The 5

[mania]

Exactly.

It's like the types that think it's freaking witty to type out Yankee$ with the dollar sign in green. There are plenty of reasons to hate the freaking Yankees. By all means, hate them. I do, but it's not related to their payroll, as much as they usually dominate the Rangers. But acting like you're some kind of noncomformist RAGING AGAINST THE SPORTS MACHINE posting on a damn message board is pretty sad.

If the Patriots cheating(that apparently was such a common occurance among SEVERAL teams that they were talked to in the offseason... admittedly, the Pats were stupid and arrogance to come out Week 1 after said talks, but still) bothers you THAT much, there's plenty of other things to devote your time online and Sunday afternoons to.

[AndrewPF]

Exactly.

It's like the types that think it's freaking witty to type out Yankee$ with the dollar sign in green. There are plenty of reasons to hate the freaking Yankees. By all means, hate them. I do, but it's not related to their payroll, as much as they usually dominate the Rangers. But acting like you're some kind of noncomformist RAGING AGAINST THE SPORTS MACHINE posting on a damn message board is pretty sad.

If the Patriots cheating(that apparently was such a common occurance among SEVERAL teams that they were talked to in the offseason... admittedly, the Pats were stupid and arrogance to come out Week 1 after said talks, but still) bothers you THAT much, there's plenty of other things to devote your time online and Sunday afternoons to.

:censored:IN A'

[In 5..4..3..2..1]

The Pats have had no competitive advantage from videotaping anything this year. The tape against the Jets was taken away at halftime. They could'nt have gained anything from it. This year is clean what they have done in the past was against the rule no matter how much everyone does it. It was wrong and they were punished. It's clearly in their rear view mirror and won't help any of you other peoples teams to keep bringing it up as if it has any bearing on this years season so shut it and just list your top 5.

[DDR]

1. Patriots

2. Colts

3. Steelers

4. Cowboys

5. Packers

And, um, do y'all still think they're cheaters? Cause, if they cheated to win those three super bowls, then their thus-undefeated season has to be a crock too, right?

At this point, it's pretty easy to summarize why people are still thinking that it's funny/relevant: inferiority complex.

Or it could be that some people just have a problem with cheaters...I'm just saying.

I hope I'm reading too much into this, but I really hope you don't think that anyone is inferior to you or your co-fans just because you happen to root for the greatest team ever assembled*...as though you have a damn thing to do with it.

Like I said, I hope I'm reading too much into your post.

He didn't mean it like that -- he meant it in terms of envy towards the team. Be honest, Greg, you and every NFL fan out there would love to have the Patriots as your home team. It's become an issue of envy towards the club, not anything else.

Incorrect. Perhaps this is what you meant: Every fan would certainly take the Patriots' level of success. I would love my Packers to be 6-0 and blowing everyone out, but I wouldn't trade the Packers for the Patriots under any circumstance, even if the Patriots moved to my hometown.

[PeytonManningRocks]

Of course it has (become an issue of envy). I was pissed when the Broncos pulled the last-second time out on the Raiders, but happy when my Bills did it to the Cowboys. However, I still recognized that play for what it was: cheap tactics. And just like you should be able to recognize your team for what it is: a bunch of dirty cheaters. It's okay to be honest about it.

I stopped being a Yankees fan (and a fan of baseball in general) because I was tired of the way they created an advantage over other teams. They couldn't win based on scouting and their farm system, so they instead chose to win based on money. Your teams has chosen to win both on scouting AND cheating. It's up to you whether or not you want to support that.

That said, my top five:

1. Colts

2. Cheaters

3. Steelers

4 - 32: Doesn't matter

22: Buffalo Bills.

dsgitlin, I agree totally with that, although the difference between the whole field goal, timeout rule is that it's not illegal in the rulebook (yet), while the Pats' filming thing was illegal.

I will say this, though....in the end, cheaters never prosper. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

[slapshot]

The cheaters didn't prosper. They got caught, and are paying/will pay (through draft picks) their punishment.

The Patriots are the best team in the league right now, hands down.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

dsgitlin, I agree totally with that, although the difference between the whole field goal, timeout rule is that it's not illegal in the rulebook (yet), while the Pats' filming thing was illegal.

That wasn't my point though. I thought what the Bills did on that play was uncouth, yet I still rooted for them.

What the Pats have done is far, far worse, yet many New England fans on this board have no problem sacrificing their morals to not only root for a cheating team, but to blindly defend or rationalize their cheating as well. Personally, I've never liked the team, and the cheating just adds to that. However, I do hope every single Patriots fan out there is happy for Barry Bonds and all of his accomplishments. Consistency isn't paramount in sports fandom, but it's nice to see.

[DDR]

dsgitlin, I agree totally with that, although the difference between the whole field goal, timeout rule is that it's not illegal in the rulebook (yet), while the Pats' filming thing was illegal.

That wasn't my point though. I thought what the Bills did on that play was uncouth, yet I still rooted for them.

What the Pats have done is far, far worse, yet many New England fans on this board have no problem sacrificing their morals to not only root for a cheating team, but to blindly defend or rationalize their cheating as well. Personally, I've never liked the team, and the cheating just adds to that. However, I do hope every single Patriots fan out there is happy for Barry Bonds and all of his accomplishments. Consistency isn't paramount in sports fandom, but it's nice to see.

