Cleveland Cavaliers

[Lights Out]

Are you planning on working in my personal favorite Cavs identity, the 1994 logo?

[BBTV]

You should tone down your watermark.

[ESTONES6]

You should tone down your watermark.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

As for the Basket logo... I have tried to avoid that era because i hated it... but the CAVS logo was what was going to tie into that era.

[BBTV]

You should tone down your watermark.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

As for the Basket logo... I have tried to avoid that era because i hated it... but the CAVS logo was what was going to tie into that era.

Well, as strong as you have it, it kinda is part of the concept. It is a little distracting, and takes away from your presentation.

Seriously - you think it's easy to evaluate a script that has full-sized words running right through it? I get that that's probably how it's done in Cleveland, and most of us just wouldn't understand because it's different there, but in all seriousness, it would make it easier to evaluate if it was a much more transparent. Especially once you start getting into uniforms or more original concepts.

[ESTONES6]

You should tone down your watermark.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

As for the Basket logo... I have tried to avoid that era because i hated it... but the CAVS logo was what was going to tie into that era.

Well, as strong as you have it, it kinda is part of the concept. It is a little distracting, and takes away from your presentation.

Seriously - you think it's easy to evaluate a script that has full-sized words running right through it? I get that that's probably how it's done in Cleveland, and most of us just wouldn't understand because it's different there, but in all seriousness, it would make it easier to evaluate if it was a much more transparent. Especially once you start getting into uniforms or more original concepts.

I don't understand why you can't just offer constructive criticism instead of being a dick to all Cleveland fans? I mean... grow up man... it gets old.

[bohob]

You should tone down your watermark.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

As for the Basket logo... I have tried to avoid that era because i hated it... but the CAVS logo was what was going to tie into that era.

Well, as strong as you have it, it kinda is part of the concept. It is a little distracting, and takes away from your presentation.

Seriously - you think it's easy to evaluate a script that has full-sized words running right through it? I get that that's probably how it's done in Cleveland, and most of us just wouldn't understand because it's different there, but in all seriousness, it would make it easier to evaluate if it was a much more transparent. Especially once you start getting into uniforms or more original concepts.

I don't understand why you can't just offer constructive criticism instead of being a dick to all Cleveland fans? I mean... grow up man... it gets old.

Yeah, maybe he was a little crass, but his criticism regarding the watermark is 100% valid. If you want people to evaluate your work, don't put barriers in their ability to see it.

[BBTV]

I'm not a dick to all Cleveland fans. I don't care about Cleveland. I could live my whole life without needing to know where Cleveland is on a map. I'm a dick to the insecure and defensive Cleveland fans, which just so happens to be the majority of them. Certainly not all, but the majority.

Did I not give you constructive criticism about your NOB font? I even took the time to give you the reasoning for my suggestion. Recommending that you tone down the watermark would also be considered constructive, because doing so would give a cleaner look to your concept, and make it easier to evaluate. You didn't acknowledge the first bit of cc, (which is fine - you don't have to make every change that is suggested, but at least acknowledge it so it's not like we're wasting our time), and you respond like..., well, a bit of a baby when a second LEGITIMATE piece of cc is offered.

[ESTONES6]

I'm not a dick to all Cleveland fans. I don't care about Cleveland. I could live my whole life without needing to know where Cleveland is on a map. I'm a dick to the insecure and defensive Cleveland fans, which just so happens to be the majority of them. Certainly not all, but the majority.

Did I not give you constructive criticism about your NOB font? I even took the time to give you the reasoning for my suggestion. Recommending that you tone down the watermark would also be considered constructive, because doing so would give a cleaner look to your concept, and make it easier to evaluate. You didn't acknowledge the first bit of cc, (which is fine - you don't have to make every change that is suggested, but at least acknowledge it so it's not like we're wasting our time), and you respond like..., well, a bit of a baby when a second LEGITIMATE piece of cc is offered.

Yes, I did acknowledge it... but it gets old man. You talk stuff and run your mouth ever since i joined the board a couple months ago... just get over it man. Don't be such a to people. You always try to play it off like you don't... but it just gets old. Stop acting your shoe size.

[BBTV]

No, you didn't acknowledge it. Did I "run my mouth" (and by mouth, I assume you mean fingers) when I offered you my thoughts on your fonts? Did I run my mouth when I offered you my thoughts on your watermark? You take criticism an opposing viewpoints a little too personally.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

Is that the way to respond to someone who up to this point had only offered you suggestions with the motivation of seeing you improve your work?

[cjzilligen]

AS FAR AS THE CONCEPT GOES, that watermark does need to be toned down alot. Really destracting. The numbers look better, but I dont care for the NOB font, I think the numbers and lettering should have some correlation to each other. Maybe arch the nameplate so that the letterns arent all on the same plane, but instead curve on a line. NOB could be bigger as well now that I think about it.

