A nighmare for the ncaa

[random]

finally someone else here doesnt have the knee-jerk playoff reaction. the BCS is flawed yes. but that doesnt mean scrap the whole thing and start over.

again, i'm going to outline the arguments against a playoffs, argument no one here has even acknowledged

-Playoffs will ruin the traditions of postseason college football dont tell me that making Bowl games the individual rounds of a playoff will preserve tradition. the point of a bowl game is to be in essence a mini championship. a reward for a season well done. take Navy, they have a chance to win a well deserved trophy this year. in a playoff, they get nothing. take the Miami RedHawks, no chance at the BCS, but winning a bowl game says something. u went out on top, you won. this has always been what college football is about. now sure, 6-6 Kansas does not deserve to be in a bowl game more than 10-2 Northern Illinois but this can be fixed with reforming the bowl selection process. before any of this BCS stuff started there were a bunch of bowl game champions and the polls would decide which one was the best champion, the national champion. now, i realize that fans want the championship game, and thats good. but as much as the BCS blows, its still the best way to achieve that end without ruining the system. A win in the cotton bowl would mean nothing if it was just a stepping stone to being blown out in the Peach bowl or what have you. bowl games should be individual championships.

Playoffs WILL NOT end controversy this is one NO ONE has answerd. if its controversy you seek to eliminate, going to playoffs will not be the fix. If you have 4 teams in a playoff what happens when 5 teams finish with one loss or 3 with one loss and 5 with two losses? theres always gonna be a controversy, theres always gonna be a line that has to be drawn and a decision that has to be made. i laugh to myself thinking about all the angry Florida State and Ohio State fans crying when michigan is selected over them. with 8 teams, someone will get screwed, with 16, someone will get screwed. someone is always gonna get screwed. when you only play 11/12 games a season the chance is there for a lot of teams with similar records. wow, if only there was some sort of formula, some sort of selection process we could use to draw this line. wouldnt that be cool?

Playoffs will ruin the "perfect season" aspect that makes college football great only one team has every won the national championship with 2 losses, and it was in the early 60s. college football is beautiful in the fact that unlike the NHL, NBA or college bball the regular season means something. every week is a playoff. ask Southern Cal if the regular season matters, losing to Cal certainly f'd them up. a playoff would mean a hot handed team could streak thru at the end of the season and win an undeserved national title. Kansas State is good, and in a playoff this year they might win it all, but i'm sorry you cant lose 3 games and win a title, not in this sport. playoffs wouldnt just change the way championships were decided, they would change the very essance of the sport, the very objective of a season. if i were OU, USC, and LSU and i knew i had a playoff to fall back on, why would i risk injury in the last game of the season? why not play my backups the way NFL teams do? please, playoffs would destroy this unique and beautiful aspect of this sport.

in conclusion. there are my arguments against a playoff. i'm not even gonna mention the extra chance for injury in a longer season, or the reluctance of the schools to add several more games to the schedule. i just believe that everyone thinks "playoff" as if a playoff would magically fix all problems. fix the BCS sure, but dont ruin my favorite sport. the players dont want it, the coaches dont want it, the schools dont want it, the conferences dont want. i think its time that we forget about playoffs. people have been clamoring about it for decades, it has never happened and never will. controversy is part of this sport. and by the way, if we have a split championship it will not be the end of the world. it happend in 1990, 1991 and 1997. everyone got over it and a couple more kids got to wear fancy rings. its not a big deal

[gets down off soapbox]

[JQK]

-Playoffs will ruin the traditions of postseason college football BCS already has ruined any tradition the big bowls had. Argument invalid.

Playoffs WILL NOT end controversy Not looking to end controversy, they're will always be controversey, just looking for a way to have a national championship played for and earned instead of handed out by a computer.

Playoffs will ruin the "perfect season" aspect that makes college football great How so? A team or teams go into the playoffs undefeated, who's to say they won't come out of it undefeated? hmmm? You can't say that. Argument invalid.

[random]

actually my arguments are logically sound.

-i love the logic that because tradition has been partially corrupted we should just drop the whole thing. extend it to the sacred cow of this board, the NHL. hockey has become americanized, hurting its tradition. so lets go ahead and move the Maple Leafs to Houston and the Canadiens to New Orleans. after all, the tradition has been corrupted, so lets just get rid of it. and by the way ask the Maryland Terrapins and West Virginia Mountaineers if they would rather fight it out on new years day to cap off a great year or sit at home and watch Michigan and Miami fight for a spot in the final four.

-computers? did i not say reform the BCS? i dont like the computers, get rid of em, use the polls, they worked fine. every time the 1-2 matchup has been controversial the pollsters have seemed to "get it right" so drop the computers, use to polls. the fact that the current BCS system doesnt work because of computers does not mean rip the whole post season system to shreds for a money-grabbing playoff.

