BBTV Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Renderings are nice, but they forgot all the important details. Let's see where the money's coming from, because the state has already said it's not coming from tjem.That was exactly the gist of my post. The guy said a lot, without actually saying anything (or at least not much.) "well, I haven't spoken to commissioner gooddell", "we think soccer would work here but don't have committment for a team", "no, I can't expand on the environmental benefits I mentioned, but the buildings that are being torn down are old and probably have asbestos so that's good". Also, if you have to point to Pittsburgh to justify the economic benefits of any project, then it's already doomed. EDIT - yeah, he did mention PSLs as a method of "fan funding", and was like "yeah, they suck, but the ones other cities did suck more". "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Also, who dresses that guy and does he look at himself before he goes up to deliver a presentation to the press that would be braoadcast live? That blazer! The too-big shirt that he didn't even take the time to iron? That blazer! "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If half the stadium renderings for the LA area saw the light of day, the city would have its own freaking division. This means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Even if it means something, it doesn't mean anything for the Rams. I'll buy the first St. Louis Raiders cap though. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 For the sake of avoiding a link. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 That's some serious blight they'd be replacing. You'd think they'd have developed the riverfront better before. Best bet would probably be to build a soccer-specific stadium and try to capitalize on what a good soccer town St. Louis is. Maybe try to get a bowl game at the Jones Tomb for a few years, too. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It's nice. Nothing special, but a football stadium doesn't need to be special. Looks like getting in and out of the parking lots is going to be tough, but that's a common problem.It doesn't look like it has all the bells and whistles of the newer stadiums, which makes me question the $900M price tag. Certainly that land, while valuable due to being near the water, can't be the main factor. I'm also surprised it wouldn't have any kind of cover over the seating bowl (at least something over the top of the upper deck - I thought that was the norm these days) and did they mention anything about environmentally-frielndly stuff like solar panels? "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Here's a summary of what was stated for the funding: Instead, the $860- to $985 -million price tag would be funded through a combination of: private funding, a possible extension of the current bond paying for the Edward Jones Dome, some support from the Missouri Development Finance Board, brownfield tax credits, and seat license proceeds. Which isn't exactly the same as saying nothing. But it's true they were vague. I suspect they have lots of irons in the fire, but either are unable to or it isn't worth trying to have firm commitments to those things until a team is clear in that they'll commit to the stadium. All of these funding options are fine with me, but it's probably $200 million more in public dollars than I think is responsible. So I can't say I'm thrilled with the plan. Could be a bigger boondoggle, but this isn't great. The stadium itself looks great to me, though. It's hard to judge the bells and whistles with this level of plan, though. If it moves forward, I'm sure we'll learn more. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Will there be issues with the Mississippi flooding? It does flood often. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Supposedly they've addressed all the flooding issues. It'd have to be a flood greater than the Flood of '93 to even come close to flooding or something like that. I'm sure the details are somewhere, but that was addressed, and not something they hadn't thought of. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddySicks Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 That looks like a carbon copy of Sun Devil Stadium to me. On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said: She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just move the Rams to LA and be done with it. To me, St. Louis just doesn't scream football town to me. There's a reason this could end up being the second failure of a franchise there, they just doesn't seem to have quite the backing you'd want. It doesn't help they've struggled for the most part in their tenure, other than the lone super bowl win. And that stadium has quite the lack of character, feels rushed, just to get something done to show that they have a mild interest in keeping the team there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I'm sure they haven't done any real architectural planning yet, more of just "well, this is what a stadium would pretty much look like over here." And that's fine. I do suspect that the project, if approved, would finish on the high end of the budget. That's the way these things go. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Here's a summary of what was stated for the funding: Instead, the $860- to $985 -million price tag would be funded through a combination of: private funding, a possible extension of the current bond paying for the Edward Jones Dome, some support from the Missouri Development Finance Board, brownfield tax credits, and seat license proceeds.Which isn't exactly the same as saying nothing. But it's true they were vague. I suspect they have lots of irons in the fire, but either are unable to or it isn't worth trying to have firm commitments to those things until a team is clear in that they'll commit to the stadium.All of these funding options are fine with me, but it's probably $200 million more in public dollars than I think is responsible. So I can't say I'm thrilled with the plan. Could be a bigger boondoggle, but this isn't great.The stadium itself looks great to me, though. It's hard to judge the bells and whistles with this level of plan, though. If it moves forward, I'm sure we'll learn more.There is about $85M in parking garages since it's about $15K/space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Hey ST LOUIS FANS all those of you that did not want Rush Limbaugh buying part of the Rams, you know he would have likely kept them in St. Louis too, being from Cape Geradeau. Yes, and then they would have had to pay a ing premium to every black player in the league if they wanted them to sign with the team. That's a brilliant game plan homes! /If "known racist bigot" is your best hope of keeping the team, move the damn team. