Toronto Blue Jays Concept

[patsox]

This is a perfect example of why...

MS PAINT RULES!!!

Dude, we try and give people advice on keeping up the effort, even if their stuff is totally lacking. We try and encourage it, because, no matter how bad they are, it just might take a few more bad concepts before they get the hang of it and then, boom, there's a real legitimate piece of work and, who knows, it could be the beginning of something great and great things coming from that person...

... You are not one of these people. Give up. Give up while there's still... well... there's no hope for you anymore... But don't let that stop you. Give up anyway.

Thanks for the C&C chief. I don't know why you seem to hate me, but please stop it. You don't even know me and all of your posts regarding me or my work are malicious. I don't hate anyone, not even you McCall.

[McCall]

This is a perfect example of why...

MS PAINT RULES!!!

Dude, we try and give people advice on keeping up the effort, even if their stuff is totally lacking. We try and encourage it, because, no matter how bad they are, it just might take a few more bad concepts before they get the hang of it and then, boom, there's a real legitimate piece of work and, who knows, it could be the beginning of something great and great things coming from that person...

... You are not one of these people. Give up. Give up while there's still... well... there's no hope for you anymore... But don't let that stop you. Give up anyway.

Thanks for the C&C chief. I don't know why you seem to hate me, but please stop it. You don't even know me and all of your posts regarding me or my work are malicious. I don't hate anyone, not even you McCall.

Are you Emo?

[patsox]

This is a perfect example of why...

MS PAINT RULES!!!

Dude, we try and give people advice on keeping up the effort, even if their stuff is totally lacking. We try and encourage it, because, no matter how bad they are, it just might take a few more bad concepts before they get the hang of it and then, boom, there's a real legitimate piece of work and, who knows, it could be the beginning of something great and great things coming from that person...

... You are not one of these people. Give up. Give up while there's still... well... there's no hope for you anymore... But don't let that stop you. Give up anyway.

Thanks for the C&C chief. I don't know why you seem to hate me, but please stop it. You don't even know me and all of your posts regarding me or my work are malicious. I don't hate anyone, not even you McCall.

Are you Emo?

No. Far from it. Are you? Do you like my concept? Do you have anything constructive to add?

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

An acquaintance of yours offers to make you a brand new sandwich you've never heard of before. He's kind of young but he has a lot of energy and you agree to let him make you lunch.

He serves you bologna on white with yellow mustard. You tell him that there's clearly nothing new about this, but you appreciate the effort and that maybe he should try harder in the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on white with brown mustard. You kindly thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on wheat with yellow mustard, except at this point, the bologna is spoiled and the wheat is moldy. You thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you the same spoiled bologna on the same moldy bread, but this time, he doesn't even give you mustard but strawberry jam instead. You thank him, and give him some pointed criticism for the future.

The 400th sandwich this friend makes for you has sauerkraut, applesauce, and a Snickers bar, and isn't even on bread but an English muffin. None of the individual ingredients make much sense in a sandwich on their own, and certainly have no business being together. At this point, you give up the goat and tell your acquaintance he should probably just stop trying. He refuses to see how obvious the mistakes he makes are and you've long since given up hope on ever hoping for a nice meal from him.

So who's the bigger sucker here? The guy making crappy sandwiches? Or the guy hoping for a good lunch?

[patsox]

An acquaintance of yours offers to make you a brand new sandwich you've never heard of before. He's kind of young but he has a lot of energy and you agree to let him make you lunch.

He serves you bologna on white with yellow mustard. You tell him that there's clearly nothing new about this, but you appreciate the effort and that maybe he should try harder in the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on white with brown mustard. You kindly thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on wheat with yellow mustard, except at this point, the bologna is spoiled and the wheat is moldy. You thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you the same spoiled bologna on the same moldy bread, but this time, he doesn't even give you mustard but strawberry jam instead. You thank him, and give him some pointed criticism for the future.

