dfwabel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city. I don't think you should libel gay people by comparing them to corporate welfare.:| ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Wait, what? St. Louis has a "wet zone"? The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 $860-985 million, which fair enough is probably close enough to a billion, especially the way these things go. But it's still on the cheaper end of new football stadium costs these days.It's very cheap. How much of the cost for eminent domain factored in? Levi's Stadium had seismic costs added into it and it cost $1.2B. Speaking of which, that is another elephant in the room that probably should have been mentioned. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think he just means there are a lot of bars there, not to the exclusion of anywhere else. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I really hope so. But you never know with parts of the Midwest. Besides, don't they know that bars are best spaced out evenly throughout the area, preferably in a 1-bar-for-every-1800-residents ratio? And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that. Unless we think the players will be spooked by a little earth-rolling, I don't think that's a major issue. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Wait, what? St. Louis has a "wet zone"?The Landing businesses has been based on liquor sales for 20 years. That is a wet zone to me. Add in the casino, and it is a sin tax district already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I really hope so. But you never know with parts of the Midwest.Much like fellow German-settled and beer-producing state Wisconsin, Missouri has some of the most permissive liquor laws in the nation. Don't worry. And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that.He may have been talking about New Madrid. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 And is "California has earthquakes" really an elephant in any room? It's not like this is unknown, or that construction techniques don't reflect that.He may have been talking about New Madrid.Bingo. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Is that really that much of a concern with the rest of the city's architecture? I doubt St. Louis is built to be earthquake-proof the way Los Angeles and San Francisco are. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsFanBudMan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all.Laclede's was a shell of its former self the last time I was there.That's another part of the plan I'm not a fan of... the stadium is an island in an ocean of parking lots. Not uncommon, I know, but move that thing to the edge of the space and it might feel more connected to Laclede's... or at least the casino that's adjacent to it. Push the lots to the opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I really hope so. But you never know with parts of the Midwest.Much like fellow German-settled and beer-producing state Wisconsin, Missouri has some of the most permissive liquor laws in the nation. Don't worry.Whew. Had me there for a moment. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't think the plan is that bad. It did what it was designed to do: show that they're trying. On the most superficial level, it looks like a good idea to stick a stadium/entertainment district on the river where some abandoned warehouses and railyards used to be. All the messy details like who owns the land or who will pay for the whole thing can come later. They did enough to get people's imaginations going and to show the NFL that they're willing to gay about half a billion dollars to tape eight TV shows a year in their city.I think it's a terrible idea for a mid-sized city that struggles to support the NFL and NHL, a city that has much bigger things on its plate than keeping a sports team, but I struggle to find any major fault with their plans. St. Louis is really into boosterism; they just might pull the damn thing off after all if it means no one can talk crap about them and their Bosnians.But for two decades, Laclede's Landing has already been the city's wet zone (alcohol) and casino district. This isn't really going to assist at all.Laclede's was a shell of its former self the last time I was there.That's another part of the plan I'm not a fan of... the stadium is an island in an ocean of parking lots. Not uncommon, I know, but move that thing to the edge of the space and it might feel more connected to Laclede's... or at least the casino that's adjacent to it. Push the lots to the opposite side.So in the last 20-25 years, downtown St. Louis has had..1- A wet zone for booze at Lacledes Landing.2- The addition of riverboat casinos*and now the thought of an open air football stadium which will.directly compete with Busch Stadium III and its retail district.*-St. Louis city DID get hurt from the start when casinos read the language of the bill. "Of the water" regarding to the rivers allowed suburban casinos with moats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Is that really that much of a concern with the rest of the city's architecture? I doubt St. Louis is built to be earthquake-proof the way Los Angeles and San Francisco are. Yes it's not, but that doesn't make it any less of a concern. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Eh, I think that's a reach. In terms of reinforcement against natural disasters, I'd be much more worried about flooding than earthquakes, and I'm sure that even without any significant architectural planning to this point, they thought of that before I did. I'd rank both threats of natural disasters behind "we don't have the money." ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result. As for the "wet zones," I've never heard of that, and I'm a bit confused about what this talk is. St. Louis has bar districts throughout, and the landing is a relatively dead one. It used to be a bit livelier, it's always been under utilized. It hasn't been THE place to go since I've been even close to of age. By the way, the biggest off-the-river casino development in the St. Louis area is the one right there by the stadium, Lumiere. St. Louis already had suburban casinos because of the Missouri river that moves westward into the suburbs. Aside from that, casinos are about as terrible at driving economic gain as stadiums are. I don't really know what I'm responding to or what point I'm making, but just figured I'd chime in with all of that. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result. Oh, when it goes, (and it will go) St. Louis is ed. Pretty much every single geologic assessment on the fault zone agrees on both of those points. As for St. Louis not earthquake proofing, I think I'll just leave another comment regarding the unsurprising lack of foresight possessed by St. Louis' civic leaders. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The New Madrid may or may not ever go again. When it does it may destroy all of St. Louis or it may do very little. This is pretty much is what is known. They're probably not going to earthquake proof things anymore than they typically do as a result.As for the "wet zones," I've never heard of that, and I'm a bit confused about what this talk is. St. Louis has bar districts throughout, and the landing is a relatively dead one. It used to be a bit livelier, it's always been under utilized. It hasn't been THE place to go since I've been even close to of age.By the way, the biggest off-the-river casino development in the St. Louis area is the one right there by the stadium, Lumiere. St. Louis already had suburban casinos because of the Missouri river that moves westward into the suburbs. Aside from that, casinos are about as terrible at driving economic gain as stadiums are.I don't really know what I'm responding to or what point I'm making, but just figured I'd chime in with all of that.You know about 60/40, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Maybe. I've read a decent amount on it, but I'm not an expert. But I recall a theory that the fact that it's so overdue suggests the fault is simply shutting down and that "the big one" may never happen. Related, "the big one" just may not actually be that big of one, and St. Louis could be spared. Also, it'd be incorrect to say that St. Louis hasn't earthquake proofed. They just haven't done it on the level of a place like San Francisco. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Facts About the New Madrid Seismic Zone: http://www.dnr.mo.gov/geology/geosrv/geores/techbulletin1.htm JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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