CCSLC APPRENTICE: CHALLENGE 3

[Cola]

EDIT: ahh, why bother...

[maz]

I dont think Chestnutz is alienating us. Hes telling the truth and saying what needed to be said. Those on our team who were present, with the exception of him and dp, didnt make an effort this round.

I'll admit - I didnt do anywhere near as much as I could have. Forget the presentation, someone had to do that. And im sure anyone on the team would have if they were the only one around at presenting time.

Could he be taking it differenty? Could he just grin and bear it? Sure, but he isnt. Either way, I dont like members of the other team telling one of our teammates what they should be feeling or saying when what they are already saying is within reason.

[chestnutz]

I already said, I'm not trying to in any way shape or form rip other members of my team. I love my teammates and understand all of us as a whole could have done better. Yes, some of the reason our presentation was poor was my fault. But what I'm saying is that it's unreasonable in my opinion that I'm the one being blamed for all of it. I tried my damnest to get everything in order in time. Did everyone do what they could've in order to listen to me? Not at all, which is why I'm saying all the faults in the presentation shouldn't be blamed on me.

If I'm against the general consensus to the judges, so be it, that's why they're judges. I'm just fighting for what I believe.

[Brian in Boston]

LOGO

Prodigy - While both marks are outstanding, I feel that the Devin Hester logo works on more levels. The "D" and "H" elements represent the initials of his given name. The fact that the "D" and "H" are incorporated into a stylized wing references his nickname, the Windy City Flyer. The manner in which the logo's elements are rendered communicate speed, agility and elusiveness - all key attributes of Devin Hester's game. Frankly, it is a rare brand-mark that can cohesively fit so many elements into a single logo. This mark achieves it seamlessly.

CLOTHING / GEAR

Prodigy - By a slim margin. While I didn't think that incorporating the Hester logo into a phoenix graphic was necessary on the skyline t-shirt, that was my only quibble with Prodigy's line of products. By contrast, there were a few elements of the Optimus clothing line that brought down their score in my opinion. I felt the slogan on the hooded sweatshirt and t-shirt were superfluous. Placing of the logo on the shorts was a mistake, as it would be covered by a shirt that wasn't tucked into the waistband. I would have opted to depict Pujols as batting on the t-shirt.

ADS

Optimus - They played it safe by going with a single ancillary application and making sure that there were no glaring errors in that piece. While it could be argued that an image of Pujols in mid-swing would have been more dramatic, the overall layout was well-executed. I also felt that the slogan worked here. By comparison, Prodigy's work was brought down by several niggling errors. The logo in the top ad was blurry/fuzzy. Spacing between letters of the copy was off. The manufacturer's name on the bottom ad was spelled wrong. If you're moved to include an element that the challenge doesn't specifically call for, you'de better make sure that it is perfect. Optimus did, Prodigy didn't.

PRESENTATION

Optimus - They win this portion of the challenge by a landslide. Prodigy's presentation was unacceptable. Frankly, the team is lucky maz1960 stepped-up with what he did.

CHALLENGE WINNER

Optimus. Their vastly superior presentation tips the scales in their favor.

Frankly, time was not managed well by Prodigy throughout this task, which resulted in the team having to scramble to complete the project at the end. When chestnutz6 went down with an allergic reaction, the team was doomed. There was too much hemming and hawing about what athlete and/or logo to use early on in the design process. Sure, everyone wants a chance to be heard, but once a concept presents itself that is clearly superior... well, that design must be embraced. In my opinion, the Devin Hester logo established itself fairly early on as a superior piece of branding, yet the trigger wasn't pulled to select that logo as the direction in which to go until the very end. As a result, time that could have gone towards developing other aspects of the presentation was frittered away.

[heernumurr]

Just thought I'd check in and give a bit of info about the ad and t-shirt. I really just wanted to go with something a little different.

In the ad I wanted to represent the idea that Pujols is a cut above, that being the best doesn't mean being flashy, that he has got substance over style - as someone already mentioned. Maybe I didn't put it across as well as I hoped, but I wanted to show that we don't meed to tell you he's the best; you can see for yourself.

