RARE Design

[Davidson]

this thread is a classic.

come on mac, you are playing devils advocate and you cant really belive most of that stuff?

your slightly odd resentment of people who dont wear shirts and ties (??!!) aside you do make

some good points though, i think it is important to make it easy to view work easily and quickly,

and i can understand the sentiment about sites that dont use standard interfaces, but this i think

the site says something about the people that work there and what they can do

and this is very important.

this stuff about 'the suits' or whatever you want to call them is partially true, but these days, as design

companies, we rarely have to deal with these people. i find that 9/10 times, i deal with the useless

layer of blubber created to span the gap between those in jeans and t-shirts and those in shirts and

ties. and i can tell you categorically that the :censored:wits i deal with in marketing love that kind of :censored:.

for reference, here is our site at work which i find reasonably easily navigable and i think shows off

our work to a good degree.

nb. i did not design it, nor did i build it and although there are no pictures of me on it i am 6'2 and

220 lb centre who played national provincial rugby in new zealand and NOBODY kicked my ass at school

or anywhere else, not that in any way effects my design ability.

http://mainframe.co.uk/

ps. ben i think your site is decent and not to tricky to navigate.

my only slight qualm might be that 'who' 'what' 'where' etc

seems a bit twee these days. and perhaps the windows could bounce

slightly less. its a little bit irritating waiting for it to stop each time.

the work is great tho. id love to be involved in something like that one

day. maybe some more of it on the front like the bloke says?

[Sterling84]

I'm not trying to pile on. Looks like RARE does some solid work across the board and I'm sure the new site will only help.

As an example though......one of my least favorite websites on earth.

Yes Men Corp

This is who did the new Admirals duds. That alone may deserve scorn but he delivered what they wanted. Tell me if you can quickly or easily determine what the heck this company does. I'm not even looking for work from them and I get fed up by the time the intro loads.

In its previous incarnation it had black text on black bg so you had to surf blind and it had a fake password enter movie that looked all "Bourne Identity" and made you think your PC was crashing.

THis, is the IMPROVEMENT on that.

I can't even find the Admirals in here or any work actually even done in Milwaukee.

[Mac the Knife]

Tell me if you can quickly or easily determine what the heck this company does. I'm not even looking for work from them and I get fed up by the time the intro loads.

And this is precisely the problem with a number of corporate web sites - their designers partake in a game of "hey, check this out... ain't it neat?," without focusing on the intent of the site - generating revenue, or at least projecting a positive, professional image of the company. This one should be used at schools as an example of how NOT to design a site. Within seconds I was trying to click around and "escape" to the "meat" of the site - only to find none.

And Davidson, I am playing devil's advocate, and what I personally believe doesn't really enter into it - I've simply been giving my opinion based on what I saw, coupled with what business people who are looking to partner with other companies tend to be turned off by. Me, personally, I think the site's fine, but I'm not looking at it from the perspective of someone who'll have reason to use Rare's services. If I were, I'd probably have given the site about 15 seconds of my time, then moved on to another company that could show me - immediately - what I wanted to know, i.e., what their capabilities are and why I should do business with them.

Actually, if anything I have a resentment of people who require their employees to wear shirts and ties (I personally haven't done so in years, and don't require it of my employees unless they're meeting with clients). I kind of feel sorry for people who have to wear them, to be honest. In Rare's case though, having all the guys wearing T-shirts doesn't project a really professional image - something that's fine when it comes to so-called "artistic types," (a term used by one of my clients once, so don't slam me for it; I just didn't know another way to put it). But when it comes to the rest of the company, it can in the minds of some detract from the professional image.

A standard interface isn't necessary per se, simply the ability for a potential client to get in, get what information they seek, and get out as quickly as they can - or to hang around and check things out if that's their desire. In the "YesMen" case that Sterling points out for example, and to (considerably) less extent the Rare site, you have to hunt around a while to find what you're looking for as a prospective client (in YesMen's case, you never do).

