College of William & Mary unveils new logo

[m0sherman]

i actually was on the committe that designed the new logo and worked with pheonix. we never even actually thought about the m being and upside down w.

in fact, that never was even discussed so how people think we meant to do it is a question.

What? You expect people to believe that it didn't even occur to you all that your M looked like an upside-down W?

we do have one without the ampersand in the new design if you go to our website, its in a circle.

i'd be happy to answer any of the questions you guys have about the logo - we are proud of it and glad we chose it, especially over the 600 other designs pheonix presented us with.

Even after it has been universally trashed by every independent party?

[Gothamite]

mrpres2028, thank you for coming on board to defend the logo. Takes guts, and I appreciate it.

Still don't like your new logo. Care to show us some of the rejected possibilities, so we can better appreciate your process?

[xylograph]

mrpres2028, thank you for coming on board to defend the logo. Takes guts, and I appreciate it.

Still don't like your new logo. Care to show us some of the rejected possibilities, so we can better appreciate your process?

I would LOVE to see some of the 600 rejections.

[mantleisthebest7]

It took them 18 months to make THAT? Heck, i couldve whipped that up in 5 seconds on Microsoft Word. That sucks!

[powersurge]

It took them 18 months to make THAT? Heck, i couldve whipped that up in 5 seconds on Microsoft Word. That sucks!

You would have a great career designing corporate logos.

[gordie_delini]

please, at least use a professional software tool like MSPaint

[Drew22]

please, at least use a professional software tool like MSPaint

Whoa. I don't think designers would spend that much on software.

[andrewharrington]

What? You expect people to believe that it didn't even occur to you all that your M looked like an upside-down W?

Seriously. Further, the M not only looks like an upside down W, it is an upside down W. Take the W into Photoshop and flip it over for yourself. Identical. Let the record show that Phoenix Design Works, hereafter referred to as 'The Grunge of the Earth', blew smoke up a major American post-secondary institution's butt for a year and a half. The Grunge of the Earth ultimately presented the college with a decent letterform, did a little copy/paste, flipped it over and placed an ampersand in between the two , thus creating the aforementioned typographic monstrosity. The Grunge of the Earth then sold the dirt for much, much more than it is worth. I would like to apologize to The College of William & Mary on behalf of every individual working in the graphic design industry; I promise you the rest of us are not as bad at our jobs as The Grunge of the Earth. Godspeed.

[andrewharrington]

With all that said, I must say that this is one of the better collegiate pieces I've seen from Phoenix (I suppose there's a bright side to almost everything). Their work for professional teams is decent (I like some of the work they did for the Marlins, for example), but the work they do for colleges and universities is traditionally SO mediocre it makes me want to ask the people writing the checks, "Are you effing serious?"

[powersurge]

What? You expect people to believe that it didn't even occur to you all that your M looked like an upside-down W?

Seriously. Further, the M not only looks like an upside down W, it is an upside down W. Take the W into Photoshop and flip it over for yourself. Identical. Let the record show that Phoenix Design Works, hereafter referred to as 'The Grunge of the Earth', blew smoke up a major American post-secondary institution's butt for a year and a half. The Grunge of the Earth ultimately presented the college with a decent letterform, did a little copy/paste, flipped it over and placed an ampersand in between the two , thus creating the aforementioned typographic monstrosity. The Grunge of the Earth then sold the dirt for much, much more than it is worth. I would like to apologize to The College of William & Mary on behalf of every individual working in the graphic design industry; I promise you the rest of us are not as bad at our jobs as The Grunge of the Earth. Godspeed.

Geez....its not good but its in no way a monstrocity. I think some of you guys are way overblowing and overexaggerating this whole thing.

Its not THAT bad. I've seen and continue to see so many corporate logos each year that look a billion times worse than this. If you think this was done on MSPaint, then some of the logos I've seen in the last few years look like they were done on MSWord.

I also think we are harping on this whole upside down 'W' and 'M' idea. Yeah, its very obvious, and yeah its probably not executed very well. But honestly, how much better can it really get? We're talking about a univeristy that doesn't exactly scream progressive or modern as compared to EVERY other university in this country. The logo looks like any crap that any of the other two hundred or more universities east of the Mississippi have. They weren't exactly looking to stand out with their identity. This is evident by what they chose. So whats the big deal then? They chose to go with a bland, simple and all too common look. Sue them. Its their right to be mediocre. But to make this worse than it actually is....well, that doesn't make sense to me. If you want to tear apart this logo then you may as well tear apart some of the other hundreds of college identities that are just as bad if not worse.

I value the constructive criticism thats been present in this thread, and have had fun partaking in the discussions. But everything else seems excessive and pointless.

Again, its not great...its not good...buts its definately not a monstricity either.

[conesbeans]

Powersurge asks:

"But honestly, how much better can it really get?"

Pardon me for elaborating for Mr. Surge, but what he's asking is:

"What can really be done with a simple logotype made up of only typographic elements?"

Well, Marquette's recent brand identity update featured only typographic elements, but what they ended up with was infinitely better. It was strong, visually-pleasing and devoid of poor design choices -- none of which can be said about William & Mary's new logo.

Rickabaugh did that work for Marquette. If you use someone like that -- who understands core design principles and delivers professional work -- you will see how much better it really can get.

[m0sherman]

Geez....its not good but its in no way a monstrocity. I think some of you guys are way overblowing and overexaggerating this whole thing.

Its not THAT bad.

First, I should note that I'm a William and Mary alum. If it were another school that got stuck with this, I probably wouldn't really care either.

Second, the reason I'm worked up is that it's a clear downgrade from what the school has been using. Even simply removing the feathers from the old logo leaves us with a better result than what we have now. Since the NCAA ruling, the school has been pretty much using the following:

That's not great either, but it's miles better than what they've produced. That's what kills me - not that they produced a logo I'm not crazy about, but that they already had so many better looking marks to use - this is just change for the sake of change:

I can't find a better image of that last one, but the school ought to just use that cypher for everything. It's clean, classy and will always look good. It will go great on a diploma and midfield on the football field. What's not to like?

[andrewharrington]

Sue them. Its their right to be mediocre. But to make this worse than it actually is....well, that doesn't make sense to me. If you want to tear apart this logo then you may as well tear apart some of the other hundreds of college identities that are just as bad if not worse.

I may as well, and I do on a regular basis, but this thread is about the William & Mary identity, not the other hundreds of college identities that are just as bad if not worse.