New MLB hats next season

[baseballking99]

If you ignore:

• the inconsistent sizing;
  
• the brims attached on an angle
  
• the off-center buttons
  
• the off-center team logo on the front
  
• the off-center MLB logo on the back
  
• the poor stiching
  

In other words, if you ignore virtually everything about the construction, then "they're the highest quality."  

Ninety-nine out of a hundred are garbage, but that hundreth one?  Quality. 

I'd actually like to see some quantification on these claims. (I don't mean, "You, Gothamite, show us some proof or retract!" I just mean that the repeated assertions by many here of New Era's manufacturing incompetence make me curious in the abstract about just how common these product flaws are.)

I've experienced the inconsistent sizing myself, though I cannot say to what extent it has to do with the sensitivity of the head as opposed to negligence on New Era's part. I mean, every pair of pants I own is a slightly different length, though all are either 34" inseams or tailored. But you just don't notice a quarter-inch variance in inseam, or even in waist size. But that same quarter inch variance amounts to most of the circumferential difference between 1/8-inch cap sizes. I certainly do not notice better size regularity from Zephyr's fitted caps, nor from Tilley, Stetson, or the $200 handmade Panama hats I tried on on a lark in Georgetown recently. So to what extent is the size variance inherent in handmade hatmaking, and to what extent does New Era exhibit worse quality control on fitted headwear than other manufacturers? It's a question I'd love to see answered quantitatively.

Further, I've sorted through hundreds of New Era 5950s in my day, searching for the perfect combination of exact fit and tight-cornered logo embroidery, and I just haven't seen the other problems you identify. I've never seen an improperly attached brim. I've never seen an off-center button. I can think of one time I sat behind a guy with a crooked MLB logo. (Drove me batty, as asymmetrical things do, which is why I'm quite sure I've only seen it the once.) I have seen a handful of team logos visibly stitched at an angle, and I see a lot of team logos where a milimeter or two of the foam they use is visible at the corners (a problem, I am convinced, not with New Era quality control but with the basic idea of stupid puffy logos in the first place, since I see the same ragged corners on other brands' puffy embroidery).

It would be valuable if someone with access to a quantity of new 5950s were to check a few hundred caps for the problems mentioned above. Are they in fact common, and I'm the luckiest cap buyer in the world? Or like most anecdotal reports, are the exceptions magnified by perception into a false norm?

Thats the truth. There are a few caps that are off and improperly sized but that has nothing to do with the qualitty of the hat you buy. I've seen those caps and i notice that 7 1/4 is diffrent for many hats but if you try on a few and buy the one you like, the 5950's are the best caps.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I can vouch for every issue on Gothamite's list, except for the button. But that's only because I never looked for that (as I now panic that my new Cubs cap has an off-center button). I don't own a cap with every problem because one bad cap made me realize that not all caps are equal, but I have seen them since during my long searches for the perfect cap (fit-wise and look-wise).

[Gothamite]

There are a few caps that are off and improperly sized but that has nothing to do with the qualitty of the hat you buy.

To be honest, the inconvenient sizing is the least of my problems with New Era.

Next time you're in a store, check out the bills. Compare where the seams on one side lie compared with the seams on the others. I think you'll find that the New Era caps are off more often than not.

Then compare any cap made by Twins Enterprise. I don't like all their fits, but their quality is top-notch. Compare ten caps of theirs at random with ten random New Era caps and tell me there isn't a noticeable difference in quality.

I can understand preferring New Era's styling, or their fit. But quality? I wish.

[Gothamite]

If you ignore:

• the inconsistent sizing;
  
• the brims attached on an angle
  
• the off-center buttons
  
• the off-center team logo on the front
  
• the off-center MLB logo on the back
  
• the poor stiching
  

In other words, if you ignore virtually everything about the construction, then "they're the highest quality."  

Ninety-nine out of a hundred are garbage, but that hundreth one?  Quality. 

I'd actually like to see some quantification on these claims. (I don't mean, "You, Gothamite, show us some proof or retract!" I just mean that the repeated assertions by many here of New Era's manufacturing incompetence make me curious in the abstract about just how common these product flaws are.)