[pcgd]

OPTIMUS

Logo

It seems quite a few of my fellow board members like the Pujols 5 logo, but I'm not such a fan. The elements are fine (crown and number) but I think its just too, for lack of a better word, pointy. I think it could have been accomplished much better without the points on the side and simply going straight down. I think both teams get into one design and just start tweaking, instead of taking the overall concept and starting over. A variety of options of 5 with a crown I feel would have revealed some of the issues in this particular design. I don't mean to say that its a bad logo, just a bit pointy for me and I think it could have been much better.

Clothing

The use of the logo on the clothes is very good. The designs of all clothing is nice as well. I'm not a huge fan of the placement of the 5 logo on the shorts, but overall you guys did an excellent job. I really like the fielding shirt, although I would have liked to see a picture of him right as the pitch is released. He has a very unique pose as the ball is hit that would have fit very well to make the point that he's more than a bat. He's got to be one of the only players that you can do a silhouette of his fielding position and you'd instantly know who it was.

Tagline

Wasn't a requirement, but seeing that both teams did it I'll critique. "Baseball Royalty" works very well for Prince Albert. My only concern is that it seems like a series of ads. I'd be expecting to see a King A-Rod or Queen Finch version of the clothing next. Its not a big deal, it works well.

Ad

Again, not a requirement, but both teams did it. Everything is ok on this, but a better photo would have worked wonders. Either that or cropping the photo tight.

Prime

Logo

I honestly loved this logo from the moment I saw it. It could have been refined a bit more, but it just works on so many levels. The initals, although aren't hidden, still are nice because they aren't just out there. The wing works perfectly for his nickname.

Clothing

Not bad at all. I like how you guys mixed a lifestyle series in with a performance series. The skyline is a nice touch (I love skylines). There could be some concern with the large logo placement, but for the market, the trend is definatly going towards bigger graphics on shirts. Not just the belt prints (all over prints, your first design) but large graphics. Think 80's/90s. One issue I have is showing the football shoe from that side. I would have flipped the shoe so the DH logo appeared to be flying backwards as it should. I think you'd find if developing htis package, this logo would not appear on the left side of anything. YOu'd want that logo to always be facing the correct direction. And even if it was, you wouldn't be showing it the wrong direction on an ad or a presentation.

Tagline

"Catch Him if You Can" works perfectly for a speedster such as Devin Hester. My concern (if this were real life) would be trademark problems with the film "Catch Me if you can"

Ad

I like the second ad much much better. The photo is perfect, the effect is nice. Not a huge fan of the type treatment, If this was a digital sketch for an actual ad, nicely done. AS a final piece however, there are too many issues to just say "Great work" Misspelling, blurry.

This is going to be hard to choose. I feel like Prodigy pulled it out overall, but there are some extreme issues that have allready been mentioned. It might not be fair to dock a team because of problems out of their control, but in the real world, if that stuff happens you need to notify someone before hand. I personally would have been more understanding if we saw a post the night before or at very least, earlier in the morning stating what happened. But sometimes you need to be prepared for a client saying "I don't care, show your stuff now" You guys didn't have to post everything AT noon, just by noon. It could have been posted 2 days ago, or at least been ready. The misspelling of the company name is pretty bad.

Saying that, I don't think Optimus did enough to win despite all that. Not that it was a poor effort, I just can't pick Optimus the winner when I would have gone with the other team's package overall if it wasn't for all the presentation and other errors.

Unless its a real issue, I'm going to withhold a vote unless a tiebreaker is needed.

For now I'm voting: PUSH.

GFB, PM me if you need an actual vote from me.

[slapshot]

I like the way BiB handled his critique, so I am going to use the same format...

LOGO

To be honest, none of the logos really makes me want to go out and buy something. Neither feels as iconic as the old "Shaq" logo or the Air Jordan silhouette. I think the Prince Albert logo is clunky and too pointy. At all small size you only see a shape, and the detail that separates the 5 and the crown is lost. The Devin Hester logo works much better at multiple sizes. It is a better looking logo than the Pujols one, but I feel it falls into the tribal tattoo category and wouldn't hold up on its own in a few years when that fad ends.