-yeh. the team that is best might win it all. or they might not. i want the assurance that the team that hoists the trophy is the best team. a hot streaky 11 seed with 3 losses cannot be a true champion. look at ncaa basketball. arizona was not the best team in 1997, syracuse was not the best team last year. it works for them because they focus of college bball is only playing good enuff to make it to march maddness, then the real season begins. that works for that sport, but college football is not about that. college football is the only sport where you can win or lose a championship in the 2nd or 3rd week of the season. who would care about the games early on if a playoff just decided it all. its not the way this sport worked. Florida State lost their season by losing to Clemson, LSU kept theirs alive by beating Georgia. none of these games would have meant crap if there was a playoff.

[JQK]

Why can't a team with three losses be champion? They beat the other team. If you beat theo ther team You Are Better. There are no doubts, there is no question. If you beat them on the field, it doesn't mater what records or stats say, your better than them if you beat them. That's all anyone wants. Is to have a Champion be crowned that earned it not in the polls but on the field!

[ChicoStater]

i love the logic that because tradition has been partially corrupted we should just drop the whole thing. extend it to the sacred cow of this board, the NHL. hockey has become americanized, hurting its tradition. so lets go ahead and move the Maple Leafs to Houston and the Canadiens to New Orleans. after all, the tradition has been corrupted, so lets just get rid of it.

Hockey hasn't become more Americanized. As far as I'm concerned, that's a myth. The original six only had two Canadian teams. The flow of teams has been going south, but only two of them came from Canada (Quebec to Colorado, and Winnipeg to Phoenix...and they were both only in the league since '79). But remember, four of those teams south of the Mason-Dixon line were expansion teams and another two moved from American cities (Dallas and Carolina).

Besides, you mixed it up...you'd move the Oilers to Houston for the bitter irony of the name. The Canucks and Flames would go to Seattle and Portland (either/or which way), the Maple Leafs would go to Milwaukee, the Senators would go to Baltimore, and we can send to Canadiens to Cleveland or New Orleans.

and by the way ask the Maryland Terrapins and West Virginia Mountaineers if they would rather fight it out on new years day to cap off a great year or sit at home and watch Michigan and Miami fight for a spot in the final four.

Under every system suggested, or in case you just didn't notice it, the other bowl games don't get taken away. They don't earn a spot in the playoff, fine, they can still play in another bowl game.

college football is the only sport where you can win or lose a championship in the 2nd or 3rd week of the season. who would care about the games early on if a playoff just decided it all. its not the way this sport worked. Florida State lost their season by losing to Clemson, LSU kept theirs alive by beating Georgia. none of these games would have meant crap if there was a playoff.

Champions aren't who win the most games. It's who wins the most games that count. If you can't handle the pressure in crunch time, you don't deserve the trophy. If you can't win two, three, four games in a playoff, you don't deserve the trophy.

Besides, this is football...every game counts, whether it's rivalry or playoff position. You think if Oregon had a playoff spot secured, they would dog it in the Civil War? Or if Georgia had a playoff spot secure, they would give a half-ditch effort against Georgia Tech? I don't think so.

[yh]

5. In spite of the fact that it's more common than a single point scored in basketball and isn't a professional league, it's worshipped more than a glazed ham at Anna Nicole Smith's house. It's given a hell of lot more respect than any other league besides the NFL.

Roger, YOU ARE EVIL!!!

Anna Nicole has lost like 50 lbs in the last few months.  Granted, she's got a way to go before she starts looking like she did in, say, 1992 or 1993, but still, these kind of comments arent' helping her self esteem any.  Shame on you.

[-kj]

Screw the NCAA's "tradition." Bowl games are meaningless. Either decide to have a real playoff so that the national championship means something, or don't call anyone "national champions." The previous system was bad, the BCS is just as bad, I-A football simply a ridiculous system designed to make money for a lot of people.

[Roger Clemente]

How can an opinion be wrong?  I hate the NCAA for all the reasons I listed!  If you like it, all the power to you.  Can you people not accept the fact that I hate the NCAA?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[shiznit1083]

Screw the NCAA's "tradition."  Bowl games are meaningless.  Either decide to have a real playoff so that the national championship means something, or don't call anyone "national champions."  The previous system was bad, the BCS is just as bad, I-A football simply a ridiculous system designed to make money for a lot of people.

If it is about the money, then my plot for a playoff and bowl system (I wrote it earlier in this post) would work perfectley, money and extra money would come in, plus there would be a true champion.

Whoa, am I tooting my own horn or what?

[JQK]

How can an opinion be wrong? I hate the NCAA for all the reasons I listed! If you like it, all the power to you. Can you people not accept the fact that I hate the NCAA?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

I do accept your opinion Rog... but... wow... i'd love to try and convert you.. bring you to the dark side...

March becomes alot more fun...  