I've experienced the inconsistent sizing myself, though I cannot say to what extent it has to do with the sensitivity of the head as opposed to negligence on New Era's part. I mean, every pair of pants I own is a slightly different length, though all are either 34" inseams or tailored. But you just don't notice a quarter-inch variance in inseam, or even in waist size. But that same quarter inch variance amounts to most of the circumferential difference between 1/8-inch cap sizes. I certainly do not notice better size regularity from Zephyr's fitted caps, nor from Tilley, Stetson, or the $200 handmade Panama hats I tried on on a lark in Georgetown recently. So to what extent is the size variance inherent in handmade hatmaking, and to what extent does New Era exhibit worse quality control on fitted headwear than other manufacturers? It's a question I'd love to see answered quantitatively.

Further, I've sorted through hundreds of New Era 5950s in my day, searching for the perfect combination of exact fit and tight-cornered logo embroidery, and I just haven't seen the other problems you identify. I've never seen an improperly attached brim. I've never seen an off-center button. I can think of one time I sat behind a guy with a crooked MLB logo. (Drove me batty, as asymmetrical things do, which is why I'm quite sure I've only seen it the once.) I have seen a handful of team logos visibly stitched at an angle, and I see a lot of team logos where a milimeter or two of the foam they use is visible at the corners (a problem, I am convinced, not with New Era quality control but with the basic idea of stupid puffy logos in the first place, since I see the same ragged corners on other brands' puffy embroidery).

It would be valuable if someone with access to a quantity of new 5950s were to check a few hundred caps for the problems mentioned above. Are they in fact common, and I'm the luckiest cap buyer in the world? Or like most anecdotal reports, are the exceptions magnified by perception into a false norm?

I first noticed it when I worked in a shop during college. I used to stock the baseball caps, and I noticed a distinct difference between the manufacturing consistency of New Era and other manufacturers, specifically American Needle, Mitchell & Ness and the late, lamented Roman Pro.

The button is a subtle thing, but look at it from the inside. See if the metal circle sits right smack-dab in the middle where the seams come together.

If you look at an Angels cap, or something like it, you can really see how the cap logos are off-centered. The point of the "A" should line up exactly with the front seam. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I'd expect these types of problems with a handmade product like Cooperstown Ball Cap Co (although they're even worse, and by far). But a New Era cap is a manufactured product. If Twins Enterprise can maintain that extremely high standard of quality, why can't New Era?

I'm not the only one making these assertions, and as far as I know we're all doing it from personal experience. But some of us are more anal about these thing than others are, so maybe it doesn't bother you that the bill is a couple degrees off or the logo is slightly off-centered. More power to you - I wish they I didn't notice them.

[BallWonk]

I first noticed it when I worked in a shop during college.  I used to stock the baseball caps, and I noticed a distinct difference between the manufacturing consistency of New Era and other manufacturers, specifically American Needle, Mitchell & Ness and the late, lamented Roman Pro.

The button is a subtle thing, but look at it from the inside.  See if the metal circle sits right smack-dab in the middle where the seams come together.

If you look at an Angels cap, or something like it, you can really see how the cap logos are off-centered.  The point of the "A" should line up exactly with the front seam.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I'd expect these types of problems with a handmade product like Cooperstown Ball Cap Co (although they're even worse, and by far).  But a New Era cap is a manufactured product.  If Twins Enterprise can maintain that extremely high standard of quality, why can't New Era?

I'm not the only one making these assertions, and as far as I know we're all doing it from personal experience.  But some of us are more anal about these thing than others are, so maybe it doesn't bother you that the bill is a couple degrees off or the logo is slightly off-centered.  More power to you - I wish they I didn't notice them. 

No, I have a weird obsession with symmetry, so I notice when things are off-center or crooked. Seriously, the Millennium Falcon used to completely freak me out as a child because it has a cockpit sticking out of one side, not the middle. I very much doubt that off-center cap buttons and crooked embroidery will bother many people more than it bothers me. I've pawed through plenty of stacks of Twins TC caps, where if the T doesn't line up perfectly straight dead center on the seam it hurts to look at; off-center TC logos certainly aren't common in my experience. (Though I've seen a few, and there's a case to be made that one is too many, my only objection to which would be that I've seen sloppy embroidery on Nike, Twins, and Zephyr caps too.)

I don't doubt that the defects you say can be found, even if I mainly have never found them. I've certainly rifled through hundreds of 5950s in my time, but I've never stocked a store with them or unboxed thousands at a time as some on the boards have done. What I wonder is, if someone were to crack open a box of 5950s right now, how many of them would exhibit the flaws that people complain about? We've all had the experience where something bad happens for the first time and we say, "Oh come on, every freakin' time!" That's how perception works: we're much better at remembering the exceptional than the ordinary.

