That alone puts him in the top tier of all-time NFL quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Exactly. Elway's playoff record was 7-7 entering the final two seasons of his career. Eventhough Manning is also .500 for his career in the playoffs thus far, the guy's already has one Super Bowl ring in his back pocket, one less than Elway, with at least 5 more years left in the tank. Plus, Manning has won FOUR Most Valuable Player awards. That alone puts him in the top tier of all-time NFL quarterbacks.Then let him prove me wrong. Did I not say he was one of the best quarterback of the last 20 years? Is being in the same company as Favre, Marino, and Aikman really that demeaning to the great Peyton Manning? All I said was as of right now, he is not in the most elite of the elite quarterbacks, and I stand by it. He may be the best regular-season quarterback of all-time. But if I have a playoff or championship game to win, I am going with the Brady, Elway, and Young before I think about Manning. Winning in the playoffs is what makes a QB special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Exactly. Elway's playoff record was 7-7 entering the final two seasons of his career. Eventhough Manning is also .500 for his career in the playoffs thus far, the guy's already has one Super Bowl ring in his back pocket, one less than Elway, with at least 5 more years left in the tank. Plus, Manning has won FOUR Most Valuable Player awards. That alone puts him in the top tier of all-time NFL quarterbacks.Then let him prove me wrong. Did I not say he was one of the best quarterback of the last 20 years? Is being in the same company as Favre, Marino, and Aikman really that demeaning to the great Peyton Manning? All I said was as of right now, he is not in the most elite of the elite quarterbacks, and I stand by it. He may be the best regular-season quarterback of all-time. But if I have a playoff or championship game to win, I am going with the Brady, Elway, and Young before I think about Manning. Winning in the playoffs is what makes a QB special.So you're placing Steve Young in your group of elite quarterbacks, yet you're leaving out Manning?? Young's NFL career started off miserable, resorted to playing backup for a handful of years, before getting it together for about seven good seasons and winning ONE Super Bowl -- the same amount of Super Bowl wins as Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Manning's body of work stacks up quite well with that. Additionally, as you mentioned with Young, if it wasn't for America's Patriots, Manning likely would also have another ring or two by now.True, but I think there is a difference between "not able to win the big one" and being a "playoff choke artist". If you're "not able to win the big one", then at least you got there and you were either outmatched (as in Elway's case up until '97) or the ball just bounced the wrong way.And you could also say that without Rex Grossman, Manning wouldn't have any rings. Do you think he'd beat the McNabb/TO Eagles? Would the Colts have beat the Cardinals last year? Or how about the Greatest Show on Turf? In fact, look at the teams the Colts lost to in the playoffs since the '03 season. They've lost to only 4 QBs... do you know who they are?Tom BradyBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesPhillip RiversMy point is that when #18 has had to go head to toe with a great QB, 9/10 he comes out on the short side. Sure, he can beat up on the Matt Schaub, David Garrard, and Derek Anderson's of the world, but to be a truly elite quarterback, you need to beat the best WHEN IT MATTERS.Where's Elway's victory over the best then? 1 over the Gunslinger? Certainly not Kosar, right? Additionally, while Elway's teams may have been outmatched, Elway didn't exactly do a whole lot to improve matters in 2 of those 3 losses. Is Young's 1 shining moment a lone victory over Aikman, followed by being put to the sword in a few playoffs by the Gunslinger?The 2007 AFC Championship looks pretty good compared to those runs.In addition to staggering offensive production, Manning's Colts have been in the playoffs 10 of the last 11 seasons and for 8 years running. In a period of relative parity and short-lived franchise successes for the league, that is incredible (The only teams to not make the playoffs since the start of the 8 year run in 2002 are Detroit, Houston, and Buffalo). The only teams that even approach this run, although they still fall short, are Philadelphia and New England. The one constant for the Colts in this run is Manning. He's in Tier 1 for the Post-Montana NFL. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Exactly. Elway's playoff record was 7-7 entering the final two seasons of his career. Eventhough Manning is also .500 for his career in the playoffs thus far, the guy's already has one Super Bowl ring in his back pocket, one less than Elway, with at least 5 more years left in the tank. Plus, Manning has won FOUR Most Valuable Player awards. That alone puts him in the top tier of all-time NFL quarterbacks.Then let him prove me wrong. Did I not say he was one of the best quarterback of the last 20 years? Is being in the same company as Favre, Marino, and Aikman really that demeaning to the great Peyton Manning? All I said was as of right now, he is not in the most elite of the elite quarterbacks, and I stand by it. He may be the best regular-season quarterback of all-time. But if I have a playoff or championship game to win, I am going with the Brady, Elway, and Young before I think about Manning. Winning in the playoffs is what makes a QB special.How can you place Steve Young in your group of elite quarterbacks, and leave out Manning? Young's NFL career started off miserable, resorted to playing backup for a handful of years, before getting it together for about seven good seasons and winning ONE Super Bowl -- the same amount of Super Bowl wins as Peyton Manning.Hey. It's my list. I could have Doug Flutie in there if I wanted to. But if you scroll up a few posts, I admit that maybe Steve Young is a little shaky, but he grades out in my list because:1) Playoffs >>> Regular Season2) He played backup to (IMO) the best quarterback of all-time in Joe Montana... If anyone else was there, Steve Young would have been the leading all those Super Bowl teams. (I know your feelings about Joe Montana, so just play along)3) The early 90's Cowboys were so good, it wasn't fair.You could make the argument that Steve Young was "cheated" out of 5-6 Super Bowl appearances. But in his one appearance, he finally beat those Cowboys and won his Super Bowl.EDIT: I was using this list... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4785812 I see now that it is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hey. It's my list. I could have Doug Flutie in there if I wanted to. But if you scroll up a few posts, I admit that maybe Steve Young is a little shaky, but he grades out in my list because:1) Playoffs >>> Regular Season2) He played backup to (IMO) the best quarterback of all-time in Joe Montana... If anyone else was there, Steve Young would have been the leading all those Super Bowl teams. (I know your feelings about Joe Montana, so just play along)3) The early 90's Cowboys were so good, it wasn't fair.You could make the argument that Steve Young was "cheated" out of 5-6 Super Bowl appearances. But in his one appearance, he finally beat those Cowboys and won his Super Bowl.Manning didn't earn his. The road to his Super Bowl went through:Trent GreenSteve McNairRex GrossmanYou're telling me that Super Bowl wasn't handed to him on a silver platter? In my mind, my list, that Super Bowl doesn't even count.You're missing a step in that run. Here's how his (QB) road to the Super Bowl actually went.Trent GreenSteve McNairTom mutha ing BradyRex Grossman.Additionally, he helped lead one of the biggest comebacks in NFL playoff history in that bolded game. He earned his ring.To your other scoring points, playoff may be important, but getting there is half the struggle. Neither Elway nor Young have been as proficient at that point.Point two: Perhaps. But some of those playoff wins were near-enough run that I would make no guarantees.Point three: So were the early 2000s Patriots.EDIT in response do other edit:Damn, Bristol actually pulled that crap? I wonder what their "Patriots playoff history" actually looks like. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Umm, no. He's not even close to Elway. Elway's career playoff record: 14-7 Lead Broncos to five Super Bowls, two wins.Young's career playoff record: 8-6 Lead 49ers to one Super Bowl win.Peyton's career playoff record: 9-9Lead Colts to two Super Bowls, one win (over Rex Grossman )Add in Peyton's track record of choking in the playoffs and it just isn't enough for me to put him in that top tier YET. Right now, IMO he is Dan Marino on a better team who got lucky against a weak opponent in a Super Bowl. Obviously he has a great shot to win one or two more Super Bowls, but unless he can break his stereotype of being a choker, then I can't put him in that top tier category.... and maybe Steve Young isn't as rock solid of a Tier #1 candidate as I always thought, but if it wasn't for America's Cowboys, he would have won one to three more Super Bowls.Elway had quite the reputation for "not being able to win the big one" prior to Terrell Davis' emergence in 1997-1998. Note the reaction after the 1996 Divisional playoff loss to the Jaguars. Manning's body of work stacks up quite well with that. Additionally, as you mentioned with Young, if it wasn't for America's Patriots, Manning likely would also have another ring or two by now.True, but I think there is a difference between "not able to win the big one" and being a "playoff choke artist". If you're "not able to win the big one", then at least you got there and you were either outmatched (as in Elway's case up until '97) or the ball just bounced the wrong way.And you could also say that without Rex Grossman, Manning wouldn't have any rings. Do you think he'd beat the McNabb/TO Eagles? Would the Colts have beat the Cardinals last year? Or how about the Greatest Show on Turf? In fact, look at the teams the Colts lost to in the playoffs since the '03 season. They've lost to only 4 QBs... do you know who they are?Tom BradyBen RoethlisbergerDrew BreesPhillip RiversMy point is that when #18 has had to go head to toe with a great QB, 9/10 he comes out on the short side. Sure, he can beat up on the Matt Schaub, David Garrard, and Derek Anderson's of the world, but to be a truly elite quarterback, you need to beat the best WHEN IT MATTERS.Where's Elway's victory over the best then? 1 over the Gunslinger? Certainly not Kosar, right? Additionally, while Elway's teams may have been outmatched, Elway didn't exactly do a whole lot to improve matters in 2 of those 3 losses. Is Young's 1 shining moment a lone victory over Aikman, followed by being put to the sword in a few playoffs by the Gunslinger?The 2007 AFC Championship looks pretty good compared to those runs.In addition to staggering offensive production, Manning's Colts have been in the playoffs 10 of the last 11 seasons and for 8 years running. In a period of relative parity and short-lived franchise successes for the league, that is incredible (The only teams to not make the playoffs since the start of the 8 year run in 2002 are Detroit, Houston, and Buffalo). The only teams that even approach this run, although they still fall short, are Philadelphia and New England. The one constant for the Colts in this run is Manning. He's in Tier 1 for the Post-Montana NFL.Manning has had only two worthwhile playoff wins in his career, both coming in 2007 (the Super Bowl and the 38-34 comeback). I'm sorry, but show me another worthwhile victory has had outside of that one year? As I said before, Young gets the free pass for unique circumstances. Elway gets the pass because he got his team to the Super Bowl 5 times. Even as I think about it, Jim Kelly should at be Tier #2 because of his playoff accolades. Manning has a little more work to do before I grant him all-time elite status. He's an all-time great, just not all-time elite yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFB Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 EDIT in response do other edit:Damn, Bristol actually pulled that crap? I wonder what their "Patriots playoff history" actually looks like.Yeah, sorry about that... I thought ESPN was about as factual as they came with that kind of stuff. christ on a cracker quarterbacks don't even "go through" other quarterbacksOf course not. But it sure makes defeating another team a whole helluva lot harder when they actually have a QB worth a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 christ on a cracker quarterbacks don't even "go through" other quarterbacks ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 The following is a complete list of NFL quarterbacks who have taken teams to the playoffs 8 consecutive seasons, besides Manning.Deathbringer JoeSome dumbass who couldn't spell "Cat" if you spotted him a couple of letters.*crickets*The following is a complete list of NFL quarterbacks who have taken teams to the playoffs 10 out of 11 seasons, besides Manning.*crickets* On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.