A nighmare for the ncaa

[JQK]

I have no side in the argument, and what is great about it, is that any way they did this, it was gonna end up wrong, and thus the flaw of the BCS is exposed. But the USC argument is tremendous, and they are the key to bringing this system down. They are number one in both polls, and are not in the Championship Game. That has never happend, nor should it. USC should be in that game. But that's not the point. Here is the point. If USC beats Michigan, USC will probably get the AP Poll to name them #1. The coaches Poll has to name the Sugar Bowl Champion #1. So, what will happen is that There will be Co-National Champions, and that is the reason the BCS was started. If the system that was created to end Co-National Championships, is in fact a CAUSE for having yet another pair of Co-National Champions, then what is it's point for being around? We are getting close to a Playoff... God i can smell it...

[Ez Street]

with there being like 20+ Bowl games, why not make a bowl game for the 2 worst teams in the nation. I mean when you have 6-6 teams (go K.U.) in bowls, why not reward the crappiest teams. That's why i think college football is the worst sport to root for. Just as you think you figured it out, you get the shaft.

[JQK]

I'm a traditionalist. I'm as traditionalist as you can get, andi want to keep the bowls, but as part of a playoff. It's not impossible, it can happen, and with the money involved, the NCAA will make sure any playoff will consist of the bowls. THe Bowl commities get their money, the NCAA gets their money, the schools get their money, and the fans get a true national champion. It's a win-win-win-win....

[yh]

OK, while we're on the topic of bowl game screw jobs, allow me to say a few words on behalf of the Cotton Bowl.  

Up until the 1986 season, the Cotton Bowl was one of the Big 4 New Years Day games.  The SWC champ was guaranteed a bid and the other slot was an at-large slot.  This was always one of the top-tier games and I can recall a few years in my own lifetime when the game actually had national championship implications.  However, in 1986 the top 2 teams in the country were independents - Miami and Penn State, and since the Rose, Sugar and Orange Bowls (the other 3 top-tier games), and there was no way to pit these two teams against each other in a "marquee" bowl, so the Fiesta Bowl stepped up and agreed to move their game (which had only recently been moved from Christmas week to New Years Day - I think they made the move in 82) to the Friday night after New Years and got both teams to accept a bid.  After that, the Fiesta Bowl just insinuated itself as a kingmaking bowl and now finds itself among the elite four.  

Ten years later, the SWC dies, four of its teams merge with the Big 8 and all of a sudden the Cotton Bowl, rather than having an opportunity to serve as an at-large destination for the best available teams, becomes a consolation prize for a non-BCS Big XII school.  Now, if the Big XII was willing to forgo the Orange Bowl in the interest of the BCS, wouldn't it make sense for them to cut permanent ties to the Cotton so it might also get a turn in the BCS rotation?  Hopefully, if the BCS expands its universe, which it likely will in order to include mid-major conferences, I certainly hope they bring the Cotton Bowl into the mix.  And then after that, if a sixth game is added, let's see some love for the Sun Bowl.  After all, the Cotton and Sun Bowls are the oldest non-BCS bowls in existence and much, much older than the Fiesta which has only been around since 71 or 72.

[NJTank]

The BCS failed it was supposed to halt these arguments. You realize if USC wins the Rose they will likely remain AP #1 and the LSU-OKlahoma winner will have the BCS title, so you will have a split title again and that is never good its time a 16-team playoff must be used.

You know what give me a few days I'll set up a 16-team playoff for the National Title and Ill find away to recreate the games and post the scores and do a championship myself.

[JQK]

I always considerd the Cotton higher than the Fiesta. The Big Four will always be The Rose, Orange, Sugar, and Cotton.