The 400th sandwich this friend makes for you has sauerkraut, applesauce, and a Snickers bar, and isn't even on bread but an English muffin. None of the individual ingredients make much sense in a sandwich on their own, and certainly have no business being together. At this point, you give up the goat and tell your acquaintance he should probably just stop trying. He refuses to see how obvious the mistakes he makes are and you've long since given up hope on ever hoping for a nice meal from him.

So who's the bigger sucker here? The guy making crappy sandwiches? Or the guy hoping for a good lunch?

Look dude, I fully understand what you are trying to get through to you and I respect you. You seem like as smart person. I just don't get why you just dwell on what is so bad about my concepts, rather than at least trying to point out the good. I understand you've given up on me, but I don't get why. I think there are some people that downright on this board (worse than me maybe) but I still try not to "give up" on these people. I try and help them make their concept better by pointing out "the good, the bad, and the ugly".

[McCall]

An acquaintance of yours offers to make you a brand new sandwich you've never heard of before. He's kind of young but he has a lot of energy and you agree to let him make you lunch.

He serves you bologna on white with yellow mustard. You tell him that there's clearly nothing new about this, but you appreciate the effort and that maybe he should try harder in the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on white with brown mustard. You kindly thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on wheat with yellow mustard, except at this point, the bologna is spoiled and the wheat is moldy. You thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you the same spoiled bologna on the same moldy bread, but this time, he doesn't even give you mustard but strawberry jam instead. You thank him, and give him some pointed criticism for the future.

The 400th sandwich this friend makes for you has sauerkraut, applesauce, and a Snickers bar, and isn't even on bread but an English muffin. None of the individual ingredients make much sense in a sandwich on their own, and certainly have no business being together. At this point, you give up the goat and tell your acquaintance he should probably just stop trying. He refuses to see how obvious the mistakes he makes are and you've long since given up hope on ever hoping for a nice meal from him.

So who's the bigger sucker here? The guy making crappy sandwiches? Or the guy hoping for a good lunch?

Pointing out the flaws of one great big, albeit little and whiney, attention whore. One thing that can bring people with the most opposite views together. I think it would be a great step towards bipartisanship in our government if both Republican and Democratic Politicians were members here and saw Patsox's "creations".

In that case, Patsy, may I call you Patsy? Keep up the G*d awful work. The very likelyhood of our nation's government depends on it.

Also, always using the emoticon does not make you look like a hard@$$.

[patsox]

An acquaintance of yours offers to make you a brand new sandwich you've never heard of before. He's kind of young but he has a lot of energy and you agree to let him make you lunch.

He serves you bologna on white with yellow mustard. You tell him that there's clearly nothing new about this, but you appreciate the effort and that maybe he should try harder in the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on white with brown mustard. You kindly thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on wheat with yellow mustard, except at this point, the bologna is spoiled and the wheat is moldy. You thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you the same spoiled bologna on the same moldy bread, but this time, he doesn't even give you mustard but strawberry jam instead. You thank him, and give him some pointed criticism for the future.

The 400th sandwich this friend makes for you has sauerkraut, applesauce, and a Snickers bar, and isn't even on bread but an English muffin. None of the individual ingredients make much sense in a sandwich on their own, and certainly have no business being together. At this point, you give up the goat and tell your acquaintance he should probably just stop trying. He refuses to see how obvious the mistakes he makes are and you've long since given up hope on ever hoping for a nice meal from him.

So who's the bigger sucker here? The guy making crappy sandwiches? Or the guy hoping for a good lunch?

Pointing out the flaws of one great big, albeit little and whiney, attention whore. One thing that can bring people with the most opposite views together. I think it would be a great step towards bipartisanship in our government if both Republican and Democratic Politicians were members here and saw Patsox's "creations".

In that case, Patsy, may I call you Patsy? Keep up the G*d awful work. The very likelyhood of our nation's government depends on it.

Good to hear. I'll try my G*d awful best to keep it up. Thanks for the advice.

