Webdav challenge comment thread

[GMS1122]

post your comments of the june webdav challenge entrys here! we want to know what you think of them  

[Phil]

First of all, we should say that anyone reading this who has not yet voted, should go vote, then read this.

...okay, done?

My rundown may be short AND TOTALLY IMHO, but here it is.

Badboys: Reasonably good production is hurt by a bad name choice. Sounds way too XFL/AF2ish.

Blaze: looks very 70s/80s-ish. The LA is neat, but the flames could have been better executed (and in another place).

Cavalry: I'm a homer, can't really criticize my own thing real well. I wish this was MLB MVP voting, with second and third place points. I just went with the best name I could think of, and ran with it. Probably would be better of on the East Coast somewhere, but anyway...

Condors: A few things I don't like, but I need to say this is the best produced logo there. For that reason, it'll likely win. The things I don't like are the name (too many birds in the NFL) and the bird position (but it's original). The colours aren't outstanding, but they're relatively new to the NFL, that's a positive.

Hazard: don't know what to think. The drop shadow (a Paint staple) is too busy-ing, and the logo is interesting, but not very original. The skull 2ndary is neat, but wouldn't be helmet material either. I personally like the black helmet.

Lancers: again, the LA idea shows up. I would've used a more obvious knight-type idea, but this is original. It's missing fluidity, it's a little too square, and the the LOS ANGELES on the shield is too small. Good effort, and there are those 'original' colours again (thanks, Bobcats).

Legion: the L doesn't stand out enough from the Sword. Legion is a little awkward on the big long sword. The Spartans-esque helmet is over-used in sports.

Quakes: logo originality isn't there. At first I thought the wordmark's slant was a problem with my monitor, then I noticed it wasn't. Unis are very Philadelphiesque.

Stars: helmet logo's tough to see (looks more like a sun, and yeah, technically the sun's a star, but it's), and the text on the jersey's illegible. Interesting colour selection, but in this logo contest, unfortunately this jersey won't make the grade.

To all who entered (and I subsequently criticized), great work. I'm glad the second webdav challenge will be a success. I mean no offense in my judgings, sorry if I was a little harsh or blunt, and may the best concept win.

[Saintsfan]

I went for the Condors idea. Do they have Condors in Ca.? Hope so or my reason for not voting for the Cavalry idea will seem dumb!  Basically I didn't go for the Cavalry for historical reasons! California wasn't a part of the Civil War as far as I know (I stand to be corrected!) So the whole blue hat logo thing seems misplaced. It would be a great identity for someone else though!

All of the designs were good! Well done to all the entrants, truly excellent work!

[rtrich11]

I don't know if the Condor is the state bird, but the species is called California Condor. Not many of them left, but they are trying to repopulate the region.

The ABA had a team called the Pittsburg Condors. Now that is out of place. (If you look that one up, notice the similar composition to the Atlanta Hawks. Not a ripoff, though.)

[sc49erfan15]

I voted for the Cavalry. True, it doesn't quite fit in historically, but I preferred the name Cavalry over Condors. I don't know why, but I just don't like Condors. And saintsfan, aren't you in England? If so, mad props for knowing so much about the US Civil War!

LA Badboys: Nice production work, but the name and logo just don't quite fit NFL material, if that makes any sense. Great for a roller hockey team though.

LA Blaze: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is that fire original work? It doesn't look like it, but if so, nicely done, but again, not NFL material, another good roller hockey design.

LA Cavalry: My vote. I think the horse is extremely nicely done, very realistic. Nice detail on the soldier, I love it. I could definitely see this being used in the NFL.

LA Condors: My runner-up. The logo and wordmark are a little better than the Cavalry, but it's just the name that threw me off. I just plain don't like condors. Logo is great, colors are nice (ORANGE! ) but I thought Cavalry was just a little superior because of the name. Anyhow, great, great, great work!

LA Gryphons: I didn't see this one when I first voted. I like it. But on the gryphon, the curves are sort of..."squared off". I know the stupid curve limitation things on Illustrator are a *****, but I would have freehanded the curves. Very good, though.

LA Hazard: This one needs a date with Illustrator. I think it could have potential, but not as an NFL design.

LA Lancers: I GOT A VOTE! YEAH!! :laugh: Who voted for me?

LA Legion: I like it, but the graphics could use some touching up. The red is also just a wee bit too bright. Nice job though.

LA Quakes: I thought this wasn't a uni contest? Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Also...again correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that logo the same as the computer game Quake? I do like the uni though.

LA Stars: see LA Quakes

And like SyPhi, no offense to any of the logo designers, and if anyone happens to have beef, you can always find me on Yahoo, MSN or AIM.. ::

[Saintsfan]

And saintsfan, aren't you in England? If so, mad props for knowing so much about the US Civil War!

