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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. Thanks! I'd like to think that it compares well with the other Braves' road scripts and caps: Anyway, it's time to do the first flavor of the brewfest! MILWAUKEE BREWERS, PT. II - Easy Teasy This is one of the more obvious renaming concepts I've done. Let's assume that the renaming happened due to one of these reasons: 1. Fred Miller buys the team, wants to "local-ize" the identity by blending it with the American Association Brewers. 2. Assume the same as above, but sub in a later owner who wanted to remold the team in the image of the AA Brewers. 2. The team gets proactive with the "anti-Native American imagery without tribal consent" push in sports (during the 1980s/'90s - around the time the Atlanta Braves axed the Screaming Savage), and embraces the name of a historic club from the area. This is much the same thing that Marquette University did.1 So, the team would take their classic look and simply Brewer-ize it. Heck, the AA Brewers did just that in their final years in Milwaukee: So, my goal was to modernize this look while adding a few AA touches of my own. The roundel is off of my previous Brewers concept in this thread, as is the "Block M" and the Owgust logo. The most notable change comes from the color scheme, which is navy/red co-dominant with a few Athletic Gold accents. EDIT (1/25/2019): I've replaced the "M" in the "Milwaukee" script to match the latest update to the Braves concept, while also shortening the tail, per @Carolingian Steamroller's suggestion. The original is here. EDIT (11/8/2019): I've updated Owgust, per @Gothamite's suggestions. Here are the previous updates: Logo Sheet, Home and Road, and the dugout jacket. The home and road set doesn't have too much deviation from the Braves. The scripts gain tails that mimic the AA Brewers' classic script, while Owgust ousts the Screaming Savage (or would have back in the day). I used a powder blue-ish hue on the road uniform, if only to differentiate it a bit from the main set. The original image is here. The alternates feature both a regular navy jersey and a fauxback set. This guy merges the 1938-style cap (not exact), the 1936 home jersey's striping, and the "block M." It also features the 1914 Braves' sock stripes, for a small homage to the team's Boston heritage. The jacket is a bit of a logo swap of Braves jackets. The original image is here. While it's not all that different from what the Braves wear now, it's a demonstration of how the team could have changed things up with minimal effort. Next up, let's try a different flavor, one with a more local bent. 1Author's note: Marquette totally could have done what the Dubs did and just dump all of the Native American-themed logos. It's not like they were trotting out Willie F***ing Wampum at halftime (he'd since been succeeded by a blue muppet). Had they just shifted to an arrow/spear logo (not the Dubs' Thunder), it would've been fine. I still like Golden Eagles, while Gold is silly and Golden Avalanche doesn't pass the "will a 12 year-old laugh at it" test.
  2. But this is intentional. The Cowboys got that way through manufacturer changes and laziness.
  3. I’d argue for a jet plane alternate logo, for some use on the design. Other than that, the “NY oval” is in keeping with modernizing the look the Jets wore at their best (SB III). Who would you rather remember, Joe Namath or Rich Kotite? Let the jet-JETS stay dead.
  4. By your logic, what teams have “good” stripes?
  5. I’d never want the Giants to ressurect it as a primary, but it’d make a good Orange Friday road alternate:
  6. Agreed. A lot of it is about context. When the helmet is the focal point of the design, the other parts can take a back seat/be minimalist. My favorite example of this would be the Rams, whose best uniforms all used simple striping that drew attention towards the helmets. Like you said, Michigan also qualifies. Sometimes, the striping is the signature element. Look at the Packers, Bears, Chiefs, and Ohio State. They build their look around a standard striping pattern (with deviations drawing ire, FU Forrest Gregg). I’m sure daveindc would dismiss is as “tradition” (said pejoratively to get a rise out of some here), but it’s a credible way to build a football identity. The problem with the Jaguars is that they don’t have an overarching element that can justify plain jerseys. I love the helmet, but it’s just not enough. They’re fine uniforms that are utterly replaceable, which is all you can really expect from the Jaguars.