That's all I'm really saying here: I've read the complaints. I've had some of the same complaints myself, but some of them don't come close to jibing with my own experience. Simply restating the complaints isn't persuasive, so I wonder whether there's anyone with access to a fresh box or two of caps who is willing to catalog the manufacturing defects of the caps therein.

But mainly, I want photos of the new cap style! Someone buy that newfangled Yankees cap in Trenton and post pics!

[grmuckrakers]

The only big problem I've ever had with a New Era was discovering that there were two of the little air holes side by side on one of the panels. Don't know how that ever got past an inspector, if there are any.

[Gothamite]

I'm going to try to head to a Yankee store in the next couple days; I can take a rough inventory.

But mainly, I want photos of the new cap style! Someone buy that newfangled Yankees cap in Trenton and post pics!

Me, too!

[CubsFanBudMan]

Thinking about this issue some more, I realized that I find many of the problems on discounted caps. When I lived in Florida, there was team store that had tons of teal Marlins caps -- and every one had some issue from Gothamite's list above. Same thing happened at the Tropicana Dome with old Rays caps. Couldn't pass up $1 caps, but it was impossible in that situation to find one that was 'perfect.'

Also, I don't think they were discounted because of flaws, but because of the outdated styles.

But I'm with BallWonk -- let's find that new style of 5950. I missed the Trenton thing -- they have them already, too?

[FiddySicks]

so I wonder whether there's anyone with access to a fresh box or two of caps who is willing to catalog the manufacturing defects of the caps therein.

Accually, I have to do that at work. We get boxes of hats, usually like 40 in a pack, and we have to check them for defects and stock them. We usually get about 5 or 6 in a pack that we simply cannot stock because theyre too defective. We have to write those defects down and send them back. But the thing is that I think no one has mentioned yet is that New Era caps are all handmade so that will add to the inconsistant sizing and logo placement. But like I said, New era hats are definately inconsistant, ive seen the flaws many times, but when you get a good one, it simply cannot be beat.

[no97]

I'd expect these types of problems with a handmade product like Cooperstown Ball Cap Co (although they're even worse, and by far). But a New Era cap is a manufactured product.

See, I'd go the other way. I'd expect more problems with a mass produced product than a hand-made one.

Think about it this way - New Era makes, say (and I'm ball-parking here) 500,000 Cubs caps, while Cooperstown Ball Cap Co. only makes 5,000 (and I think that's a high number, truthfully) of their most popular style.

Which one is most likely to be perceved as having more defects? New Era, simply because, in this scenerio, they are making 100x more product. If one in ten of each company is a bad ballcap, there are 50,000 bad Cubs caps out there, but only 500 bad Cooperstown caps... While the percentage might be the same, the pervasiveness of the product in the marketplace hurts New Era in this situation.

Moose

[BallWonk]

so I wonder whether there's anyone with access to a fresh box or two of caps who is willing to catalog the manufacturing defects of the caps therein.

Accually, I have to do that at work. We get boxes of hats, usually like 40 in a pack, and we have to check them for defects and stock them. We usually get about 5 or 6 in a pack that we simply cannot stock because theyre too defective. We have to write those defects down and send them back. But the thing is that I think no one has mentioned yet is that New Era caps are all handmade so that will add to the inconsistant sizing and logo placement. But like I said, New era hats are definately inconsistant, ive seen the flaws many times, but when you get a good one, it simply cannot be beat.

That's great intel. Thanks! That's a 13.75 percent defect rate, which does seem pretty high. (And I suspect that it doesn't take into account inconsistent sizing, since you can't eyeball that while you're unpacking a case.)

That said, you're right that in many ways 5950 has the best features of any cap. The bill is far and away the best ballcap bill in the world, at least as far as shape and proportion. The twill-weave wool is a fantastic material that stands up to abusive treatment and extreme elements. I've worn out any number of 5950s, but I've never had a seam come apart. Unlike most caps, the sweat band actually works.

I hope the putative new model at least keeps the shape, proportion, and non-pre-curved qualities of the 5950 bill. That's the one non-negotiable for me. I just absolutely hate the squared-off, pre-curved bills of basically every other ballcap model (including most New Eras, such as the current BP model). I'm willing to give innovation a chance, but the 5950 bill shape just cannot be improved upon.

[Gothamite]

I expect that the bill will stay the same. If anything, I expect the shape of the crown to change.

That 13.75 percent defect rate seems about right to me, considering that's the percentage of caps that were so defective that they couldn't sell them. Minor, "non-fatal" errors could push it even higher, right about in line with my experience.

