George Mitchell Report

[Davey]

As for Bonds we all knew lol. Its just do dam bad he had to cheat to get his way into the record board. After all Ruth did it on Beer and Hot dogs lol.

You know what though? Let's spin this 180 degrees and speculate - how many dingers would Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays or Hank Aaron, have hit had they been on the juice? 800? 900? 1,000?

I dunno, I cant see Babe as a muscular man *scratches head and thinks*... or sober

[charger77]

I have not read this thread, but here is my 2 cents on the topic.

I was under the assumption that the report would name players that had failed drug tests.

This report seems to be nothing but unproven accusations and hear-say.

This just seems to be a modern day McCarthy hearing, A lot of wild accusations with out much if any proof (yet) to back up any claims.

A trainer giving information on a player is not evidence enough for me. I would need to see a failed drug test.

Dan

[pcgd]

I kinda agree.

Although I know this happened and I'm not denying that a large number of these players most likely did steroids, I'm sure there is more than one on here that is innocent and got caught up and now their playing days are tainted forever.

The guys with checks and receipts is one thing. But just to throw a name out there with no proof is another.

Just because they are famous athletes, they still deserve "innocent until proven guilty" in my book. Sometimes its harder when we don't like a player (Bonds, Clemens, etc) but they still deserve due process even in the court of public opinion.

[BaltimoreFan]

Bud Selig should resign or be fired over this. He won't, but he should be.

I agree its ridiculous how long this went on for under his watch. Now he wants to be the hero that stops it, when its his fault it got so big. This should have happened at least 9 years ago when McGwire was reported to have used steriods during his 70 HR season. I remember it being reported around August or so of that season, but it basically got swept under the rug because Selig wanted to win the fans back. Now its so bad that I imagine the majority of players use (many many more than listed in the report). So you can't really do anything about the tainted records, because there is too many. I can't believe how easily Selig is getting off for this.

[STL FANATIC]

Steroids weren't illegal in baseball when a lot of these guys were taking them, right? What's the point of releasing their names, then?

Oh, I dunno... maybe because they were illegal under federal law, which at least I still consider to be at least a slightly higher authority to answer to...?

And even if your views are warped and you don't, they've been noted as illegal in baseball since 1991.

Borrowing this from a Cards board...

1990: Steroids became illegal in the U.S. in 1990. As such, the commissioner technically would have the powers, under the best interest of the game, to issue punishment to any player proven to have taken steroids, thereby violating federal law. Despite claims that they weren't illegal "in baseball" the fact is, if something is illegal off the field, it remains illegal on the field. Just because there's no official rule anywhere in the rulebook that forbids brandishing a firearm and shooting an opposing player dead, we all know this is not allowed because it's illegal. There is no need for the MLB rulebook to restate every single thing that's not allowed on the field. Once steroids became illegal federally, they, by default, became illegal in the game as well.

1991: Steroids were officially banned from baseball in 1991, included as just another drug in a list of drugs banned. Punishment and treatment are both specifically prescribed for violators. Testing was not established.

2002: MLB established a specific steroid policy, separate from the drug policy. No formal testing was established. Survey testing would occur in 2003 and if more than 5% of results were positive, formal testing and weak "penalities" would be put in place.

2003: 5% - 7% test results were positive, triggering a new policy in 2004.

2005: Current policy put in place.

[Mac the Knife]

And there you have it - a player found in violation of law, convicted or not, by the Commissioner's office is subject to such discipline as the Commissioner may impose.

Ergo, he's empowered to impose suspensions, fines, or whatever on whatever players are in that report provided they're still within MLB's jurisdiction.

[Lee.]

As for Bonds we all knew lol. Its just do dam bad he had to cheat to get his way into the record board. After all Ruth did it on Beer and Hot dogs lol.

You know what though? Let's spin this 180 degrees and speculate - how many dingers would Babe Ruth, or Willie Mays or Hank Aaron, have hit had they been on the juice? 800? 900? 1,000?

Ruth was on the juice, his just happened to have been diluted with a -ton of bourbon.

[charger77]

And there you have it - a player found in violation of law, convicted or not, by the Commissioner's office is subject to such discipline as the Commissioner may impose.

Ergo, he's empowered to impose suspensions, fines, or whatever on whatever players are in that report provided they're still within MLB's jurisdiction.

But wernt most of these players found in violation through hear-say or 2nd hand accounts? This was not a list of players that failed drug test, just a list of players who have been rumored to have taken steroids.

[DEAD!]

I kinda agree.