  7. It’s not dumb. The elephant symbol exists because John McGraw called the A’s a “white elephant” in the 1900s/‘10s. Connie Mack then turned it into a symbol of team pride. If the elephant isn’t white, then it misses the point. The current A’s have made the mistake of coloring it green, outside of a few BP caps.
  8. So, all stripes are bad? Is that really your argument?
  9. Thanks! I'm sure it'd be a much closer gap between the Braves and Packers than it is between the Brewers and Packers. Also, thank you for the corrections with the counties/freeways. Being a relatively recent transplant who rarely leaves Milwaukee proper, I'm still learning a lot of the local names. The star suggestion (included in the edited post) really improved the logo's look, as the all-white was a bit distracting. Thanks! Thanks, guys! Also, @CaptainKirkMN, that .gif was from October Sky (which I didn't realize at the time). I've never seen it, but the trailer made it look decent. Thanks! The reason I didn't include a 1957 throwback is that the primary set is just a modernized version of that look. Any throwback would be "too similar" for my tastes. Thanks. Aaron hitting #715 at County Stadium or playing for the Milwaukee team probably would have had even more of an impact than it did in Atlanta. He would have spent his whole career in one city (up to that point), so there may have been more fan connection. It would also mean that he'd have a block M on his Hall of Fame plaque, which he quite frankly should have on his real life plaque (that or the lowercase a). There are many cap redos I'd like to do for the Hall of Fame, such as Nolan Ryan with an Angels insignia, Early Wynn with a plain Wishbone C, and Jimmie Foxx with an A's logo. Thanks! I opted against creme home jerseys, if only because I prefer them as alternates/a Giants-only thing. I did try the BiG with a blue base color, but it didn't pop as much as did with a red base. The red base also has some historical basis, as the "715" cap logo was red with white and royal outlines. Thanks! I've redone the script to make it less jumbled by improving the kerning, further defining the letterforms, and adjusting the left vertical of the "M" and the middle vertical of the "w." Thanks again, @Carolingian Steamroller for work-shopping the update with me! Here is a comparison: I've updated the original post with the new images. Both parts of Part 2 will be up soon!
  10. Penn State football would look better by simply ceasing to exist, but I digress. Back on the Jaguars, I’m still underwhelmed by the overcorrection. It’s better than the old mess, but still misses out on interplay between the different colors in their color scheme. It’s fine. Not amazing or even good, just fine. Perfectly serviceable, which is good because the Jags will wind up wearing different uniforms in five years (hopefully keeping the gorgeous helmet), maybe with more ornamentation. This team is condemned to be trend-chasers.
  11. The Timberwolves kind of had a part in the North Stars moving, so it makes sense that people have eschewed them in favor of the team they drove out through arguments over concessions/adverts. There was also some stink about the arena having to be in St. Paul, but did the Twin Cities really need two arenas?
  12. Thome said it’s what he wanted. I’ll take his word that he didn’t want the vocal anti-Wahoo crowd on his case.
  13. I just want to see the Canucks’ old yellows playing the Sharks in green or light teal Seals-style throwbacks.
  14. I’d hardly say that it’s stupid. It’s the logo of the team most commonly identified with his career, and it removes any ambiguity about Wahoo “maybe” being on his cap. Doing something like a blank cap or a “can’t see the front” plaque could lead people to accuse him of being pro-Wahoo or anti-Cleveland for not acknowledging the team on his plaque. It’s also in Cleveland’s best interests to not have Wahoo in such a prominent place. It eases the phase-out. This also means that (maybe) Kenny Lofton and Omar Visquel will have blank caps or the “Cursive I.”