You're absolutely right in one respect - marketing halfwits love what I call "whiz-bang" stuff, which is why, generally speaking, most in-house marketing folks aren't worth a whole hell of a lot in my opinion, and thankfully its part of the reason my business does as well as it does. Let me give a typical example of how in-house marketing people can be utterly clueless:

• 1990 - Latrobe, Pennsylvania: A restauranteur friend of mine approaches me about his chain's current advertising campaign, lamenting that his 3-person marketing staff seems to be getting the most exposure possible for the least amount of money, but that its not producing results. I sit down with him and his marketing staff, where the marketing team shows me giant, colorful, full-page newspaper ads with the name of the restaurant ("Boomers!") going down the length of the page, with the addresses and phone numbers of their locations at the bottom. They show me local magazine ads that are spectacularly produced, again largely and colorfully proclaiming "Boomers!" several times, with the addresses and phone numbers at the bottom. They play for me their radio ad campaign (they didn't utilize TV), which consisted of 30 and 60 second spots of a well-defined baritone voice proclaiming "Boomers!, Boomers!, Boomers!" repeatedly throughout the track, with the address and phone number of one of their locations tagged on at the end.
  The marketing team, reviewing their own work, seemed downright full of themselves, thinking they had a top-notch ad campaign. Until I asked one question of the owners, then another of the staff.
  (1) To the owner: Is your ad campaign aimed at getting repeat business, or in bringing new people in the door? (he replied both, but moreso on bringing in new customers).
  (2) To the marketing team: What the hell is "Boomers!"? (to this they looked completely dumbstruck, thinking I was a blithering idiot... until I showed them the print ads and replayed the radio spots. Not once, in any of the ads that they had spent tens of thousands of dollars on, was it mentioned that Boomers! was a restaurant chain, what kind of food they served, or anything else that would pursuade a new potential customer to visit one of their locations - if you'd never heard of Boomers!, you didn't know what the hell it was before you saw/heard the ad, and you surely didn't have much more information about it afterward.
  

My point in telling that story is that often times, people within a company are often blinded by the "whiz-bang" appeal to the point where they lose sight of the goal of their ad campaign - putting customers in the building, asses in the seats (in the entertainment industry), or getting your company the leg up in getting that new client. This is particularly true when someone's directly involved in the project - if you point out fault, they feel you're pointing out fault in them, and they either get defensive or attack your credentials.

BTW, Mainframe's site is actually a good example of a mix between "whiz-bang," a demonstration of the company's capabilities that can be easily found, and further information should someone wish to discuss engaging the company. In looking at it from a potential client perspective I was able to find the key elements within about 20 seconds and in fewer than 3 clicks, which by most studies on web sites is about the length of time people spend visiting a web site unless there's something that grabs their interest. Well done!

[quantum]

The Mainframe site is what I had in mind in my original post.. A better experience in navigating to what is important to the visitor.

[howme]

"In the "YesMen" case that Sterling points out for example, and to (considerably) less extent the Rare site, you have to hunt around a while to find what you're looking for as a prospective client (in YesMen's case, you never do)."

one click and you are in RARE's portfolio, am i missing something here?

And BTW mad mac, you ARE presenting yourself as an expert even though you say you are not. But I mean what can you expect these days EVERYONE is an expert. Specially when they can hid behind the face of a message board. So that said I will say this in confidence, as you have had in the past.

1 - You are presenting yourself as a know it all (I know I've said this already but I am making a list now, Yup I even know how to make a list).

2 - You refuse to back up anything you say of your professional stature.

3 - You have been rude to people you don't even know - "roadside ho's" and "D&D geeks" and "should have been beat up in school", that is rude, ugly and uncalled for talking about a site that has nothing to do with those comments. Basically - you were being childish at this point (not very pinstripe business suit as you say you are)

4 - Yes thank you in the lesson of in-house designers, I do think allot of the time the mark is missed by these people and it is easy for them to get one sided and not look outside of what they are use too.