Other than that, it's actually coming together nicely.

[ESTONES6]

No, you didn't acknowledge it. Did I "run my mouth" (and by mouth, I assume you mean fingers) when I offered you my thoughts on your fonts? Did I run my mouth when I offered you my thoughts on your watermark? You take criticism an opposing viewpoints a little too personally.

Don't really care about the water mark right now, as it is NOT part of the concept, is it?

Is that the way to respond to someone who up to this point had only offered you suggestions with the motivation of seeing you improve your work?

Perfect example: run my mouth (you mean my fingers) really? You honestly are going to sit there and ***type*** like you aren't acting like a 12 year old? I heard those same things in 8th grade. The font criticism was legit. But the rest of the time (including how you have responded to me numerous times in the past) is just getting old man. Honestly... grow up.

[BBTV]

Funny, someone just offered you the exact same CC that I did. Actually, two people did. Whatever you do, please don't send me a PM crying to me like others have. It really breaks my heart to read those things.

To show you that I'm big enough to forgive you and look past all of this, I'll even take the time to offer you the CC you specifically requested.

IMO, the serifed-block wordmark doesn't work well with the curvy / detailed sword. It's an awkward juxtaposition of styles - you have a basic (yet classic) 60s-era block+serif, but a sword with shadows and smooth curves, rendered in a very contemporary fashion. Read what I said about your NOBs - decide what you want to be the dominant element here.

Is it the wordmark? It probably should be. If so, you don't want anything really upstaging it, and the sword is certainly more dramatic than the letters, and really takes away from it (with it's details, it's just more "interesting", and takes your eye.) I'm not sure if there's a way to "dumb down" the sword, but that's what would have to be done in order to make it work with that lettering.

Is it the sword? It shouldn't be. But, if it is, you can still pull this off, but you need to make the font even plainer - no outlines, smaller, maybe even somehow integrated with the sword - underneath the blade, wrapped in the color of an outline (picture the whole thing as a patch, with the base color being the same color as the outer-most outline. It doesn't matter - don't do this.

Is it both? That's also fine. Maybe even preferred. If that's the case though, while they don't need to be the exact same style (it's tough with letters and images), they should be closer IMO. The CAVS should be rounder, and even if it doesn't have shading or anything like that, I think that the base color and outline should match the sword. It's really the handle of the sword which is ruining this for me - it's just too different from the letters.

Just my opinion. I'm not a designer, but I like to think I have sound reasoning behind my advice. Of course, it's subjective, and not a science.

You're welcome.

[ESTONES6]

Funny, someone just offered you the exact same CC that I did. Actually, two people did. Whatever you do, please don't send me a PM crying to me like others have. It really breaks my heart to read those things.

To show you that I'm big enough to forgive you and look past all of this, I'll even take the time to offer you the CC you specifically requested.

IMO, the serifed-block wordmark doesn't work well with the curvy / detailed sword. It's an awkward juxtaposition of styles - you have a basic (yet classic) 60s-era block+serif, but a sword with shadows and smooth curves, rendered in a very contemporary fashion. Read what I said about your NOBs - decide what you want to be the dominant element here.

Is it the wordmark? It probably should be. If so, you don't want anything really upstaging it, and the sword is certainly more dramatic than the letters, and really takes away from it (with it's details, it's just more "interesting", and takes your eye.) I'm not sure if there's a way to "dumb down" the sword, but that's what would have to be done in order to make it work with that lettering.

Is it the sword? It shouldn't be. But, if it is, you can still pull this off, but you need to make the font even plainer - no outlines, smaller, maybe even somehow integrated with the sword - underneath the blade, wrapped in the color of an outline (picture the whole thing as a patch, with the base color being the same color as the outer-most outline. It doesn't matter - don't do this.

Is it both? That's also fine. Maybe even preferred. If that's the case though, while they don't need to be the exact same style (it's tough with letters and images), they should be closer IMO. The CAVS should be rounder, and even if it doesn't have shading or anything like that, I think that the base color and outline should match the sword. It's really the handle of the sword which is ruining this for me - it's just too different from the letters.

Just my opinion. I'm not a designer, but I like to think I have sound reasoning behind my advice. Of course, it's subjective, and not a science.

You're welcome.

I know CJZ said the same thing about the water mark, but again... that is not my main concern. Notice how he said it a calm way and not like a pretentious ---. Anyway...