  15. Thanks! It took a while to get it "just right." I think I'm getting the hang of the "script construction" thing. The elephant doesn't look too bad on a green jersey: Thanks, guys! Indeed I am! They'll be the finale, because their "one and done" status means I can have a bit more fun with them. In their chronological place, I'll mock up the three Brewers prototypes from 1970. Thanks! I'm surprised Louisville didn't come up in expansion/relocation talks more often. I guess that part of is that having a team in Louisville would impact the radio/TV territory rights of the Reds, Cardinals, and both Chicago teams. I think that it might have been a success, but we can never really know. Thanks! While I put the elephant on the green (due to the red body cover on the elephant), it still makes for a fun jersey. I'm not really planning on doing any significant color changes for any A's relocations, especially since they will have all come after the "Swingin' A's" dynasty of the 1970s. The only real shift in colors I'll do is for Kansas City, if only because my scenario has Ewing Kauffman buying the team from Charlie O. Finley in the late-1960s and dropping Finley's trademark green/yellow. Anyway, it's time to join the Brave and the Bold! MILWAUKEE BRAVES, PT. I - Braving the Storm One of the more frustrating relocations in baseball history has to be the Braves vacating Milwaukee in favor of Atlanta. If one wonders why they left, here's the basic plot: 1. Lou Perini sells the team to a Chicago-based conglomerate, led by Bill Bartholomay, that pretty much intended to move the team to a bigger TV/population market. This was pretty much their intention from the start of buying the team. 2. Perini did some small things that were a bit off-putting, such as denying fans the ability to bring their own beer (mostly a BS reason, but a slight contributing factor) and raising ticket prices. 3. Perini and the Bartholomay group overreacted to attendance/profitability declines, which were in part due to trends throughout baseball and in part due to the team's perceived competitive decline (despite having a winning record in all of their Milwaukee seasons). In other words, ...except the Braves didn't really get that in Atlanta. Even with TBS giving them a big sphere of influence, Atlanta's f'ed up urban planning and other factors contributed to poor attendance, leading to their white flight to Cobb County. This information all comes from this excellent article by J. Gordon Hylton of the Marquette University Law School (the newer building on campus, right next to the interchange and behind Sensenbrenner Hall).1 The article and comments point out several way the relocation could have been averted, which include: 1. Perini sold the team to a Milwaukee group, with Bud Selig maybe being a member of an ownership consortium. 2. Perini keeps the now-unprofitable team, but manages to turn things around until the late-60s/early-70s run of contention. 3. Fred Miller doesn't die, and winds up buying the team. 4. The consortium stays in Milwaukee, bolstered by a piece of legislature. In his article, Hylton describes, "In 1965, as a last ditch effort, Wisconsin Senator William Proxmire introduced a bill in the Senate that would have required major league teams to pool all of their radio and television income in a way similar to the then current practice in the National Football League. The bill never got out of committee in the United States Senate, but such a requirement might have reduced the lure of relocating to new territory and perhaps kept the Braves in Milwaukee."2 If any one of these things happened, what would the modern Braves look like? This is pretty much a standard Braves concept (a slight tweak of their 1987 update), but with a few notable alterations. The primary logo is now the roundel, featuring the Wisconsin state outline, the "Block M," and a star pointing to Milwaukee's location. I figured that the team, like the Brewers, would use the Miller Valley location/I-43 proximity to lure people in throughout the state. People from places like Madison, Door County, Green Bay, and Shawano County would all be part of the team's net. A new "Block M' is the secondary, derived from the American Association Brewers' old monogram and given angled serifs akin to the Astros' slab-serif font. I figured that unlike the Atlanta Braves' 1987 update (which merged their last Boston/first Milwaukee uniforms with the cursive "A" cap), the Milwaukee Braves would have gone all-in on a logo similar to the 1957-style "Block M," (thanks @Gothamite, for championing the "correct Block M" cause) with a few adjustments to make it a bit more "modern." They did win a World Series in it, after