Yep true Brit here! However in my day job I am a history teacher and in my degree at University I did a bit of American History ('Give me liberty or give me death', 'A house divided against itself cannot stand' and all that!!!!)

[GMS1122]

and i'll be the 3rd to rundown all the logos...

LA Badboys: See 49erfan's comment, my thoughts exactly

LA Blaze: Could have been a little more creative with this, not bad but didnt tickle my fancy.

LA Cavalry: Extremely well done, should have gotten my vote..everything looks great, i know for sure that tons of time and effort was put into this one, and i think it deserves the title for June!

LA Condors: Great logo product, looks a little grainy, but that may have happened when it was saved, my 3rd place finisher..i honestly dont see the greatness everyone else seems to see in it, its an awesome logo, dont get me wrong but i dont think it top the Cavalry.

LA Gryphons: My PERSONAL favorite, got my vote because i am biased, i thought it was some of my best stuff, but obviously others didnt agree (what ya gonna do) i know it doesnt have much of an LA connection, but i thought the name was pretty unique.

LA Hazard: would have a much better shot if not created in Paint, not much you can do about that, great job within limitations.

LA Lancers: well done logo, but not NFL quality IMO. but solid effort and deserves to be recognized.

LA Legion: almost could have combine with Lancers if colors were right, good concept, but cant compete with the others this time IMO.

LA Quakes and Stars: See 9erfan's comments

Great contest this month, still a rather lopsided vote between 2 teams, but they are clearly the best ones there.

[GMS1122]

SyPhi- why no Gryphons rundown!? :: j/k you probably told me everything you thought on MSN by now :laugh:

anywya this is post #700!  

[whchoclte]

I am glad to see the number of competitors has grown and the work has improved.  Congrats to everyone.

As for the designs I will comment on each one.

BADBOYS – Good idea, but some what poor execution.  There seems to be too many elements surrounding the main part of the logo, the tire and spikes.  The main logo gets lost with the  footabll and arch.  Simpler is better here.  A great idea off this one is to use the spikes as the seams on the football and incorporate one idea with the other.  Just an idea.  Too close  the Raiders though.

BLAZE – I actually think the LA in the Blaze is very clever.  The font is a bit hard to read the B and Z.  I am not fond of a wordmark as a main logo, just never allows for enough creativity.  

CAVALRY – One of the top designs here.  Shows that time was taken and it was thought of at every angle.   The shadowing allows a 2d image stand out.  I love the small  features like the mustache.  I am a big fan of setting each detail in place.  The two things I don’t like here is the font.  Just doesn’t flow right too many jagged edges.  Also the PDF is kind of tacky, with all the fades.

CONDORS – I think this is a great name for LA.  It ties into California nicely.  The wordmark fits beautifully with the main logo, although los angeles is missing from it, just in case you put it on apparel.  Here the simpler the better.  I believe that it could have been taken further though with more shadowing and a different angle for the bird.  Could have been very menacing.

GRYPHONS – Love the idea, but the execution is rough.  The lines should become curves and flow.  It was a complete proposal though with unis, field art, secondary and main logos and word mark.  Good follow through on the idea.

HAZARD – Not a bad logo, but I don’t believe they would ever use the biohazard logo for a team.  The font is getting there but the drop shadow is too much.  And with that skull head you have AL Davis to deal with, good luck.

LANCERS – Very simple.  This name along with the Legion can be explored so much more.  I don’t see a main logo here, which threw me off.  Something as simple as just a well drawn sword can work ex. Claymores in the WFL.

LEGION – Same as LANCERS

QUAKES – Actually this would have been my choice of name is I entered.  I did a whole concept for a fantasy owner of mine but they were the QUAKE.  The logo unless you are a gamer doesn’t really elude to a quake or LA.  This concept needs more originality.

STARS – Actually could work in LA.  The LA Stars.  With all the movies and all this name could have great possibilities.  Just too plain.  Live it up.  It is Hollywood you know.

Well enough from me.  I wish I could have entered but no time.  I am still here to help and give advice. Good luck to everyone.

[rtrich11]

I think a way to look at these is to see them next to the real NFL deal. Go to http://mrudolf.tripod.com/logos/ and look up the NFL page. The NFL just about always keeps the main wordmark separate from the main logo. Secondary logos vary. The main logo is usually pretty bold.

The Bad Boys could take the spiked collar and make that the main mark. The Hazard and Quakes (although from a video game) alread do. The Cavalry is good, but could be a tad simpler. That is a tough logo to do, as I'm sure you've seen a bunch of horse and rider combos (Ok Wranglers, many arena teams, Texas Tech secondary, etc.)

[Cuss16]

Well, i did the badboys logo and i appreciate all the comments and i will try to improve on that for the next challenge, thanx guys.