[NJTank]

There is no more tradition in NCAA Football. The Bowls mean didley squat now. Going to Bowl used to mean something now with an ungoddly ammount of bowls it is so wtaered down taht 6-6 teams get bowl berths.

[yh]

The Bowls mean didley squat now. Going to a Bowl used to mean something now with an ungoddly ammount of bowls it is so watered down that 6-6 teams get bowl berths.

Try convincing the fans of the 53% of the D1A schools that don't get bowl bids of that.  

It's all relative.

Look, less than half of the D1A schools go to bowls every year.  A lower percentage of teams go to post-season in D1A than the NBA or NHL, and some of the teams in that league get to dance even if they have a losing record.  I have been a season ticket holder for the Missouri Tigers for 22 of the last 25 years (I was in Oklahoma for the 3 missing years) and during that span, counting this year, the team has received eight bowl bids.  Every single one of those games, with none of them "ranked" higher than 2 Holiday Bowl appearances, has meant a lot to the team and its fans.  Most ardent fans of college football understand that, with a few exeptions, there's only a select few programs that are going to challenge for a national championship and the huge bowl games on a consistent basis.  In my lifetime, only K State has managed to go from perennial doormat to consistent winner and even at that, this is the first time they've ever been to a BCS or BCS caliber bowl.  For the rest of us, a winning season and a chance to see our team play in a post season game is a reward and source of satisfaction.  It's also good for the game - regardless of prestige, a bowl game helps recruit players.  Without a healthy number of bowl games, you're going to see a number of schools, especially in the mid-major conferences which have a hard time getting bowl alliances as it is, deemphasize football, reducing D1A to maybe 30 top level programs.  Bowl games are an indispensible part of college football and part of what make it fun for a lot of schools, not just the big dogs.

Oh, and JQK, regarding your allusion to March Madness, if you really want to do it right, head to Vegas for the opening 4 days of the tournament and plop yourself down in the sports book of one of the large casinos.  Every game simultaneous and live on a huge screen right there in front of you.  Your eyes will fall out of your head.  It's awesome.

[JQK]

Oh, and JQK, regarding your allusion to March Madness, if you really want to do it right, head to Vegas for the opening 4 days of the tournament and plop yourself down in the sports book of one of the large casinos. Every game simultaneous and live on a huge screen right there in front of you. Your eyes will fall out of your head. It's awesome.

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarf.....

i gotta do that.....

[habsfannova]

Canadian University Athletics suck because we expect athletes to actually have required GPA's to make college.  GASP!

[CC97]

Canadian University Athletics suck because we expect athletes to actually have required GPA's to make college.  GASP!

Which is what makes NCAA a lot better to watch than the CIS.  

I like the idea of making athletes do as good as other students do (no athletic scholarships), but it would never happen with the NCAA because there's too much money invested into these sports, and so on... the colleges make a lot of money off of their professional-quality teams, having geniuses only on the team may not work.

I guess an easy way to compare things to everyone...

Canadians: We view the CHL the way the U.S. views the NCAA... both have a butt-load of teams, both are home to the future stars, both have amateur athletes playing for no money.

[ChicoStater]

How can an opinion be wrong? I hate the NCAA for all the reasons I listed! If you like it, all the power to you. Can you people not accept the fact that I hate the NCAA?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

If it's unfounded opinions, that don't factor in everything, and that have a very limited basis in reality, then no, I don't accept or respect it.

[Phil]

How can an opinion be wrong? I hate the NCAA for all the reasons I listed! If you like it, all the power to you. Can you people not accept the fact that I hate the NCAA?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

If it's unfounded opinions, that don't factor in everything, and that have a very limited basis in reality, then no, I don't accept or respect it.

As I learned in marketing, perception is reality. Roger's opinion is valid to anyone with his perception, and yes, an opinion can be wrong, but a basic like/dislike personal reason-based opinion that is as trivial as liking NCAA sports... I have a hard time saying either are wrong.

[Phil]

I feel I've got to stand up for Roger on a couple of these, because quite frankly I agree with him (gasp!).

2. It's practically the same handful of teams always winning anyways.

So what? That's a compliment to the school's recuriting program.

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that it can still make it boring. In any given year I can probably name 10 of the top 25 teams without ever seeing a game, score sheet, roster or anything.

3. It's takes a hell of a lot of unnecessary sports ticker coverage for a league that isn't even professional.

All the games get on Saturday Night, then you never seem them again. Give them one freakin' moment. You're basicially trashing everybody that doesn't like a team in the Top 25.

Saturday just happens to be a night when a lot of different sports are playing... I know I find it annoying waiting for a single NHL score.

4. I've yet to see a uniform from any NCAA sport (basketball, hockey, football or baseball) that is even good looking. (There may be some, but it's doubtful I'll find them.)

How's that the NCAA's fault? Pick a bone with the institutions that actually design them.

