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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay


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I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.

I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.

But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all.
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They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.

I don't think you should libel gay people by comparing them to corporate welfare.

:|

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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$860-985 million, which fair enough is probably close enough to a billion, especially the way these things go. But it's still on the cheaper end of new football stadium costs these days.

It's very cheap.

How much of the cost for eminent domain factored in? Levi's Stadium had seismic costs added into it and it cost $1.2B.

Speaking of which, that is another elephant in the room that probably should have been mentioned.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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I really hope so. But you never know with parts of the Midwest.

Besides, don't they know that bars are best spaced out evenly throughout the area, preferably in a 1-bar-for-every-1800-residents ratio? :P

And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that.

Unless we think the players will be spooked by a little earth-rolling, I don't think that's a major issue.

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I really hope so. But you never know with parts of the Midwest.

Much like fellow German-settled and beer-producing state Wisconsin, Missouri has some of the most permissive liquor laws in the nation. Don't worry.

And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that.

He may have been talking about New Madrid.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that.

He may have been talking about New Madrid.
Bingo.
On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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Is that really that much of a concern with the rest of the city's architecture? I doubt St. Louis is built to be earthquake-proof the way Los Angeles and San Francisco are.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.

I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.

But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all.

Laclede's was a shell of its former self the last time I was there.

That's another part of the plan I'm not a fan of... the stadium is an island in an ocean of parking lots. Not uncommon, I know, but move that thing to the edge of the space and it might feel more connected to Laclede's... or at least the casino that's adjacent to it. Push the lots to the opposite side.

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I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.

I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.

But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all.
Laclede's was a shell of its former self the last time I was there.

That's another part of the plan I'm not a fan of... the stadium is an island in an ocean of parking lots. Not uncommon, I know, but move that thing to the edge of the space and it might feel more connected to Laclede's... or at least the casino that's adjacent to it. Push the lots to the opposite side.

So in the last 20-25 years, downtown St. Louis has had..

1- A wet zone for booze at Lacledes Landing.

2- The addition of riverboat casinos*

and now the thought of an open air football stadium which will.directly compete with Busch Stadium III and its retail district.

*-St. Louis city DID get hurt from the start when casinos read the language of the bill. "Of the water" regarding to the rivers allowed suburban casinos with moats.

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Is that really that much of a concern with the rest of the city's architecture? I doubt St. Louis is built to be earthquake-proof the way Los Angeles and San Francisco are.

Yes it's not, but that doesn't make it any less of a concern.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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Eh, I think that's a reach. In terms of reinforcement against natural disasters, I'd be much more worried about flooding than earthquakes, and I'm sure that even without any significant architectural planning to this point, they thought of that before I did. I'd rank both threats of natural disasters behind "we don't have the money."

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result.

As for the "wet zones," I've never heard of that, and I'm a bit confused about what this talk is. St. Louis has bar districts throughout, and the landing is a relatively dead one. It used to be a bit livelier, it's always been under utilized. It hasn't been THE place to go since I've been even close to of age.

By the way, the biggest off-the-river casino development in the St. Louis area is the one right there by the stadium, Lumiere. St. Louis already had suburban casinos because of the Missouri river that moves westward into the suburbs. Aside from that, casinos are about as terrible at driving economic gain as stadiums are.

I don't really know what I'm responding to or what point I'm making, but just figured I'd chime in with all of that.

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The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result.

Oh, when it goes, (and it will go) St. Louis is :censored: ed. Pretty much every single geologic assessment on the fault zone agrees on both of those points.

As for St. Louis not earthquake proofing, I think I'll just leave another comment regarding the unsurprising lack of foresight possessed by St. Louis' civic leaders.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result.

As for the "wet zones," I've never heard of that, and I'm a bit confused about what this talk is. St. Louis has bar districts throughout, and the landing is a relatively dead one. It used to be a bit livelier, it's always been under utilized. It hasn't been THE place to go since I've been even close to of age.

By the way, the biggest off-the-river casino development in the St. Louis area is the one right there by the stadium, Lumiere. St. Louis already had suburban casinos because of the Missouri river that moves westward into the suburbs. Aside from that, casinos are about as terrible at driving economic gain as stadiums are.

I don't really know what I'm responding to or what point I'm making, but just figured I'd chime in with all of that.

You know about 60/40, right?
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Maybe. I've read a decent amount on it, but I'm not an expert. But I recall a theory that the fact that it's so overdue suggests the fault is simply shutting down and that "the big one" may never happen. Related, "the big one" just may not actually be that big of one, and St. Louis could be spared.

Also, it'd be incorrect to say that St. Louis hasn't earthquake proofed. They just haven't done it on the level of a place like San Francisco.

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