[McCall]

An acquaintance of yours offers to make you a brand new sandwich you've never heard of before. He's kind of young but he has a lot of energy and you agree to let him make you lunch.

He serves you bologna on white with yellow mustard. You tell him that there's clearly nothing new about this, but you appreciate the effort and that maybe he should try harder in the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on white with brown mustard. You kindly thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you bologna on wheat with yellow mustard, except at this point, the bologna is spoiled and the wheat is moldy. You thank him, and give him some pointed and helpful critique for the future.

The next time, he gives you the same spoiled bologna on the same moldy bread, but this time, he doesn't even give you mustard but strawberry jam instead. You thank him, and give him some pointed criticism for the future.

The 400th sandwich this friend makes for you has sauerkraut, applesauce, and a Snickers bar, and isn't even on bread but an English muffin. None of the individual ingredients make much sense in a sandwich on their own, and certainly have no business being together. At this point, you give up the goat and tell your acquaintance he should probably just stop trying. He refuses to see how obvious the mistakes he makes are and you've long since given up hope on ever hoping for a nice meal from him.

So who's the bigger sucker here? The guy making crappy sandwiches? Or the guy hoping for a good lunch?

Look dude, I fully understand what you are trying to get through to you and I respect you. You seem like as smart person. I just don't get why you just dwell on what is so bad about my concepts, rather than at least trying to point out the good. I understand you've given up on me, but I don't get why. I think there are some people that downright on this board (worse than me maybe) but I still try not to "give up" on these people. I try and help them make their concept better by pointing out "the good, the bad, and the ugly."

Hello kettle. Your black... and, apparently Clint Eastwood.

[Korbyn]

jpslaphot22 told me this about making concepts -

Look at a lot of the posts here done by members who spit out two or three concepts a day. Those people aren't ready to use the software. Don't be one of those people.

Be patient, relax, and be willing to learn.

maybe some words to live by?

[mr. negative]

Seriously....all critisms aside.

I'm from the Toronto area and as a Jay's fan i'll say this; the special edition red Canada day jerseys they do are cool, but we don't need red on the regular.

Truth is that logo we had in 2003 (the bird wrapped around the red "T") was the ugliest thing ever.

What i'd like to see is a little bit more originality from the uniforms....they are really boreing right now. Maybe pin striping or blue buttons or SOMETHING!!

[patsox]

Seriously....all critisms aside.

I'm from the Toronto area and as a Jay's fan i'll say this; the special edition red Canada day jerseys they do are cool, but we don't need red on the regular.

Truth is that logo we had in 2003 (the bird wrapped around the red "T") was the ugliest thing ever.

What i'd like to see is a little bit more originality from the uniforms....they are really boreing right now. Maybe pin striping or blue buttons or SOMETHING!!

All I was trying to do was spruce up the uniforms and add some flair and originality, but I guess I failed.

[Epiphanic]

When I first saw this concept, the red outline POW!'d me right in the face. It was overpowering. My first impression of this was, "My god, this is hideous." These are the following reasons why I think you concept is not very good.

• The addition of the red outline is superfluous. It adds nothing to the overall design except adding red.
  
• The underline on the wordmark is two separate colors before and after the tail of the Y. Why?
  
• There's a hint of a TM symbol at the end of the wordmark. Do they really need to trademark their own jerseys?
  
• The front panel on the cap isn't symmetric.
  
• The color scheme of the nameplate is completely different from the color scheme of the number. Furthermore, they don't compliment each other.
  
• Your red outline is poorly done. Aside from the choppy edges, it's not even all the way around.
  
• The button-up portion of the jersey is cut off at the wordmark. How would a player put this on? They can't button it.
  
• The blue part of the piping on the legs don't go all the way down.
  

Another thing I've seen mentioned before and I agree with is don't use "I used MSPaint" as an excuse for putting out crappy work. Other people have used MSPaint and it looks fine (sometimes spectacular). You have to take your concepts seriously if you want us to do the same. Using myself as an example, here is a thread of how constructive criticism can help improve a concept. It's just a logo, but the the idea is still the same. Keep in mind I did everything in MSPaint at the time. It's not the sharpest thing (I've vectorized it in Inkscape to make it smoother), but acceptable concepts can be done with MSPaint.

