Kirby Puckett in Hall Of Fame

[buildingmaint]

Yes, it did take his death for me to realize he was in the HOF.This is what the discussion is about.Did you read the past posts?

[fiasco!]

Yes, it did take his death for me to realize he was in the HOF.This is what the discussion is about.Did you read the past posts?

i read the entire thread....i just don't understand your point, or lack thereof.

[buildingmaint]

The point is Kirby Puckett does not have the numbers for the HOF. He was voted in because he was well liked,not for what he did on the field.His nunbers are good , but not great.If you don't like the argument don't post.

[fiasco!]

my point is that puckett was voted into the hall of fame, therefore his numbers ARE hall of fame numbers, regardless of whether you think so or not. why should the hall be strictly about numbers, anyway? does a player's contribution to the success of baseball in the market he played in weigh in to his induction into the hall. i'd like to think so, otherwise players like Bill Mazeroski and Tony Perez might not be in the hall either.

[Shmee]

I have to agree with Joel here. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Strict Numbers Requirements. If you are one of the most beloved and memorable players of your generation and every baseball fan knows what you did in the World Series, you should be in the Hall of Fame.

[buildingmaint]

Then call it the "Group of Real Good Guys Who Were Good For The Game". Baseball is all about numbers . Every thing is counted . Contracts have performance clauses. Stat leaders are in all the papers. If you go by the "He's a good guy" theory it lessens those who were great and their numbers prove it. I didn't start counting Baseball did.

[gosioux76]

Then call it the "Group of Real Good Guys Who Were Good For The Game". Baseball is all about numbers . Every thing is counted . Contracts have performance clauses. Stat leaders are in all the papers. If you go by the "He's a good guy" theory it lessens those who were great and their numbers prove it. I didn't start counting Baseball did.

So, by this argument Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame regardless of other intangibles -- say, steroids.

Pete Rose would have been a lock by this argument, since factors outside of pure numbers -- say, gambling on baseball -- obviously aren't important.

I mean, they've got hall of fame numbers after all.

[rams80]

Then call it the "Group of Real Good Guys Who Were Good For The Game". Baseball is all about numbers . Every thing is counted . Contracts have performance clauses. Stat leaders are in all the papers. If you go by the "He's a good guy" theory it lessens those who were great and their numbers prove it. I didn't start counting Baseball did.

How is that different from any other sport?

Seriously, if we do things your way I'm looking forward to Jose Canseco's Hall of Fame acceptance speech.

Being a Hall of Famer is more than just being about numbers. It is about how you contributed to the team, how well your team did, and they can sometimes give you credit for potential stats if your career was cut short by injury (I know its a different sport, but I call it the "Gale Sayers Rule").

[brinkeguthrie]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/base...t.ap/index.html

[Mac the Knife]

Then call it the "Group of Real Good Guys Who Were Good For The Game". Baseball is all about numbers . Every thing is counted . Contracts have performance clauses. Stat leaders are in all the papers. If you go by the "He's a good guy" theory it lessens those who were great and their numbers prove it. I didn't start counting Baseball did.

So, by this argument Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame regardless of other intangibles -- say, steroids.

Pete Rose would have been a lock by this argument, since factors outside of pure numbers -- say, gambling on baseball -- obviously aren't important.

I mean, they've got hall of fame numbers after all.

Game.

Set.

Match.

[buildingmaint]

Then why do you keep records of stats? What function would stats have if they meant nothing?In your world just a nice guy would get in . Weather he batted .240 or .320 it all depends on what kind of guy he was.

[rams80]

Then why do you keep records of stats? What function would stats have if they meant nothing?In your world just a nice guy would get in . Weather he batted .240 or .320 it all depends on what kind of guy he was.

Stats are a guide and aid, not the ultimate end-all be-all and arbiter of hall of fame membership.

[Shmee]

Then why do you keep records of stats? What function would stats have if they meant nothing?In your world just a nice guy would get in . Weather he batted .240 or .320 it all depends on what kind of guy he was.

Do those African-American players who only got to play in the Negro Leagues not deserve to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame because they never put up big numbers in the Major Leagues?

By your measure, if players don't have the "Hall of Fame numbers" they don't deserve to be there, even if they contribute greatly to the sport of baseball and society as a whole.

