Olympic Torch Protest

[JustForFun]

Yes, gingerbreadmannn once again proves the failure of the U.S. public education system. Now that that dead horse has been flogged ...

What really gets my goat is the way the U.S. has let in Chinese paramilitary teams, ostensibly to "protect" the torch, but really to crack down on any dissent. WTF? It's not as if China doesn't already pwn the U.S. economy - we're letting them police us too?!

[gingerbreadmann]

Yes, gingerbreadmannn once again proves the failure of the U.S. public education system. Now that that dead horse has been flogged ...

You know, it is really getting old. Give it up. Please.

[friarcanuck]

Political beliefs should remain out of sports, especially the Olympics. If you don't like what's going on either don't participate or do something about it.

Holding a sign up in the middle of downtown San Francisco doesn't count, cause the leaders of a nation on the other side of the world don't give a rat's ass what some 'smo in the middle of the US thinks.

Huh?

You're trying to tell me you believe holding up a sign is going to save a Tibetan from being persecuted by the Chinese government?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Political beliefs should remain out of sports, especially the Olympics. If you don't like what's going on either don't participate or do something about it.

Holding a sign up in the middle of downtown San Francisco doesn't count, cause the leaders of a nation on the other side of the world don't give a rat's ass what some 'smo in the middle of the US thinks.

Huh?

You're trying to tell me you believe holding up a sign is going to save a Tibetan from being persecuted by the Chinese government?

That's not much the point then, is it? By your logic, no one should ever do anything unless they are the exact agent that can either cause or stop something else. That's a pretty narrow view of what's possible in the world.

[friarcanuck]

Political beliefs should remain out of sports, especially the Olympics. If you don't like what's going on either don't participate or do something about it.

Holding a sign up in the middle of downtown San Francisco doesn't count, cause the leaders of a nation on the other side of the world don't give a rat's ass what some 'smo in the middle of the US thinks.

Huh?

You're trying to tell me you believe holding up a sign is going to save a Tibetan from being persecuted by the Chinese government?

That's not much the point then, is it? By your logic, no one should ever do anything unless they are the exact agent that can either cause or stop something else. That's a pretty narrow view of what's possible in the world.

It's not really a narrow view, because I am well aware that it only take a few people to "get the ball rolling" for a cause. It's more of a lack of faith on the hippie movement.

They can whine and complain all they want, but when's the last time you saw a hippie get their hands dirty?

[DEAD!]

They can whine and complain all they want, but when's the last time you saw a hippie get their hands dirty?

When I saw the hippie make the tye dye shirt....

[footballfiji]

In all honesty, either way Tibet is pretty much screwed. Before the Chinese take over in 1959 Tibet was ruled by a feudal caste system. A system, thought to be allowed by Buddhism, yet completely against the teachings of Buddha.

This is from a paper from Chi-Wen Yao:

Recent uprisings in Tibet have raised international attention because of the spotlight on the Beijing Olympics. However, the Tibetan independence movement is nothing new. While we see the Dalai Lama tour the world seeking autonomy for his people, we should define who these people are, and then define Tibetan independence altogether.

Prior to the Chinese takeover in 1959, Tibet was a theocratic state based on feudalism. There was a social caste system where people were born into serfdom. The people born into serfdom, then, were taught the Buddhist notion of karma and reincarnation; that they were suffering from the sins of the past life. However, there was a way out of the caste system. One third of the boys in Tibet were forcibly taken by the monastery and could live in the life of harmony, along with a chance for molestation and rape.

The lamas and the feudal landlords, who owned the lands of Tibet, did not represent the majority of the population, who were illiterate and poor. The Drepung Monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, and it lent money to the peasants at an interest rate of 20 percent to 50 percent. In theocratic feudal Tibet, torturing methods such as eye gouging and amputation were common as punishments for thieves and runaway slaves. This is quite the contrary of the peaceful teachings of Buddhism, isn't it?

Most of us in the West have a Shangri-La view of the old Tibet, but that is hardly the case. Old Tibet was not a state based on peace and harmony, but of oppression and torture. We enjoy the religious freedom we have, and therefore should not hypocritically support a sectarian state of Tibet, especially when it is a state that allowed slavery and torture.

Reverting Tibet to its old days and restoring power to the Dalai Lama means Tibet will continue to be backward and oppressive. If we continue on the current trend, the Tibetans have only two limited options: live under oppressive Chinese rule or live under oppressive lama rule.

Western proponents of Tibetan independence often argue on the grounds of human rights. Well, the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights forbids torture and slavery, which were completely legal in the lama-ruled Tibet.

If you support both human rights and Tibet's independence, as I do, I implore you to support a democratic Tibet, not a theocracy.

Don't know if the URL still works

[DG_ThenNowForever]

It's not really a narrow view, because I am well aware that it only take a few people to "get the ball rolling" for a cause. It's more of a lack of faith on the hippie movement.

They can whine and complain all they want, but when's the last time you saw a hippie get their hands dirty?

How old are you? If it's any less than 65, I'd be embarrassed to call your peers "hippies." Protesters come in all shapes and sizes. For many of them, taking to the streets and demonstrating for something they care about is a pretty big deal. I'm not saying that protesting = results, just that I"m glad people care enough about stuff to do it.

[friarcanuck]

It's not really a narrow view, because I am well aware that it only take a few people to "get the ball rolling" for a cause. It's more of a lack of faith on the hippie movement.

They can whine and complain all they want, but when's the last time you saw a hippie get their hands dirty?

How old are you? If it's any less than 65, I'd be embarrassed to call your peers "hippies." Protesters come in all shapes and sizes. For many of them, taking to the streets and demonstrating for something they care about is a pretty big deal. I'm not saying that protesting = results, just that I"m glad people care enough about stuff to do it.

For your information, I'm 30. Shocking isn't it, that I have the same views as an ignorant old coot, but still so young? My comments were to point out that protesting the Olympic torch isn't going to shame the Chinese into leaving Tibet.

"Hey! People keep protesting at every stop the torch makes on it's way to China for the Olympics. We MUST be jerks! Call the Dalai Lama and let him know we're sorry. Invite him back to his home and make sure a fruit basket is waiting for him."

[gingerbreadmann]

It's not really a narrow view, because I am well aware that it only take a few people to "get the ball rolling" for a cause. It's more of a lack of faith on the hippie movement.

They can whine and complain all they want, but when's the last time you saw a hippie get their hands dirty?

How old are you? If it's any less than 65, I'd be embarrassed to call your peers "hippies." Protesters come in all shapes and sizes. For many of them, taking to the streets and demonstrating for something they care about is a pretty big deal. I'm not saying that protesting = results, just that I"m glad people care enough about stuff to do it.

For your information, I'm 30. Shocking isn't it, that I have the same views as an ignorant old coot, but still so young? My comments were to point out that protesting the Olympic torch isn't going to shame the Chinese into leaving Tibet.

"Hey! People keep protesting at every stop the torch makes on it's way to China for the Olympics. We MUST be jerks! Call the Dalai Lama and let him know we're sorry. Invite him back to his home and make sure a fruit basket is waiting for him."

Well they must be doing something right or having some effect if the officials had to change the route because of the protesters. They are not ignored, and this kind of opposition is happening all over the world wherever the Torch goes. Not saying it will influence China to do anything differently(it won't), but they are having some effect on this situation in some way and added together the protesters are at least being acknowledged.