[BallWonk]

Although I see from the thread that you're in another of your periodic fits of pique at anyone who points out obvious failings in your concepts, I'll nonetheless try to offer some constructive criticism here.

Mainly, I just do not understand the point of this concept. When I scan this uniform, all I really see is "Blue Jays plus red." Takes a second or third look even to notice that you've made the caps blue, because the red on the cap is so distracting. But why would anyone take the current Blue Jays look in its entirety, throw some red at it, and believe that the result is a concept that will satisfy either Blue Jays fans or baseball uniform buffs?

Which is not to say that I think you should eliminate the red or whatever. (I do, but since the entirety of your concept is "add red to the Blue Jays," saying "don't add red" is the same as saying "don't do this concept," which isn't a constructive thing to say, so I won't.) Until you offer us some explanation of what you hoped to accomplish and communicate with this concept, I can't offer any kind of informed judgment about whether your concept is a success. Please, with this and other concepts, offer a bit more explanation up front of what you were trying to do and how you believe this concept achieves that goal. Why did you add the red but keep the black and graphite? Why did you choose to mix very old uniform designs with current elements? Are you aiming this concept at people in Toronto, or Canadians more generally? Is this a concept that is meant to connect better with existing fans, or to expand the team's appeal among potential new fans? Is there some potential new aspect of team identity that you want to raise with this concept? And why do the pants have a narrow triple-stripe but the jersey is without any such decoration?

Until you give us more insight into your own thinking in creating this concept, "Jeezum crow, it sure is ugly" is the most useful criticism you're gonna get. Tell us what you were thinking, and maybe it will be apparent that this or that element that makes no sense right now actually comes out of this or that sensible design goal. Maybe this design succeeds on its own terms in ways that aren't visible until we can see what your terms are.

[musikology]

Patsox.

Since you're 17, I assume you're still in HS. Do you guys have any type of class that has computers running PS? If so, I think you could crank out some cleaner concepts. The board has real good templates for all sports. I've seen some other concepts from people your age that are more developed. Granted, if I used paint, I probably would have a tough time, but using Paint should not be used as an excuse for a concept that has no "Pop" to it.

From the standpoint that you do come up with concepts, albeit mentally confusing ones, I do applaud you. I haven't posted one sports concept, but my projects have been taking photos and vectorizing them in PS, very time consuming. I did enjoy the Jersey Wallpaper tutorial, it was a lot of fun. PStic has too much time on his hands.

But knowing how critical people tend to be on the boards, and seeing the quality of their work, you know what's coming the moment you post a concept. It's like hunting season, and all the graphic studs are loading up the double-barrel with you directly in the cross-hairs. I guess it doesn't faze you, cause you just keep on posting.

I really do look forward to the day that I see at least a clean vector concept from you, whether it has "pop" or not. At least then I would know that at least you have the tools at your disposal.

Good luck with your concepts, don't think I would have been able to wrap my brain around it when I was 17, but that was 20 years ago. Don't want to see anyone get kicked off the board, so keep your ego in check and don't blow up too much, just be ready for hunting season whenever you post.

[patsox]

I was trying to connect a few elements of the Jays' history without "GOING ALL THROWBACK ON ALL Y'ALL @$$3$"

The colors are from a combination of the Blue Jays' head/leaf logo from the mid nineties. The hat is a tribute to their first hat. The numbers and logo tie in with their recent history. The reason for red is to promote the team to Canada as a whole rather than simply Toronto.

[slapshot]

The reason the old Blue Jays logo had red in it was because it included a maple leaf and a baseball.

Yours has neither. So there is no point for the red, except for "just because".