5 - 90% of what you are saying isn't even about what Ben posted, are you just trying to get people to talk to you?

6 - Unlike you I will back up my professional opinion, I am a designer, not just a graphic designer but a designer for furniture, jewelry, identities, applications, GUIs, sound, and websites. I've worked with the top sports groups: NIKE, ADIDAS, NFL, NBA, MLS. I've designed some things you prob see and and are familiar with everyday. Matter of fact my very first paying job was a global design for ADIDAS. And Yes I get butts in seats, phones to ring, and cash registers to ching. Which at the end of the day is what all my designs are going to do, but NOT by forsaking the meaning or integrity of the design. It must work for what and who it is intended for.

7 - I do however thank you for you actual comments on the site for Ben's sake. Not the crap lessons and rudeness you buttered on with your actual comments.

[cyandlux]

This kind of design in Misssississippiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!??????? Whoa pretty forward thinking for the back woods I'd say! Looks bitchin. Pop up menus suck....too much motion...I think Im gonna be sick.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

And Yes I get butts in seats, phones to ring, and cash registers to ching.

You must be either a professional wrestler, a professional boxer, a professional rapper, or just a douchebag.

Because only those four can say the above with a straight face.

[howme]

And Yes I get butts in seats, phones to ring, and cash registers to ching.

You must be either a professional wrestler, a professional boxer, a professional rapper, or just a douchebag.

Because only those four can say the above with a straight face.

HAHA, YES I am a professional rapper.

but no seriously how old are you people?

[pcgd]

Who designed the Texans logo? RARE or Verlander? I always thought it was Verlander...do they have an association with RARE?

Personally, I'm a big fan of the site. I really like the look. I don't find it all that hard to navigate...but a year of being in a web producing role working with developers has me hating flash now

I still like what it can do, but at times it frustrates me more than it used to when it comes to load times and such.

As far as the little bios...I always liked it. Gave a firm personality. I really like how GS Design in Milwaukee does thier's: www.gsdesign.com then click the GS and then Crew. (speaking of questionable navigation...) Awesome firm though if you ever want to check their stuff out. Absolutely the coolest office I've ever been in....I'm rambling...

[andrewharrington]

Who designed the Texans logo? RARE or Verlander? I always thought it was Verlander...do they have an association with RARE?

Personally, I'm a big fan of the site. I really like the look. I don't find it all that hard to navigate...but a year of being in a web producing role working with developers has me hating flash now

I still like what it can do, but at times it frustrates me more than it used to when it comes to load times and such.

As far as the little bios...I always liked it. Gave a firm personality. I really like how GS Design in Milwaukee does thier's: www.gsdesign.com then click the GS and then Crew. (speaking of questionable navigation...) Awesome firm though if you ever want to check their stuff out. Absolutely the coolest office I've ever been in....I'm rambling...

Mark Verlander did the Texans identity.

[howme]

Who designed the Texans logo? RARE or Verlander? I always thought it was Verlander...do they have an association with RARE?

Personally, I'm a big fan of the site. I really like the look. I don't find it all that hard to navigate...but a year of being in a web producing role working with developers has me hating flash now

I still like what it can do, but at times it frustrates me more than it used to when it comes to load times and such.

As far as the little bios...I always liked it. Gave a firm personality. I really like how GS Design in Milwaukee does thier's: www.gsdesign.com then click the GS and then Crew. (speaking of questionable navigation...) Awesome firm though if you ever want to check their stuff out. Absolutely the coolest office I've ever been in....I'm rambling...

Mark Verlander did the Texans identity.

actually.... RARE was hired by the Team, Mark was hired by the League. There were 5 firms working on the logo in Houston, which RARE was hired to lead. NFLP was who hired Mark and had him work on the marks as well. So it was a huge collaboration between all the firms. Verlander was only kept in the loop through NFL Properties therefore wasn't really aware of the other firms working with NFL Properties or the Team.