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 For my tastes, that's a bad deal if they don't get more committed from the owner. But if that's the deal that happens, how does the NFL walk away from that? Because you get what you pay for and from the looks of things the NFL would be paying for the functional equivalent of the Edward Jones Dome...only without a roof, which means it's ing useless for anything besides football from November to February. St. Louis really needed to raise the bar higher if they want to trump Los Angeles. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'll find some photos to post soon, but the stadium looks great. Right up against the North Riverfront. If the funding is there, I don't see how the NFL can leave St. Louis without a team. They're talking costs of $800-900 million, and they expect the NFL to commit $200 million and an owner to commit a minimum of $200 million. For my tastes, that's a bad deal if they don't get more committed from the owner. But if that's the deal that happens, how does the NFL walk away from that? Well, future Super Bowl AMIRITE ST. LOUIS??? Just $500 million in public funds to help a guy married to a Walton! That stadium will never host a Super Bowl. It's too small for league rules to allow it, and St. Louis is too cold/snowy in late January for an open air Super Bowl-especially since St. Louis doesn't come anywhere close to the frills New York has. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 OK full thoughts about the stadium. Regarding open air and riverfront location. 1. Open air may save money, but it's a huge mistake both for putting a stadium on the riverfront and for convincing Kroenke to stay because... 1a. I never had the (dis)pleasure of attending a baseball game in Busch II in July and August, but I've heard/read the stories. I'd hope that somebody would have thought to model air circulation inside the stadium, but that implies foresight, which I'm not sure is in good supply among St. Louis' city fathers. This could be a very unpleasant place to both play and watch football in July and August, and then we get to winter, and St. Louis does get cold snowy winters. Lose/Lose on the climate front really and the attendance will suffer for it. Also this means the stadium is useless from November to February, but you knew that already. 1b. Between the small size, lack of a roof, and St. Louis' crappy winters, the stadium committee just turned the NFL's "no Super Bowl in Kroenke-land" threat into a completely moot point. Because the NFL will never, ever play a Super Bowl in that stadium in St. Louis. Write it in stone. This is what we in the business call an own goal. 1c. Seriously, you're proposing building a roofless EJD. This is supposed to trump Los Angeles? 2. This is placing a lot of emphasis on the idea that some civic money is enough to get an NFL team to stay, which strikes me as a rather simplistic approach. 2a. At least you can chop off the upper bowl, because trying to find somebody who wants to field an MLS team in St. Louis and/or convincing SLU or MSL to start up an FCS program are the best bets for finding a use for that stadium. 3. St. Louis seems to be putting a ton of eggs in the "NFL is really really pissed at Kroenke" basket. Which may not be an advisable strategy. It certainly strikes me as excessively optimistic (what else would you expect from the land of the Pollyannas, though?) On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 It is just absolutely fantastic that you can look at the early renderings and be so certain that the building is no better than the Dome. Fantastic. People's major complaints with the Dome: 1. Dark 2. Bad sight lines 3. Bad sound system/acoustics 4. Tight walking spaces 5. No ideal place for tailgating 6. A lack of high-end revenue streams (that'd be an owner complaint) 7. A crappy football team #1 and #5 are clearly addressed, #7 is out of their hands, and I think it's reasonably fair to assume a new building will address the others. It's certainly unfair to assume they wouldn't address these basic things. But if it doesn't look like a space ship, I guess it must be dull and boring, huh? Nothing about this is supposed to trump LA. St. Louis can't trump LA. It's just supposed to be a really great venue. Looks to me like it has that kind of potential. Also, I think you're making way too much out of the weather. Is St. Louis the only market that gets hot or the only market that gets cold? No, you just think we have crappy fans who won't show up due to the weather. Whatever. Make it an experience worth going to, and I assure you they will. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 There are 2 issues with this proposal. The first I alluded to earlier. It involves too much public money. I wanted to hold firm at roughly 1/3. This is going to be closer to half. Maybe more. Probably a little more, in fact. The other is the amount of buildings coming down. Yes, they're mostly vacant. Yes, some would describe them as blighted. In fact, maybe some have been officially designated that way. Nonetheless, they're beautiful and historic, and many are not beyond saving. A few will be. The most iconic (not that any of them are truly iconic these days, but I'm coming up short on the right word) will be saved. But I wish they'd have saved more in this plan. And it'd have been cool to integrate them into the stadium structure. http://www.builtstlouis.net/industrial/riverfrontnorth.html JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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