[Phil]

Sorry GMS... how could I ever have forgotten you?

I picked this one as my dark horse, just because I thought that although one of the premier designers would probably do what the Condors have done, and because the Gryphons logo has such a different feel from anything you see in this contest. The grey, black, and gold is a very cold set, and I like the jaggedness of it because it gives the logo a more menacing feel than would, perhaps, a curvy, flowing gryphon. I love the wing shading, and the sharp font is clear and strong. The LA over California secondary is better than the gryphon secondary, but both are well done.

[Brian in Boston]

Please take my comments in the spirit in which they are intended; they are meant as honest (and straight-forward) critiques. I hope that they won't be perceived as anything but. That said...

Los Angeles BadBoys: The name strikes me as being too self-consciously "edgy" and "trendy" for its own good. It smacks of the XFL... and not in a good way. The spiked collar idea might have worked better if it were incorporated as the "O" in "BadBoys". The shade of blue that was chosen seems too bright to suit the name. I mean, how many "bad boys" would be caught dead wearing electric blue? Then again, how many truly bad boys would refer to themselves as "badboys"?  I might have gone with a dark purple.

Los Angeles Blaze: Very 1970s North American Soccer League or early National Lacrosse League. I like the separating out of the "LA" from the word "Blaze"... though I find myself wondering if the team name was selected to support that design choice (???).

Los Angeles Cavalry: A terrific name... if we were talking about a team in another market. I just feel that the identity would work better for a team in Texas (Dallas Cavalry... Houston Cavalry) or Missouri (Kansas City Cavalry). Even Colorado Cavalry has a ring to it (for a Denver-based team). I just don't think "cavalry" when I think Los Angeles. As for the design, I like the color scheme; basic, but it suits the identity.

The primary mark is decent. I like the way the elements are arrayed in the primary mark: i.e. the horse rearing up, the choice of a 3/4 view, the rider "hunkered down" over the horse's back. Very nice. However, the artwork seems "unfinished"... particularly with regard to the horse. I'm assuming that the cavalry officer's coat is billowing behind him in the wind... because otherwise he's got a booty to rival J-Lo's. The style of the wordmarks doesn't seem to fit the overall theme. I'd have gone with something more "Western" in style (something like the font used in the most recent Utah Jazz logo). Also, I'd have liked to have seen detail in the crossed swords in the secondary mark... the silhouette treatment is a bit boring. All of this said... definitely my "silver medalist" in the competition.

Los Angeles Condors: Hands down, the best submission to the competition. First and foremost, "Condors" is a perfect identity for a team based in California. They are native to the state, they are one of the largest birds on the face of the planet, they are tremendously majestic in flight, and they've got a menacing look about them. I'm not going to penalize the suggestion because there are currently five NFL teams (out of 32... hardly a high percentage) named after birds. Frankly, "Condors" fits an LA-based team much better than "Cardinals" fits Arizona or "Falcons" fits Atlanta (In fact, in a recent column, Frank DeFord revealed that historically, only females of the falcon species were referred to by that name... males were called tercels. So... Atlanta's NFL franchise is named after a FEMALE bird! That's intimidating... NOT!). Design-wise, I think the composition of both the primary and secondary marks is dynamite. I particularly like the secondary mark that features the bird in flight. It's an unusual treatment (viewing the condor from behind), but all the more interesting because of it. The color scheme would be very original for the NFL, though I would love to see black/red/silver/white (I know... done to death, but closer to a condor's actual color-scheme) and black/orange/silver/white treatments as well. All in all, a terrific identity package which was very well executed. My "gold medalist".

Los Angeles Hazard: This entire concept takes XFL-style marketing to the extreme. It does nothing for me.

Los Angeles Gryphons: The wordmark is sharp. I also like the "LA" superimposed over California secondary. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the gryphon just doesn't "click" for me. Interesting color scheme, though I'm wondering if the main colors are supposed to represent metallic gold and metallic silver. That would be a bit much. However, while we're on the subject of  precious metals... this submission rounds out my top three. Let's give it the "bronze".

The remaining submissions all seem to be "half done". Both the Los Angeles Lancers and Los Angeles Legion (great identity if the team were to play in the Coliseum) strike me as having a great deal of potential, but it seems that the designers didn't quite know where to take them. The Los Angeles Quakes and Los Angeles Stars (very World Football League) identities almost seem to be afterthoughts in their designers' quests to come up with uniform treatments.

Still... tremendous initiative gang! I don't know where you guys find the hours in the day. Keep up the work!