As for you CC. THANK YOU! As i stated in my OP, the premise behind this concept was to unite as many eras of the Cavs as possible. Using the current word mark on the front as well as the sword may seem like a conflict of style with the varsity, serif style CAVS, C, and C w/ Sword... I understand that. I don't see this as too much of a problem because there are teams that have a few different fonts in their logos and uniforms:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/6/228/full/52byr2gfrb1y86g8qvf1u0a8m.gif

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/6/228/full/434.gif

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/6/228/full/0icn2sxk3ai2gmfeig44nne0c.gif

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/6/228/full/438.gif

I actually like the idea of have 2 different style fonts. I think it adds a little more character, but I understand where some people see a problem with it in their personal taste.

As for the NOB and classic number style... Again, I don't see an issue. Mainly because it's the back of the uniform. There are 2 types of people who pay attention to the back of the jersey and would want 1 element more dominant than the other: 1.) fans buying jerseys - they want to display the name of the player and 2.) statisticians so they can keep track of stats. The reason I don't feel the need to please those 2 sets of people are this: statisticians are close enough to the floor where they can see and the only time fans would be showing of a jersey is in a setting where people are close enough to read and see both elements equally.

I will take your advise on moving the CAVS text closer together. I kind of the think the handle of the sword is too long and the blade is too short. It seems like it is short and stocky. That might be one way to help lessen the impact of the sword.

Thank you for giving CC that pertains to the concept. And thank you for not being childish about it. It benefits everyone when you offer CC in a calm way and are actually trying to help the concept rather than belittle it.

[BBTV]

I know CJZ said the same thing about the water mark, but again... that is not my main concern. Notice how he said it a calm way and not like a pretentious ---. Anyway...

You should tone down your watermark.

I am sincerely sorry if you found that not to be calm, and if it came off like I was a pretentions ---. I'll be sure to work on my wording so as not to offend. Same goes for the first bit of CC I gave you. I think I'm going to go add some divisions to my latest reel line mint proposal.

Edit: I can't let this one go.

actually trying to help the concept rather than belittle it.

Please point out ANY instance of me belittling your concept. Just ONE. If you're that sensitive, to the point where you're imagining things, then I'm not sure how anyone can help you. I'll belittle people all day long if they display such drastic hyper sensitivity. But I've NEVER belittled a concept that someone put legitimate work in to. Never in my 6 years of being on this board.

[insert warning from Lee here]

[knnhrvy16]

How about you all stop your arguing, build a bridge, and get over it? Honestly.....

As for the concept, BBTV is right, the watermark is a little too dominant. The concept is hiding behind it and is quite hard to see, so it is hard to evaluate. But from what I CAN see, it's not bad. My only problem is the name on the back, I think if it were block font it would look much better. I want to wait for the uniforms to make a full evaluation, however. Keep it coming!

[ESTONES6]

Alright. It has been a while since I updated this concept (my first and only, so far). I took a lot of suggestions into account and have come up with the following update:

C with Sword logo set - For this, I change the sword, as per suggestion. I went with a little less wavy sword and carried the simple, throwback style through to it:

CAVS logo - My thoughts on the usage of this is 3-fold. The first is merchandise. Second is for on the court - underneath the basket, below the key. The third is for the front of the shorts, just above the draw strings:

This is just a modified NBA logo, inspired by the MLB style of using a teams' colors:

Last, and probably my most favorite is the ball logo. I think it is a pretty substantial change. First and foremost, I THINK i fixed the scaling issue. The C looks much better. I also changed out the sword styles. Last, I made a silhouette of the Cleveland skyline (go ahead, start cracking the jokes ) and made the EST 1970 stamped on the front. I took out the seems for two reasons: One, it flat out just didn't work with the new swords; two, I like the idea of the logo not necessarily implying basketball:

I would like some feedback on my development of the logo set, such as where I have improved and declined. C+C please. Thanks.

[ESTONES6]

Any C+C on the update?

[keynote]

In all seriousness, does Cleveland have an iconic enough skyline to merit inclusion in the logo? I could see if the city had a nationally-known landmark, like the space needle in Seattle or NYC's Empire State Building, but I think it's less compelling to include buildings that are only recognizable in silhouette by local residents.

Other than that, I like the color scheme and the layout of the skyline logo.

[BBTV]

Agreed about the skyline. There are only a few skylines that are "iconic" enough to be used in major-league logos (and even those are more just because there are a few "iconic" buildings rather than the whole skyline being "iconic".) Unfortunately, nobody outside of Cleveland would recognize a silhouette of the Cleveland skyline.

As for the C-Sword logo, it's a little to reminiscent of the Buffalo Sabers and Virginia Cavs logos. It's not bad, but would inevitably be called a take off of those two logos.

[jaha32]

the crossed swords remind me too much of the buffalo sabres in the circle... and i agree with the skyline comment above. i actually really really like the logo and look tha cavs have going with the ball/script/sword logo and dont think it needs improvement but thats just me