It's frustrating, because I love the wool. But I can't order one online - it's too big a gamble.

[FiddySicks]

It's frustrating, because I love the wool. But I can't order one online - it's too big a gamble.

Same here. Same here. Its more of a hassle because I have to go through the entire rack to find a decent hat. Its more of a hassle, but to me its worth it.

[Gothamite]

I agree that when you find a good one, they can be very good.

I just wanted it acknowledged that finding a good one isn't easy.

[SabreGuy]

This thread is starting to sound like "Inherit The Wind: The New Era Case" or something! Calm down there, Clarence Darrow. Back it up, William Jennings Bryan.

I think we need to get back to what this thread is all about... wild, unfounded speculation regarding what next year's official MLB on-field caps will be like!

(On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications. I'm also NOT happy that this is what I think will happen.)

[Gothamite]

(On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications. I'm also NOT happy that this is what I think will happen.)

You could well be right. But I'd rather see it the other way around - the BP fit, with 5950 materials.

I think we'll both be disappointed.

[FiddySicks]

This thread is starting to sound like "Inherit The Wind: The New Era Case" or something!  Calm down there, Clarence Darrow.  Back it up, William Jennings Bryan.

I think we need to get back to what this thread is all about... wild, unfounded speculation regarding what next year's official MLB on-field caps will be like!

(On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications.  I'm also NOT happy that this is what I think will happen.)

Well I think thats exactly whats going on here. There was a story dropped and were giving our (very much extensive) opinions on the news, bringing up all of the goods and bads associated with this change. Personally I thin k this is one of the best "sports logos" related threads in a LONG time.

[SabreGuy]

(On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications.  I'm also NOT happy that this is what I think will happen.)

You could well be right. But I'd rather see it the other way around - the BP fit, with 5950 materials.

I think we'll both be disappointed.

Completely agreed... I think a lot of people will end up being dissapointed unfortunately.

Though I am a Sabres fan, so you have to take what I say with a grain of salt, having been so recently burned by the Slug fiasco. (Sluggate?)

HA, Salt... slug... I'm so funny.

EDIT: Oh, buckfan, I'm ALWAYS up for a good hat discussion. My collecting of hats is pretty much what lead me to be interested in this forum. I'm just trying to steer the conversation more towards the future than the current 5950... but only because we've had a few good 5950 conversations around here in the last couple months. Maybe there should be two threads. 1) How do you feel about the 5950? and 2) What do you think the new official MLB hats will be like?

[pooter]

On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications.

I hope that they do go with this type of cap. I am not a fan of the low-profile cap at all, along with the "baseball-slacks" look, but I do like the BP fabric of the caps.

Assuming that they do change the fabric, is it better to leave it in the 5950 high-profile style, and let the ones that like to destroy their hats by wearing them in the shower, cutting the backing material out, etc., and curving the brim with rubberbands to make them low-profile and appease fans of both the high and low-profile caps...

Or...making them the low-profile style and lose the high-profile crowd business?

[SabreGuy]

On that front, I'm still voting for the Kenny Rogers special... the batting practice fabric made to 5950 specifications.

I hope that they do go with this type of cap. I am not a fan of the low-profile cap at all, along with the "baseball-slacks" look, but I do like the BP fabric of the caps.

Assuming that they do change the fabric, is it better to leave it in the 5950 high-profile style, and let the ones that like to destroy their hats by wearing them in the shower, cutting the backing material out, etc., and curving the brim with rubberbands to make them low-profile and appease fans of both the high and low-profile caps...

Or...making them the low-profile style and lose the high-profile crowd business?

Well, here's the thing with that...

When the new BP style came out, I went right out and bought two of them. Problem is, I'm kind of between sizes, so I ended up getting Large/XL, and it's slightly too big. Also, I'm a low-crown kind of guy, and the crowns, even on the BP model, were still to high for me.

Now, the problem is... you can't fix that with that fabric. Wool, definitely. You can wash it, wear it in the shower, go dance in the rain, whatever... and the wool will shrink up nicely. Also cotton hats (like the Twins Franchise hats) will shrink a bit over time if you constantly get them wet. But that 100% man-made fabric just will. not. shrink. no matter what you do. Well, maybe you can melt it or something, I don't know... but really, you just can't do anything with it.

In fact, it's to the point now that I wear my BP caps every time it rains, because I know there's no chance of water changing the look of it in any way.

If the caps are made of BP cap fabric, but high profile, this completely eliminates the chance of any low profile cap fans ever wanting to buy them, because it is then impossible to fix them.