Brian in Boston

[GMS1122]

Los Angeles Gryphons: The wordmark is sharp. I also like the "LA" superimposed over California secondary. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the gryphon just doesn't "click" for me. Interesting color scheme, though I'm wondering if the main colors are supposed to represent metallic gold and metallic silver. That would be a bit much. However, while we're on the subject of precious metals... this submission rounds out my top three. Let's give it the "bronze".

i was really going for more of a copper and dark grey look, i know 2 metallic colors in one logo can be annoying ::  ive got the pantones if you're interested

[Sterling84]

I particularly like the secondary mark that features the bird in flight. It's an unusual treatment (viewing the condor from behind), but all the more interesting because of it.

I don't mean to be "that guy" with annoying critique that is barely relevant...but the underside of condor's wings have that white visible.  This means the bird is flying toward us and has no head....

I still LOVE little species particular details like that so bravo to the designer.

Everyone did a marvelous job on a challenge so daunting I didn't even try.

Production-wise it's hands down the COndors.  But I think the Quakes and Stars have something in terms of a name...just need to be more fully realized.

Props y'all.  Good work.

How bout next month an NHL team for Milwaukee??  

ok I'll shut up now.

[Phil]

Los Angeles Cavalry: A terrific name... if we were talking about a team in another market. I just feel that the identity would work better for a team in Texas (Dallas Cavalry... Houston Cavalry) or Missouri (Kansas City Cavalry). Even Colorado Cavalry has a ring to it (for a Denver-based team). I just don't think "cavalry" when I think Los Angeles. As for the design, I like the color scheme; basic, but it suits the identity.

The primary mark is decent. I like the way the elements are arrayed in the primary mark: i.e. the horse rearing up, the choice of a 3/4 view, the rider "hunkered down" over the horse's back. Very nice. However, the artwork seems "unfinished"... particularly with regard to the horse. I'm assuming that the cavalry officer's coat is billowing behind him in the wind... because otherwise he's got a booty to rival J-Lo's. The style of the wordmarks doesn't seem to fit the overall theme. I'd have gone with something more "Western" in style (something like the font used in the most recent Utah Jazz logo). Also, I'd have liked to have seen detail in the crossed swords in the secondary mark... the silhouette treatment is a bit boring. All of this said... definitely my "silver medalist" in the competition.

Great rundown. I'd like to know what looks unfinished on the horse, though. (I originally had him in a non-white colour, but I figured that the good guys ride white, the bad guys ride black, and since black would've caused too many definition problems, white it was.) It would probably work better for a different city, but oh well. If one of the next contests is for a different Charlotte basketball identity, then maybe this will make an encore appearance.

Yes, that is his jacket. No, I didn't shade it well enough to make it obvious.

The silhouette is not very complex, but I was going for something that could show up well on both a dark and light jersey with minimal outlining, as well as being simple enough to be small and clear. The swords are or were the crest of the Cavalry, and instead of detailing it and plagiarize, I went simple.

Also, I was definitely considering some western style writing, but given it's prevalance in the NFL (Indianapolis and Dallas are two I think of off the top of my head), I went with something that I've used in the past and liked.

That said, I'm glad you enjoyed the stuff. July will be mine.  ::

[rtrich11]

Thanks for all the comments. I actually thought about using black as the main color for the Condors, but since so many NFL teams use it... It is kinda hard to clean up a bird that in real life is quite hideous up close. I still am not crazy about the ruffles on the feathers.

I forgot to comment on the Griffins in that there's something about that pose I like. It may be worth revisiting after a few months to tweak.

I put the two helmets in there out of indecision. I always make a mini helmet of my football designs and couldn't decide if I liked the solo bird, or the head with LA. I'd take opinions on that.

[quantum]

My favorite was the Condors.  The name is good.  The logo is a great design and has a polished, professional look to it.  I think the colors work perfectly.  Excellent work.

The Cavalry was my second choice.  The design was good overall.  Some of the lines within the horse could be smoothed out a bit.  The officer's ass is too big, and I don't like the font used at all.  Having said that, SyPhi has come a long way with his designs.  Great job.  A near miss (this time out).

If I had to pick a third place, it would be the Badboys.  Points for originality and design, but the name just doesn't work for the NFL.

If these contests prove anything, it's that vector design is the only way to go.  I wish I had more time to improve my skillset by entering these contests.  Good effort by all.

Bruno

[Cuss16]

Thanx for the originality points    I thought of the name, badboys since i thought it would be funny or interesting to have a name like that for a football team. I'll definitely need to improve on that for the next challenge. I did mine in photoshop, thought i made it look clean and clear like vectorized ones, except mine was not good as them.

[zoneranger]

OK, the Legion was mine, and you're right...I didn't know where to go with it. I had already stalled out on my Knights proposal, so I kind of half hearted finished the Legion. Some professional, Huh? (BTW, the visor on the helmet was supposed to be black, like it would make a big difference! )

Shawn, the guy I work with, submitted the Blaze and the name "BLAZE" was thought of first before the "LA" was emphasized. He created the letters and manipulated the flames in Freehand.