[jrh31584]

Here is my plan.  5 bowl sites are used.  For illustrative purposes, I am using the Rose, Fiesta, Cotton, Sugar and Orange Bowls, but the bowls will have to bid for the right to host the playoffs much as in the NCAA basketball tournaments.  8 Conference champions and 8 at-large teams, chosen by a selection committee, qualify.  No teams would be able to schedule games after Thanksgiving.  Here's what it would look like:

Pasadena Regional

December 6

#1 Southern California vs. #4 Purdue

#2 Texas vs. #3 Miami (FL)

December 11: Rose Bowl

USC-BSU winner vs. Texas-Miami winner

Tempe Regional

December 8

#1 Michigan vs. #4 Washington State

#2 Florida State vs. #3 Georgia

December 13: Fiesta Bowl

Michigan-WaSU winner vs. FSU-Georgia winner

Dallas Regional

December 8

#1 Oklahoma vs. #4 Iowa

#2 Tennessee vs. #3 Miami (OH)

December 13: Cotton Bowl

Oklahoma-Iowa winner vs. Tennessee-Miami winner

Miami Regional

December 6

#1 LSU vs. #4 Boise St.

#2 Ohio St. vs. #3 Kansas St.

December 11: Orange Bowl

LSU-Boise St. winner vs. OSU-KSU winner

Final Four: New Orleans

December 27

Orange Bowl winner vs. Rose Bowl winner

Fiesta Bowl winner vs. Cotton Bowl winner

January 1

Semifinal winners

[CC97]

The Canadian college football system works similar to your proposals, they have a playoffs, and each final is a different bowl.  Then the top two play in the championships.

Mind you the CIS is much smaller than the NCAA.

[JQK]

Jrh, i actually like that idea better...

And that way, you can still call it the bowl championship series, as the games would rotate through those bowls, and you'd get the playoff everyone wants. Damn i like it...

[ChicoStater]

Bowls are really starting to lose their tradition. The destruction of the Cotton Bowl is one example. I mean, when a bowl game has the words "dot com" in the title, tradition is screwed.

There will be 25 bowl games being played this season. 4 teams playing in bowl games are 6-6, 10 teams are 7-5 or in Cal's case, 7-6.

That means 28% of bowl-bid earning teams barely managed to win half of their games. Meanwhile, there is a 10-win team (Northern Illinois), a 9-win team (Connecticut), and two 8-win teams (Marshall and Toledo) sitting at home.

One of two things wrong here:

1) Screwed-up system that insures the 6th place team in the Pac-10 or the 5th place team in the SEC still goes to a bowl game, or

2) Too many bowl games and college football needs to stop whoring itself out for money and becoming the NFL Saturday.

[Roger Clemente]

I think they should just do away with the NCAA period.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[JQK]

What is with your hatred of the NCAA rog?

[ChicoStater]

Yeah. It's just messed up in 1-A football. I attend a Division II school (Chico State), and things work pretty well. The CCAA is going though a few changes (UC Davis is moving up to D-1, Grand Canyon is moving down a level, and Monterrey Bay State is moving in), but for the most part, things are going well.

[Roger Clemente]

Why do I hate the NCAA?

1. There's like a million teams.  (I know there isn't, but when looking through the scores one day I realized that all the 50 scores I saw was only about a quarter of what was being played.)  I find it impossible to care about any team at all (let alone follow all 956,000 of them) unless one went to the college, knows someone who currently goes to the college, or lives near the college.

2. It's practically the same handful of teams always winning anyways.

3. It's takes a hell of a lot of unnecessary sports ticker coverage for a league that isn't even professional.

4.  I've yet to see a uniform from any NCAA sport (basketball, hockey, football or baseball) that is even good looking.  (There may be some, but it's doubtful I'll find them.)

5. In spite of the fact that it's more common than a single point scored in basketball and isn't a professional league, it's worshipped more than a glazed ham at Anna Nicole Smith's house.  It's given a hell of lot more respect than any other league besides the NFL.

6.  The BCS sucks.  With like 50 odd bowl games, you can't tell me any of them are any more important than the others.  It's a farce.

7.  March Madness sucks primarily because it takes up practically all sports coverage throughout the month of March which pisses me off to no end.  Hell the Vanier Cup nor Memorial Cup make much of a blip on the Canadian sports psyche when they take place. (They do for maybe the one day they happen, but that's it)

It boggles my mind.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[ChicoStater]

1. There's like a million teams.  (I know there isn't, but when looking through the scores one day I realized that all the 50 scores I saw was only about a quarter of what was being played.)  I find it impossible to care about any team at all (let alone follow all 956,000 of them) unless one went to the college, knows someone who currently goes to the college, or lives near the college.