all. The "Braves" script with a contrast-colored tomahawk is the tertiary. I did try to make a "Cursive M" for the team, but it really didn't look all that good from a distance. Unlike the "B" or the "A," it didn't read like an "M." Besides, I didn't want to throw out a link to the American Association Brewers/the '57 Braves that readily. EDIT: I added a gold star on the primary, per @NicDB's suggestion. It gives it a bit of a punch. Original Image is in the link, while the second image is here. The home and road uniforms feature all of my standard Braves trademarks, such as contrast-colored tomahawks and Northwestern Stripes on the socks. The road uniform bears a "Milwaukee" script with an extended tomahawk, inspired by @Ted Cunningham's work. It was a bit of a pain to get it to work, but I think it looks good. At the very least, it's a nice way to eliminate the team from the relocation roundelay. The Wilson Varsity font also receives a Packers-style "5," for that extra Wisconsin touch. EDIT: With the fantastic help of @Carolingian Steamroller, I've tweaked the "Milwaukee" script to feature better kerning and letter definition, while also adjusting the "M" to have a longer left stroke and bending the middle vertical on the "w" for better intra-letter spacing. Thanks, @Carolingian Steamroller! The original image is here. EDIT 2: With the additional help of @Gothamite, I've revised the "Milwaukee" script further to use the "M" from the American Association Brewers' road script. Here is a comparison between all three versions, as well as the second edition of the script. The alternates feature a red and a navy softball top, intended for limited use. Both use color swaps to preserve the contrast-colored tomahawk setup, and feature the primary on the sleeves. EDIT: Image tweaked to match the primary/road script improvements. The original image is in the link, along with the second rendering. The heritage alternates feature a "Cream City" uniform, with the "Block M" on its own. It's my little way of paying homage to the American Association Brewers' 1911-37 identity. The second one is a Milwaukee-ified version of the Braves' "715" set. I wanted to use a lowercase cursive "M" at first (which really didn't work), so I replaced it with (per @NicDB's inspired suggestion, thanks) the Ball-in-Glove. I double-outlined it and matched it to the coloration of the Braves' "lowercase a" insignia. EDIT: I fixed an outlining error on the creme uniform and updated the Milwaukee star to gold. The linked image is the first edition. The dugout jackets feature some notable tweaks from previous Braves concepts, such as the use of the primary as the back logo (a la a motorcycle jacket, and Milwaukee is the home of Harley-Davidson, a brand that is somehow both "the establishment" and "rebellious," an RCR observation). There is also a "715" jacket, which builds upon the period jacket (worn by Phil Niekro). EDIT: Both dugout jackets incorporate the graphics tweaks of the previous images. Here are the originals: Primary Jacket and 715 (715 Second Edition). The Braves wouldn't look all that different from their current counterparts, but there'd be a certain "Milwaukee-ifying" of their identity. Heck, had they stayed, they'd probably have more of an impact on the city's sporting culture than the Brewers. C+C is appreciated, as always! For the alternate take, lets brew up two distinct flavors of rebranding. 1J. Gordon Hylton, “Why Milwaukee Lost the Braves: Perspectives on Law and Culture From a Half-Century Later – Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog,” Academic Blog, Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog (blog), January 1, 2012, https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/01/01/why-milwaukee-lost-the-braves-perspectives-on-law-and-culture-from-a-half-century-later/comment-page-1/#comments. 2Ibid.
  16. Sure, it’s feeble, but I’m half-adding it. I also don’t believe in “kill football,” if you thought I did. Also, bringing up my home town’s name has a nice layer of passive-aggressiveness to it. There are are other outlets for physicality, like other sports, hiking/walking, etc.. Also, are you implying that I don’t understand the basic biological/physiological differences between genders? If so, I think I can see you angle.? You can learn that from any sport or academics. Sure, toxic masculinity happens in any sport, and the “bad ones” get media preference. Also, when you try to demean your “opposition” as “23 year old blogger in a cubicle” or “parent’s basement,” you’re just using poor rhetoric. I know I won’t change your mind, and that you won’t change mine or many of the other posters’ minds. Quite frankly, this has gotten boring.