Who cares who designs them? It's still a legitimate reason not to like NCAA. The institutions who design them may happen to be Nike, may happen to be private, but in the end it's the school that approves the change.

5. In spite of the fact that it's more common than a single point scored in basketball and isn't a professional league, it's worshipped more than a glazed ham at Anna Nicole Smith's house. It's given a hell of lot more respect than any other league besides the NFL.

Three reasons: 1)There are no other legitimate pro leagues in the US playing in the fall besides the NFL. 2) College rivalries are big things...stadiums of over 100,000 capacity wouldn't get filled up otherwise. 3) Nobody cares about the CFL, it took me three years of watching just to figure out the rules.

1. The NHL for all it's problems, the NBA, and the MLB all play in the fall at some point, if not throughout the entire fall.

2. True... your one good point.

3. First of all, the CFL has nothing to do with this. Second of all... oooh boy, you're digging a hole you have no clue how to climb out of if you start dissing the CFL.

6. The BCS sucks. With like 50 odd bowl games, you can't tell me any of them are any more important than the others. It's a farce.

Well...wait, never mind, I'll agree with you there...to a point. Some games are more important, as the member school get more money for being in them, and the bigger one are on national TV instead of cable.

Agreed! What thrill do you get for winning one of the meaningless bowls other than to raise a meaningless trophy for finishing above .500?

7. March Madness sucks primarily because it takes up practically all sports coverage throughout the month of March which pisses me off to no end. Hell the Vanier Cup nor Memorial Cup make much of a blip on the Canadian sports psyche when they take place. (They do for maybe the one day they happen, but that's it)

Because it is a big thing, and not to mention Canadian college athletics sucks. I mean really, really sucks. I recall when Simon Fraser played in American Athletics...they barely held on at NAIA level, which is 4 levels down from NCAA Division 1-A.

There's reasons for this, not the least of which is the fact that most Canadians actually graduate with a significant degree. But the level of play in the average NCAA game sucks compared to the level of play in the average NFL or even CFL game. So the reason can't necessarily be because CIS sports suck.

Also try to remember there's more to the NCAA than football and basketball.

Like baseball? Or hockey? The College "World Series" gets less coverage than the Little League version. And if I want to watch the future of hockey, I'm watching the WHL, OHL, or QMJHL, not the NCAA. Sure, the Hobey Baker winners make it to the NHL, but the large part of the L is made up of Canadian Hockey League alumni.

[ChicoStater]

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that it can still make it boring. In any given year I can probably name 10 of the top 25 teams without ever seeing a game, score sheet, roster or anything.

I get my enjoyment out of watching quality games, not out of the variety of teams I watch. I'll be happy watching 15 games between the same two teams over 15 teams in two games each if the games are closer and more exciting. Blowouts stink and shouldn't be given TV time. Heck, I'm a 49ers fan, and by the time the 3rd quarter rolled around, I wanted a different game to watch.

Saturday just happens to be a night when a lot of different sports are playing... I know I find it annoying waiting for a single NHL score.

Kick back, relax, and enjoy the variety. It's the spice of life, my friend.

Who cares who designs them? It's still a legitimate reason not to like NCAA. The institutions who design them may happen to be Nike, may happen to be private, but in the end it's the school that approves the change.

Once again, the NCAA doesn't twist the school's arm to wear anything, so how can you blame the NCAA for that?

1. The NHL for all it's problems, the NBA, and the MLB all play in the fall at some point, if not throughout the entire fall.

2. True... your one good point.

3. First of all, the CFL has nothing to do with this. Second of all... oooh boy, you're digging a hole you have no clue how to climb out of if you start dissing the CFL.

1) I was talking exclusivly about football in this case.

2) Thank you.  

3) I'm the biggest Ricky Ray fan there is out there (you know, except for the fact he went to Shasta and I bleed Siskiyous blue  :: ), but even I know that the CFL is a horrendously complicated game over the American version, and can only be fully appreciated by hardcore football fans such as ourselves. If I hear "how can they have the ball on the 53?", "Why are they punting? It's only third down!" or "How the heck is the score 7 to 1?" one more time, I'm gonna scream.

There's reasons for this, not the least of which is the fact that most Canadians actually graduate with a significant degree. But the level of play in the average NCAA game sucks compared to the level of play in the average NFL or even CFL game. So the reason can't necessarily be because CIS sports suck.

I still think that the U of Miami could've beaten the Bengals a couple of years ago, but I digress. It's just the difference in Canadian and American attitudes and media coverage. It's taking the ball and running with it. I'll bet if the media started paying more attention to the Vanier Cup, the public would place more importance on it as well.

[ChicoStater]

By the way, been wanting to say this for awhile...love the Terry Tate icon, man...

"You kill the Joe, you make some mo', 'cause Triple T's up in this biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch!"