ADVANTAGE: PRODIGY

CLOTHING/GEAR

I think there is more versatility with the Pujols logo than the Hester one. The Pujols collection works very well with the miultiple silhouettes of Pujols, and you can instantly make the connection between the figure and the logo when you see them on the same piece of clothing. The layout of the logo also lends itself to be placed on any article of clothing or apparel, whereas the Hester logo needs to face the same direction all the time, so it would not always work on the opposite side of footwear, for example.

ADVANTAGE: OPTIMUS

ADS

The Pujols ads are interesting because they don't requre any tagline. Just a simple picture of Pujols, the logo, and the Nike logo. They let the image speak for itself, although I think the composition could have been more thought out. The Hester ads just show laziness (ironically). Good choice of showing Hester from the rear, and making him color does make him stand out from the rest of the picture. But between the out-of-focus detail, the misspelling of the brand name in the web address, and the oversight of including the endorser wearing a competitor's product is inexcusable.

ADVANTAGE: OPTIMUS

PRESENTATION

Optimus, by far. Prodigy doesn't really have presentation, except for what Maz put together.

CHALLENGE WINNER

OPTIMUS

Both teams need to manage their time and delegate assignment better. While the Devin Hester logo was completed earlier, the failure of integrating it into the other projects was the downfall. So much potential was wasted when Chestnutz went out sick, but before then he should have taken more initiative to complete the project. Prodigy could have spent some more time refining the logo, maybe having more input into its final look, but the team did step up with the overall presentation.

[Ted Cunningham]

OPTIMUS

...

Prime

...

I don't mean to interject in the judging, but the above cracked me up.

[GFB]

The judges have made their decision:

OPTIMUS is the winner!

Chestnutz, please select 2 fellow team members to go into the board room with you...

[chestnutz]

That sucks.

I pick flak50 and Sgoalie. I'm sorry, I have to pick 2 people, and have to go with them. No offense to either of them at all. My reasoning is below.

Neither of them were very active compared to the rest of the team. Besides offering some small input on other people's concepts, and Sgoalie's Derek Jeter logo, the only thing they did was list several potential players to use. They seemed to disappear nearing the deadline, which I think everyone can agree really killed us in this challenge. Honestly, it seemed like they didn't try too hard to contribute everything they could for our team. I came up with 5 or so different logos for different players, trying to come at this challenge from every angle, seeing what worked best. Overall, I think I made as many concepts as the entire team combined. There's no doubt in my mind I tried my very hardest throughout this challenge, and I definitely took a lot of time out of my schedule to contribute to my team.

So is it completely my fault, that if I come up with several deadlines throughout the week, not many (including the two above) listened to me and came through? As I stated earlier, this isn't real life, where a boss has actual leverage on his workers. This is over an online internet forum, where all I can do is hope that people come through. If they don't, it's my job solely to do it all? Is it any wonder our team was so disorganized at the end? Sure, I suppose most of the blame goes to the PM, however unfair it is. But if I worked my ass off the entire week, and when my deadlines weren't reached at all (off by several days often), when everyone is rushing in the last hours I have to do everything, after going to a hospital? IMO, I don't think that deserves a firing, but that's just me.

(If I'm coming off as arrogant at all, it's completely unintentional. If you knew me in real life you'd know I was the most humble teenager in my town, but I just don't want to get kicked out of this competition and am fighting to stay in).

[scottysprings]

I can't deny I wasn't as active as I have been in past challenges but I put in as much time as I could into the challenge. I hate making excuses but I had quite a few things going on outside of the boards that kind of limited the time I could put into it. In addition to my Jeter concept I also proposed a Rip Hamilton logo and put time into making sketches for LaDainian Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson logos that I never got to posting because my scanner isn't working. That being said, I don't think my inactivity is what caused the team's loss. I don't think proposing more logo designs or an ad would've helped us win because that's not where we lost cred with the judges- our presentation and organization was our downfall. Collectively as a team we've had trouble putting out our presentations by the deadline, it's always a mad rush to put it together and hope for the best, and it happened to us again..