That's the thing for me, too. It's one thing that it happened. What irks me, is the overall sentiment from Bostonians that those people that got on them were dicks for doing so, and now the Pats are showing everyone. Not only do we have people here "[defending and rationalizing]" as dsgitlin says, case in point, we have Bill Simmons' article today about the "eff you" touchdown, and how the Pats are sticking it to everyone who called in to question their tactics. I'll be honest: I didn't really care about the stealing signals issue until Pats fans started defending them so vehemently. Boston fans, you had us. We all felt for you. Even after the Pats won a couple Super Bowls, we rooted for the Red Sox because you deserved some happiness. We bought into the story, the Curse, the fairytale ending. Then you all became so darn insufferable. You may not even realize it. It may be a subtle change. But a change nonetheless. Can you guys just go back to your September 2004 outlook?

[Audiodrama]

dsgitlin, I agree totally with that, although the difference between the whole field goal, timeout rule is that it's not illegal in the rulebook (yet), while the Pats' filming thing was illegal.

That wasn't my point though. I thought what the Bills did on that play was uncouth, yet I still rooted for them.

What the Pats have done is far, far worse, yet many New England fans on this board have no problem sacrificing their morals to not only root for a cheating team, but to blindly defend or rationalize their cheating as well. Personally, I've never liked the team, and the cheating just adds to that. However, I do hope every single Patriots fan out there is happy for Barry Bonds and all of his accomplishments. Consistency isn't paramount in sports fandom, but it's nice to see.

That's the thing for me, too. It's one thing that it happened. What irks me, is the overall sentiment from Bostonians that those people that got on them were dicks for doing so, and now the Pats are showing everyone. Not only do we have people here "[defending and rationalizing]" as dsgitlin says, case in point, we have Bill Simmons' article today about the "eff you" touchdown, and how the Pats are sticking it to everyone who called in to question their tactics. I'll be honest: I didn't really care about the stealing signals issue until Pats fans started defending them so vehemently. Boston fans, you had us. We all felt for you. Even after the Pats won a couple Super Bowls, we rooted for the Red Sox because you deserved some happiness. We bought into the story, the Curse, the fairytale ending. Then you all became so darn insufferable. You may not even realize it. It may be a subtle change. But a change nonetheless. Can you guys just go back to your September 2004 outlook?

Our September 2004 outlook when our baseball team never stood a chance? Hell no. Before this century, baseball and football were futile in this town, and right now we plan to enjoy the exact opposite. Either look away, or do the fun thing and let us play the so-called "villains." Makes it more enjoyable for everyone if you have someone to root against.

[slapshot]

I'm not defending or rationalizing the cheating. It was a stupid thing to do, and might not even have been necessary. The team got caught, didn't even deny it, and got punished for it. That's the difference between the Patriots and Bonds...the Patriots never denied anything. And it was the coaches who were technically cheating, not the players. Unless they prove more about the whole defensive-players-getting-miked-thing, which is still just hearsay.

By now, most people outside of New England think Boston fans are insufferable. Probably so, considering the media onsaugh brought about by ESPN, Bill Simmons, Fox, etc., and the throngs of fans who have to travel to other cities to see the teams because it's too expensive to see them at home.

Boston and Patriot-haters are always going to think the games are tainted. Whether the games are close or not, there will always be that air of doubt. I guess the only way to prove that the Patriots are a dominant team that isn't cheating is to blow everyone away.

Take away the Jets game, for example. Say the Patriots are 5-1 instead of 6-0. Look at the games since week 1. Are they any less dominant?

Didn't think so.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Take away the Jets game, for example. Say the Patriots are 5-1 instead of 6-0. Look at the games since week 1. Are they any less dominant?

Didn't think so.

That's not the point. And they weren't even cheating in that game for the purposes of winning that game. They were cheating in that game so they could cheat in a future game! We haven't even brought up the Pats jamming radio signals against multiple teams over the past few years.

It's not the fact that the team is good -- we all recognize that. It's in front of our faces. It's not that they're winning -- it's how they're winning. It's a different type of dislike than the Cowboys or Broncos of the 90's. Those teams were dominant too and also attracted hordes of bandwagon fans. But did you ever get the feeling that those teams were rubbing it in? Or playing dirty? Or having millions of fans -- already obnoxiously propping up the baseball teams of their respective cities -- rationalizing that dirty play?

Quite simply, the level of hubris of Boston sports fan is unprecedented. The Celtics were dominant too -- but did anyone hate Bill Russell or Red Auerbach like they do Bill Belichek?

And if it's worth anything, I've given up on Bill Simmons. Reading him is like reading a blog about how awesome Wal-Mart is. It's just not any fun.

[Jigga]

You know, it's really sickening that y'all think that everyone that thinks the Patriots cheated are just "haters." I don't hate any team, city, or player. I love my team, I don't give a :censored: about the Patriots or Boston. Tom Brady is an all-time great, Bill Belichick is an all-time great, that offense may be the greatest EVER, and that franchise is the absolute model of consistent greatness in the salary-cap era of the NFL.

However, they :censored:ing cheated. I don't care how much you Bostonians or Patriots fans love your team, they cheated and I'm not going to overlook it. When they beat my team by 30 points or so in a few weeks, I won't deny they are light years better, but I will still remember them as cheaters...just like most of you will remember Barry Bonds.

Don't equate success with integrity, mmkay?

[DDR]

Just checked out the Power Rankings on espn.com. For the record, they have Jax 5 and GB 6. But I saw this little tidbit at the end that was kinda funny. In talking about the 32nd ranked Dolphins, the article remarks that the spread this week for the Pats game is 17, and that might be a tad low. And that was my exact first thought. An NFL spread of 17 points, that might not cover the differential? Unreal.

[Island_Style]

I have no clue how anyone can have the Cowboys in their top 3. That is just insane to me.

Why would anybody rank teams after the team at #1 is clearly above everyone else by several MILES? Anywho, here's my (cough) five.

Are we that quick to forget about the Buffalo game? Alot of teams can beat Dallas.