Although I know this happened and I'm not denying that a large number of these players most likely did steroids, I'm sure there is more than one on here that is innocent and got caught up and now their playing days are tainted forever.

The guys with checks and receipts is one thing. But just to throw a name out there with no proof is another.

Just because they are famous athletes, they still deserve "innocent until proven guilty" in my book. Sometimes its harder when we don't like a player (Bonds, Clemens, etc) but they still deserve due process even in the court of public opinion.

.... yes they do... but something came to my mind about the people who were being questioned, like the trainer who claimed Clemens took steroids. Weren't they under oath? Sure they could have pleaded the 5th like McGwire or perhaps, they could have went to jail like Bonds' trainer. Wouldn't they also run the risk of committing perjury as well?

[OB33]

Can someone tell me how Kevin Duckworth ended up in the Mitchell Report?

[49er Fan 16]

I dont know anything about " performance enhancing drugs" steroids, human growth hormones, or whatever these guys were using. The question I have is, can these substances improve hand eye coordination? Obviosly being stronger can help a player hit a ball harder from the strength standpoint, but what other advantages do these drugs give a player?...sorry if it is a stupid question, but I would like to understand this a little better

[TFoA]

"Roger Clemens should not be lumped in with Barry Bonds"

lol @ Bob Costas. I wonder how many journalists are about to come to the defense of the Rocket?

[DEAD!]

"Roger Clemens should not be lumped in with Barry Bonds"

lol @ Bob Costas. I wonder how many journalists are about to come to the defense of the Rocket?

.... of course you can't lump Roger Clemens with Barry Bonds... Roger Clemens has never hit a home run....

[Spezza19]

I can see Troy Glaus in this, but having Gregg Zaun's and Howie Clark's names mentioned in this for the Jays? They must be taking some weak ass jucie, especially Howie Clark.

lol

[TFoA]

"Roger Clemens should not be lumped in with Barry Bonds"

lol @ Bob Costas. I wonder how many journalists are about to come to the defense of the Rocket?

.... of course you can't lump Roger Clemens with Barry Bonds... Roger Clemens has never hit a home run....

But he knows how to use that lumber.

[DEAD!]

"Roger Clemens should not be lumped in with Barry Bonds"

lol @ Bob Costas. I wonder how many journalists are about to come to the defense of the Rocket?

.... of course you can't lump Roger Clemens with Barry Bonds... Roger Clemens has never hit a home run....

But he knows how to use that lumber.

... point well taken

[Mac the Knife]

Cl*m*ns and B*nds shouldn't be lumped together in one respect, and one only: Cl*m*ns didn't lie about it under oath, to a grand jury, under penalty of perjury. B*nds did.

Otherwise, they're the same.

[cappital92]

*r* w* j*st r*pl*c*ng v*w*ls w*th *str*cks n*w?

Are we just replacing vowels with astricks now?

[BaltimoreFan]

I dont know anything about " performance enhancing drugs" steroids, human growth hormones, or whatever these guys were using. The question I have is, can these substances improve hand eye coordination? Obviosly being stronger can help a player hit a ball harder from the strength standpoint, but what other advantages do these drugs give a player?...sorry if it is a stupid question, but I would like to understand this a little better

I've heard that argument before. No steriods don't improve hand eye coordination. Really what they do (each thing is really different) is improve your strength and help you recover from injuries faster. I've heard people "defend" steriods by saying it doesn't improve hand eye coordination. Which is true, but that doesn't mean it has minimal or no effect on playing ability. The strength probably turns many long fly balls into homeruns. I remember hearing that Bonds never hit a homerun over 450 feet before he supposed took steriods (I don't know the year off the top of my head). After that period, he hit multiple homers over that distance, at an age when players decline. I don't have the stats so I can't say whether or not that is true. Really the best analogy I've heard is that roided players would be like NBA players playing with 9 foot rims.

[McCall]

Here's my new Steroids Policy I'm injecting ( ) into this:

- First Positive Test: 81 GAME (not days) Suspension. That's half a season.

- Second Positive Test: One Full Calendar year Suspension and forfeit of all statistics from day of positive test or punishment handed out, dating back One full year. (example: you test postivie or are handed your suspension on July 4th, all your stats dating back to July 4th of previous year are wiped out.)

- Third Positive Test: Lifetime Ban and forfeit of all statistics.

This may seem harsh, but hey, you inject it and you're rejected. You use, you lose. You... well, you get the idea. This would strike some fear into those thinking about using, and rightfully punish those who do choose to violate the law.