[gosioux76]

Then why do you keep records of stats? What function would stats have if they meant nothing?In your world just a nice guy would get in . Weather he batted .240 or .320 it all depends on what kind of guy he was.

What you seem to be missing is the middle ground.

Your argument implies that stats should be the sole determining factor. What the rest of us are saying is that there's much more toa legendary baseball player than pure numbers.

Yes, numbers play a role. But it's much more than just that.

And it's not just a "nice guy" getting into the hall of fame. By making that argument, you're doing a great injustice to Kirby Puckett's baseball legacy.

Kirby Puckett transformed the game with personality and unquestionable abilities. He was an ambassador of goodwill for baseball as well as its savior for legions of Minnesota fans like myself. He carried a franchise on his back to win one of the greatest World Series of all time. And he produced numbers that would fit your so-called Hall of Fame criteria were his career not tragically cut short.

Your argument tries to make this a black and white issue, when Puckett's mark on baseball was left in pure, beautiful color.

[fiasco!]

Your argument tries to make this a black and white issue, when Puckett's mark on baseball was left in pure, beautiful color.

never said better...what a beautiful line to end your statement.

[OnWis97]

If we are going to employ Buildingmaint's logic, then there should be no voting. Just a set of stats that have to be achieved.

Offense: 500 HR, 3000 H, or bust

Pitching: 300 Wins, 500 saves (not sure what that number is) or bust.

Then there would be no arguing. The "Hall of Longevity."

10 straight All-Star Games? No matter.

6 Gold Gloves? No, defense has nothing to do with carreer milestones in hits and HR.

7 times finished in the top 10 in MVP? No. That is not stats.

Heart and Sole of two World Championships? So what, baseball is a numbers game.

One of the five quickest players to 2,000 hits. Hey, if he'd made it to 3,000...

Statistics act as an indicator to how good a player is. And Puck's stats were rock solid (projected 5 more years, would have made even your HOF standards). But there is more to greatness than statistics. In basketball, players are judged in part on how they make their teammates better. This is more of a rarity in baseball, but Puckett had the rare ability to do that. He made his team better with his example, his attitude and his ability to put them on his back every now and then. That's why visiting sportswriters liked when the Twins came to town, because Puckett had that clubhouse lively and that carried them through the 162 game marathon.

Perhaps, at a base level, it may be worth examining the phrase "Hall of Fame" or the word "Fame."

Let's transform your rules to music. Brittany Spears sold more albums than Nirvanna. Does that make her better?

[buildingmaint]

Well lets just project everyones numbers for five or six years. This is not fantasy baseball it is what you did on the field.Yes there should be a set of numbers to be considered for HOF.And didn't Puckett's wife acuse him of trying to kill her? And what about this steroid issue . Some of you have said steroids use equal no HOF.

[HatCityEnforcer]

Well lets just project everyones numbers for five or six years. This is not fantasy baseball it is what you did on the field.Yes there should be a set of numbers to be considered for HOF.And didn't Puckett's wife acuse him of trying to kill her? And what about this steroid issue . Some of you have said steroids use equal no HOF.

Unbelieveable...

Ya know, when you've hit rock bottom, a normal person would quit...

However, it seems you enjoy busting out shovels.

Set numbers...well, using that flawed logic, we might as well Sandy Koufax, "sorry..those numbers don't measure up to these other guys...so long!"

Off the field stuff...hmmm...there's folks in there that have done much worse than that (Ty Cobb comes to mind immediately..and let's not forget Cap Anson, the person that brought you the color line ).

As for steroids...what issue? Never heard of one involving Puckett...last time I checked, his name wasn't Barry Bonds, Raffy Palmiero, or Mark McGwire.

[OnWis97]

Well lets just project everyones numbers for five or six years.  This is not fantasy baseball it is what you did on the field.Yes there should be a set of numbers to be considered for HOF.And didn't Puckett's wife acuse him of trying to kill her? And what about this steroid issue . Some of you have said steroids use equal no HOF.

Puckett's wife accused him of threatening to kill her. If the voters want to take that into account, I suppose they can.

But as for steroids, there has never been a Puckett-realated allegation. If you are going to not have him in the Hall of Fame becuase of that, than they should just ban everyone that played from the mid 1980s until the early 2000s.

[buildingmaint]

Albert Bell had eight dominant years ,but he won't make the HOF why is that?Dale Murphy was a great guy , but he won't make the HOF ,why?