  17. Oh, I’m fully aware that it’s a broad brush, and I’m also well aware of what Lee did after the war. He still fought for the Confederacy and what they stood for (the preservation of slavery). He’s the “get out of jail free card” that Lost Cause-ers point to make it look like they’re not honoring the Confederates’ pro-slavery attitude. When “the South will rise again” is a popular statement, when Confederate flags still fly far too often, and overt and casual racism thrives (be it violence or subtle discriminatory attitudes), it is best to suppress any Confederate imagery.
  18. You do realize there's another prominent member of The Alliance to Restore the Republic who looks a hell of a lot like Colonel Reb, right? General Jan Dodonna, seen here with Princess Leia and Creepio (the droid who was promised flesh).
  19. I’m just disappointed that he didn’t take the hegemonic masculinity/hypermasculinity train of thought from my post. I’d like to see a rebuttal about how football provides a healthy idea about manliness, which obviously includes brutish competitiveness, covering for your bros despite evidence against them, and trying to suppress any semblance of weakness and softness from the psyche (to the detriment of emotional balance, I might add). Like @dfwabel, @Gothamite, and @rams80 have pointed out, football culture (especially at high school/college levels) can be exceptionally toxic to healthy emotional development.
  20. That’s a bad analogy. Colonel Sanders was a fast food magnate who only held the title because the state of Kentucky handed it to him. Colonel Reb is a representation of a Confederate officer, and it’s kind of an appallingly bad idea to show anybody from the Confederacy in a positive light. It’s not “political correctness” to disown pro-Confederate (read: fighting to preserve slavery) symbols and imagery, it’s basic human decency. The “Lost Cause” mentality is stupid.
  21. SF Giants (NL West): Padres. I obviously don’t like the Dodgers one bit. The Diamondbacks are annoyingly good at beating the Giants (I don’t think I dislike a player as much as Paul Goldschmidt). The Rockies have an ugly color scheme and a stadium that constantly gives my team woes, so all that’s left is the Padres. They’re rarely a consistent threat, have a nice stadium, and have a bland/forgettable look. Besides, they’re Bochy’s old team and we kind of owe them for their 2010 collapse. Brewers (NL Central): Cubs/Pirates tie. The fans of theirs I’ve met are all pretty cool people, and I like their uniforms and stadiums. The Reds bother me because of their uniforms and for blowing the career of Joey Votto, while the Cardinals are the Cardinals. I lost all respect for the latter organization after the Oscar Taveras memorial patch and Mike Mattheny’s “Christians’ Day.” Sharks: LA Kings. Hear me out, I like this team because I like black/silver and because of the reverse sweep. They delightfully punched the Sharks in the gut, knocking the fanbase down a peg and legitimizing my negative feelings towards Thornton and the majority of the team. Warriors: Suns (I like purple/orange) Timbers (I did undergrad in Portland): Colorado, becausethe colors are fantastic. I don’t like the original Quakes or the Fake-Quakes. I don’t really watch enough American Football to say I’m a fan of any team.
  22. At the very least, I have some confidence that the Whalers MK II would be a success. Not an amazing amount, but some. Somehow, we’ve made it this long without bringing up Les Expos. They’ve become fairly popular these past few years, even though I doubt how successful they’d be as an expansion market. Sure, MLB did them dirty, but so did the Separatists, the city of Montréal (Le Stade Olympique/Éléphant Blanc), and the Blue Jays (claiming all of Southern Ontario). Fate didn’t work in their favor, and I’m not sure a new team would have more fortune (save for a VGK-level expansion draft).
  23. Translation: the pussies, sissies, and wussies want to kill my football! Football is a manly sport for real men who make for a strong, un-f----ty society! Who cares what studies say that clearly have an agenda to kill football, this magical man-making experience? You may try to couch your argument in your misinterpretation of a study or this "positive force" dogma, but you're not convincing anybody here.
  24. Yeah, I really like those uniforms. The team really should have kept them on as permanent throwbacks after having them as full-time alts in 2012. I like that it’s closer to their “primary” branding.
  25. That looks like the kind of guy whose best college memory was hazing new members of his frat, all the while desperately dodging academic probation.