[pcgd]

OPTIMUS

...

Prime

...

I don't mean to interject in the judging, but the above cracked me up.

Ah sorry...I've been working on a couple graphics at work that are called Optimus and Prime for the last couple months.

[fkaKrock5cent]

Well, I understand. Good run guys.

[GFB]

So Chestnutz, why didn't you delegate the tasks you had to accomplish? For example:

I would have set a deadline for picking a player to design. Then after that, I would have delegated the remaining tasks among your team to make sure that everyone is being useful and helpful. 3 people on the logo, 2 people on apparel, and one person responsible for ads/presentation...

The delegation technique is a very flexible system that allows you, as task manager, to correct any bumps on the fly. One of your apparel members can't do the job, then pull someone off of the logo team. Now if you happen to lose the contest, you can point out that so and so didn't pull his weight on the team. It shouldn't be the "Wait for Devin to finish the logo and then throw everything together last minute" team.

I wish Optimus and Prodigy would at least give the delegation technique a shot...

The fact is, you didn't keep the team moving through stages. Even if you did set deadlines that no one listened to, then go and choose for them. You're the team LEADER, not the team CHEEREADER.

[chestnutz]

Ok, so am I fired?

[fiasco!]

Ok, so am I fired?

I'm not leaning that way, but you'd be best served by answering the questions.

You did the majority of the work, and did a fine job, I think the main problem was that an athlete wasn't picked right off the bat. Not everyone is going to like the choice, but that's your job to make the decision. Given the short deadline, that's got to be the first task, before any designing of anything. Pick the subject, then start designing. I understand that you are a kid and that some unforeseen problems arose in your real life, and I empathize with that. That's why you are not getting my vote to be fired. I don't really have any questions to the other two you picked. I re-read through the thread to check on the level of participation, and it's basically a coin flip as to who's getting my vote.

[chestnutz]

So Chestnutz, why didn't you delegate the tasks you had to accomplish? For example:

I would have set a deadline for picking a player to design. Then after that, I would have delegated the remaining tasks among your team to make sure that everyone is being useful and helpful. 3 people on the logo, 2 people on apparel, and one person responsible for ads/presentation...

The delegation technique is a very flexible system that allows you, as task manager, to correct any bumps on the fly. One of your apparel members can't do the job, then pull someone off of the logo team. Now if you happen to lose the contest, you can point out that so and so didn't pull his weight on the team. It shouldn't be the "Wait for Devin to finish the logo and then throw everything together last minute" team.

I wish Optimus and Prodigy would at least give the delegation technique a shot...

The fact is, you didn't keep the team moving through stages. Even if you did set deadlines that no one listened to, then go and choose for them. You're the team LEADER, not the team CHEEREADER.

You're right, that probably would have been a better idea. But why am I taking the heat for not using that method? No other PM has used it, so why are you just telling me this? I realize maybe we could've used a different method, but it's not like other PMs haven't had trouble managing their teams either. If given the opportunity, I would probably go back and use that method.

I'll definitely agree that some of the presentation faults were because of me, but the whole team could've done a lot to help as well. But to fire me could be going too far. I've done my share of things in this competition so far, and did a whole lot in this event. You said that judges would be looking at how a person has done the whole competition and not just the one event. I'm not sure if just this fault in presentation should deserve a firing for me.

[GFB]

If the judges who haven't pmed me their elimination choices could please do so by 3 o'clock tomorrow (Tuesday) That's be great...

I'll announce who has been eliminated and start the next challenge tomorrow evening...

[GFB]

Well, the judges have made their votes...

Chestnutz, you badly mishandled the Task Manager position. However, you have narrowly survived to live another day... somehow...

fkaKrock5cent, you did not show enough effort in your team's thread, and because of this, you have been fired...

[Cola]

should we expect the next challenge tonight as well or will that wait until tomorrow?