[McCall]

I was trying to connect a few elements of the Jays' history without "GOING ALL THROWBACK ON ALL Y'ALL @$$33$"

The colors are from a combination of the Blue Jays' head/leaf logo from the mid nineties. The hat is a tribute to their first hat. The numbers and logo tie in with their recent history. The reason for red is to promote the team to Canada as a whole rather than simply Toronto.

I feel honored with your nod to me in your disguising of a****. Though you spelled a**ees instead of a**es. But it's your first time. You'll get the hang of it.

[Eye]

You seem to want to do well, Patsox, and I'll give you credit for that. In fact, I was on your side for a while, feeling that you would churn out something good someday. Boston FC certainly wasn't bad, but if you want to produce something good or even halfway decent, here is some advice. Ok, now here is a thread from a while back when I first started in this graphic design thing that we all enjoy. Now my concept in that thread isn't going to show up, but that is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. Now, I drew my own logos when I was at school towards the end of my junior year of high school. When I posted my concept I was thinking, "Nice, people will like this. My concept owns." Now, did my concept own? Hell, no. Did I have any idea what I was doing (remember, this was at the time when I just started out and was using Paint. I had no idea how to use a few of the tools properly, curved line, custom colors, etc.)? Hell no. Read the comments in that thread, Patsox. "The yellow was too bright" "My logos were unclean" Though, I didn't think my logos were unclean. Now I'm sure you know more than I did at that time. You know about custom colors, and all the tools in paint. At that time, I didn't. Granted, the Tampa Bay Rays took me over three months to complete because I drew all my logos and wordmarks out. Erased them (when they were still on paper) redrew them numerous times, to make sure they were even as best as I could, then scanned them to my cpu.

After that, It took me a loooooooong time to get rid of all the extra gray pixels after outlining it in black. Then I had to resize the logos to fit on the template, then make another outline in black where it disappeared after the resizing took place. My point is that my concept for the most part was clean. The main problems were the colors (which was the MS Paint, yellow that they give you to start out, along with 16 other colors) and watermark I had on there.

Yes, my concept took me about three months, like I said I started it towards the end of my junior year and didn't release it until the end of July. I started in April, then after school ended in two months, I finished it up in the summer. I know that you or anybody else wouldn't want to take three months on every concept you do, but to get it clean down to the very pixel, I did. To get my concepts clean, it certainly doesn't take me three months, and I don't really use Paint anymore, but I hope you see my point.

With enough time, you can make a clean concept, Patsox. My main piece of advice here is, do not post a concept until you are sure it is clean. Time is never an issue, right? You aren't doing these concepts for a customer right? If the answers to both of these are no, then what's the big deal in taking an extra few minutes, or checking it over and posting it a day or so later? The answer is there is no big deal, and at this point it is inexcusable for you to continue posting these subpar concepts.

I certainly improved from those Tampa Bay Rays days and you can improve too. You just have to be dilligent and have a keen eye for details.

Another thing, in that Rays thread of mine, there was probably one or two hole comments in there, but you have to try and see through them to get the constructive criticism as a whole from the rest of the people who have supplied you with the constructive criticism you want. That, or you can even ask again for constructive criticism from the poster who didn't supply the helpful advice you wanted, but you have to be polite about it. You are 17, Patsox, always act like an adult.

Hope this advice helps you. Now, I shouldn't really expect anymore sloppy work, right? Just work at your own pace to assure that your work is as good as it can possibly be, that's what I do.

With that said, put out quality work, and you'll get quality responses like this. With that said, I'll only respond to your work if you show maximum effort. Based on Boston FC, at least the logo, you have the ability to do this, so why you can't do it all the time is beyond me. Give it a shot.

-E.A.R.

[drevel]

I think it would look better with the outline in blue& not red.

[mr. negative]

Patsox I just wanted to state.....my attack was at Rogers (who owns the blue jays and their stadium) and the new look they came up with for the jays, not you.

Anyone who's taken a shot a changing up the jay's look on these boards are ok in my books, cause I think it's needed, badly!

That being said....to anyone who added red, not the solution in my books, unless that red is a maple leaf of some form.