Well, news flash: There's a lot of colleges in the US. Almost all of them play sports. Therefore, there needs to be some sort of governing organization, which is what is done by organizations like the NCAA, NAIA, NCCAA (National Christian College Athletic Association), NJCAA (National Junior College Athletic Association), and the COA (Commission on Athletics, which governers junior colleges in California).

And that's the idea of what colleges you support- you support them as an alumni or local, or by knowing somebody that went there. I wouldn't give a rat's behind about Baylor if it weren't for the fact that my uncle went there. I support Chico as a student, and support Oregon as a (somewhat) local.

2. It's practically the same handful of teams always winning anyways.

So what? That's a compliment to the school's recuriting program.

3. It's takes a hell of a lot of unnecessary sports ticker coverage for a league that isn't even professional.

All the games get on Saturday Night, then you never seem them again. Give them one freakin' moment. You're basicially trashing everybody that doesn't like a team in the Top 25.

4.  I've yet to see a uniform from any NCAA sport (basketball, hockey, football or baseball) that is even good looking.  (There may be some, but it's doubtful I'll find them.)

How's that the NCAA's fault? Pick a bone with the institutions that actually design them.

5. In spite of the fact that it's more common than a single point scored in basketball and isn't a professional league, it's worshipped more than a glazed ham at Anna Nicole Smith's house.  It's given a hell of lot more respect than any other league besides the NFL.

Three reasons: 1)There are no other legitimate pro leagues in the US playing in the fall besides the NFL. 2) College rivalries are big things...stadiums of over 100,000 capacity wouldn't get filled up otherwise. 3) Nobody cares about the CFL, it took me three years of watching just to figure out the rules.

6.  The BCS sucks.  With like 50 odd bowl games, you can't tell me any of them are any more important than the others.  It's a farce.

Well...wait, never mind, I'll agree with you there...to a point. Some games are more important, as the member school get more money for being in them, and the bigger one are on national TV instead of cable.

7.  March Madness sucks primarily because it takes up practically all sports coverage throughout the month of March which pisses me off to no end.  Hell the Vanier Cup nor Memorial Cup make much of a blip on the Canadian sports psyche when they take place. (They do for maybe the one day they happen, but that's it)

Because it is a big thing, and not to mention Canadian college athletics sucks. I mean really, really sucks. I recall when Simon Fraser played in American Athletics...they barely held on at NAIA level, which is 4 levels down from NCAA Division 1-A.

Also try to remember there's more to the NCAA than football and basketball.

[Roger Clemente]

I did.

I still hate it for all the reasons I stated. Still will. Don't like the fact that I hate it? Tough.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[ChicoStater]

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

Defensiveness... ???

[Roger Clemente]

Defensiveness? Ha!  No, the NCAA just pisses me off for all those reasons mentioned.  When I want to watch other sports highlights, there's the NCAA.  I suppose I could have reduced it just to the one point where they take up so much room on the ticker.  But then I realized I hate these other things too.  I understand the workings of the NCAA.  I still hate it.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[DEAD!]

Here's my take on the BCS. I think the BCS computer format is a better system than the writers and coaches poll. The BCS has certain criteria and rules that everyone knows about before hand and as such, all teams should be aware of the consequences. (Don't insult the computer because you're using one right now!)

All this outrage is due to OK losing in the Big XII title game. Perhaps they should give more weight on conference title games when a team like OK loses. I guess a lot of people felt USC should be in the title game. Maybe if OK lost earlier in the season, we may not have had all this outrage.... then again maybe not. I don't think a playoff system is practical because the college football season is long enough on the players as it is.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/bloc/031208.html

[JQK]

Rog, i love ya man, your one of my favorite guys on this board.. but WOW man are you wrong... on every point are you wrong. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, i think the NBA is a huge waste of time and should be given as little coverage as possible, so we all have our likes and dislikes...

But wow.... wow.....